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Polish - Vikings relations


Lukasz Edited by: Lukasz    Mar 3, 2008, 04:40am /  #1
Yesterday I have discovered that we had very rich Viking-Polish Realtions.

I just wanted to put all articles in one place ... (in Polish)

jomsborg.pl/korzenie_en.html

there were good times

Olav Tryggvason's Saga says like that about Jomsvikings' campaign to Norway: "They had 20 ships from Skania [souther Sweden] and 40 ships from Vendland [Pomerania and Poland]. The king of Vendland was in this time Burisleif" (Boleslaw the Brave of Poland). Saga says Boleslaw was the father-in-law as well Sigvald, the jarl of Jomsvikings, as Sven Forkbeard - the king of Denmark and later conqueror of England - and the most famous of them, Olav Tryggvason, the king of Norway. According to Saga, Olav has spent 3 years in Poland (with his father-in-law, Boleslaw) and had there a lot of friends.

That's how the Jomsvikings legend grew up.
Some of the Danish islands were attacked by Slavic pirates so often, that they have been depopulated at the end; later they have been settled again by Slavs from Pomerania. Danish invasions (with distinctly repressive character), like this from year 1043, shows that Vends (Slavs) were not easy neighbours for the Vikings; at the same time, when Scandinavian Vikings pillaged the West Europe, they own territory was pillaged by Vends.
In the book The Viking Art Of War (Chapter 'The Vikings and their neighbours), Paddy Griffith writes:
"To the south-east of Denmark lay the Wends (Vends) or the Slav tribes, who were in many ways just as effective raiders and traders as the Vikings themselves".
"The Slavs were always under threat of attack from the Vikings as well as the Franks."
"They also gave as good as they got , in military terms, sacking Hedeby in 1000 and harrying Denmark, Gotland , Oland and southern Sweden to such an extent that the Western Baltic was sometimes called Mare Rugianorum after the Slavic pirates of Rugen.
The prevalence of treasure-hoarding in southern Sweden during the 1000s has led modern archeologists to believe that the threat was indeed a very serious one, and the Icelandic sagas themselves often seem to assume that "Vikings" in the purely piratical sense were almost as likely to be Wends (Vends) as Scandinavians."
According to our present knowlage, we can suppose that the team of pirates from Jomsborg was mixed, Slavic - Scandinavian, but after 1000 the Slavic element among the Jomsvikings was in majority.

Olaf Tryggvason's Saga says also, that Olav's father-in-law, Burisleif, has take a part in compaign of emperor Otton agains Danes and took part in battles near Danevirke. In this expedition was with him Olaf, his son-in-law. If it was a true, name "Burisleif " define rather Mieszko (Mieczyslaw) - father of Boleslaw, because he took part in this compaign with Otton. Because Jomsvikingasaga and Olav Tryggvason's Saga were written down in XII/XIII century, true and legend are mixed together. At this time, scandinavian vikings weren't so strong anymore, and the main centre of piracy at Baltic Sea were slavian sea-shores (including Wolin).
All of that, act on an imagination of Icelandic writers.


when we look on R1A distribution ... it can be true that some Slavic tribes (Weneds Pomeranians, Kasuhubians) participated in some Viking "European trips" we all know how Vikings trips looked ... some famous nooble Scotish families are R1A ... So we have more "realtives than we thought ... ;-)

Haplogroup R1a - The R1a lineage is believed to have originated in the Eurasian Steppes north of the Black & Caspian Seas. This lineage is thought to descend from a population of the Kurgan culture, known for the domestication of the horse (circa 3000 B.C.E.). These people were also believed to be the first speakers of the Indo-European language group. This lineage is found in central & western Asia, India, and in Slavic populations of Europe.1 Haplogroup R1a also appears in Scotland, and is the haplogroup of the great Gaelic warrior, Somerled.


R1A

I have some interesting Videos about some "Slavic" - "Vikings" traditions or legends in Poland.



Viking Festival in Wolin (where Polson goes this year)





I am not expert in issue of Slavic - Viking contacts but when we look on information we have, it look much different than I thought it was.

btw it is possible that some of our ancestors joined Vikings in their trips ;) just look on our hooligans ;)


porta   Mar 3, 2008, 07:23am /  #2
Of course they had good relations, vikings where trading with a lot of counties in Europa. And Poland was one of the best nations to trade with.
There must be a reason us norwegians are very popular in Poland :)

Lukasz   Mar 3, 2008, 02:51pm /  #3
this text is interesting:

http://www.ancientworlds.net/aw/Post/415852

The ties between western slavic tribes, especially Poles and the vikings, especially Danes are well known mostly because of the archeological researches and scandinavian sagas.


Some wariors from the area of modern Poland were even joining the vikings while many vikings served as mercenaries on the court of first polish rulers.
One of the most interesting matters of the Viking-Slavic history is Jomsborg (today Wolin island and city) in Poland.


A slavic settlement where the Danes build a fort became a home of famous Jomsvikings who were most feared wariors renowned for their honour and their courage. They were well known on the whole Baltic area and feared by all the vikings who were coming back home from long journays with their spoils. Altough some historians claim that they were slavic pirates, there are evidences in the scandinavian saga's that scandinavian element was strong if not dominant. Today most of historians agree that Jomsvikings were the mix of Scandinavians and Slavs who formed in Jomsborg famous viking society often called "Jomsviking League". In the 11th century majority of Jomsvikings were Vends/Vinds (scandinavian word for Slavs) - especially after many of Jomsvikings were sluaghtered in unsuccesfull invasion of Norway


The vikings were calling Poles (in the 10th century a strong strong slavic tribe which was conquering surrounding slavic tribes) "Vinds". Altough "Vinds"/"Vends" was the word which was describing all the western Slavs in the area of Baltic Sea.
The territory occupied by the western Slavs was a Vindland. Its ruler, the polish prince Mieszko I of the piast dynasty was known as Burizleif king of the Vindland.


Mieszko I ruler of Poland or in scandinavian version Burizleif king of the Vindland had 3 daughters, one of them married Sven Forkbeard king of Denmark, their famous son was Canute the Great. So, the mother of Canute the Great was the sister of the first polish king Boleslav the Brave, who even gave Canute a contingent of polish wariors for his invasion of England.


ohhh yes they were our ;-)
Thereafter for the chiefs of the Jomsborg vikings was filled and drunk the largest horn to be found, and of the strongest drink...(...)




and here is full saga text:

http://www.stavacademy.co.uk/mimir/trygvason.htm

Crow   Mar 3, 2008, 03:05pm /  #4
Lukasz wrote:
Lukasz

Thank you


Polson   Mar 3, 2008, 03:58pm /  #6
Lukasz wrote:
Viking Festival in Wolin (where Polson goes this year)

Hehe ;) Yeah i may go there again this year (as well as Gliwice (Silesia) and Warsaw (my first time to the capital city))
I've been to the Viking Festival of Wolin at least 2-3 times, and always enjoyed it ;)
One of the video you gave Lukasz, shows a battle, and i swear they don't cheat, they really fight, btw i have vids of last year's festival...
And just so you know, there's a Viking metal band from the Faroese called Týr who turned one of their movie clips there, the song is Regin Smiður

Btw, i thought a few times about starting a Polish-Vikings relations thread...good you did Lukasz ;)

Grzegorz_   Mar 3, 2008, 04:07pm /  #7
Lukasz wrote:
Boleslav the Brave, who even gave Canute a contingent of polish wariors for his invasion of England.


:) :)

Lukasz Edited by: Lukasz    Mar 3, 2008, 06:58pm /  #8
Grzegorz_ wrote:
:) :)


I see G. you are interested.

So lets present English King with Polish origin who came to England as "Viking"

Canute was a son of the Danish king Sweyn Forkbeard and the Slavic princess, Saum-Aesa, (in accord with the Monk of St Omer's, Encomium Emmae and Thietmar of Merseburg's contemporary Chronicon), daughter to Mieszko I of Poland, and lent the Scandinavian name Gunnhilda by the Danes. Canute, was an heir to a line of Scandinavian rulers central to the unification of Denmark , with origins in the shadowy figure of Harthacnut, founder of the royal house, and the father to Gorm the Old, its official progenitor.


n summer 1015, Canute's fleet set sail for England with a Danish army of 10,000 in 200 longships. Among the allies of Denmark, Boleslaw the Brave, the Duke of Poland, and relative to the Danish royals, lent some token Slav troops, likely to have been a pledge made to Canute and Harald when they "went amongst the Wends" to fetch their mother


It was his empire

sses

and it is our Canute ;)

sas

If you want more:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Canute_the_Great

Lukasz Edited by: Lukasz    Mar 3, 2008, 08:10pm /  #9
Bratwurst Boy wrote:
Bratwurst Boy


He was half Pole half Danish and I don't have problem with it :) I see you have ...


According to your Germanic map ... just decide to which DNA group you (Germans) belong : R1A or R1B and later we can discusse LOL ...

osiol   Mar 4, 2008, 03:18pm /  #10
There have been so many changes in culture, as recorded in the archaeological record throughout European pre-history. Some of these changes will be about cultural borrowing and/or innovation, others will have been movement of population. Vikingness was an innovation in its time!

There have been numerous languages of different groups spoken across Europe since ancient times, some of them unrelated to Indo-European. Slavic is an IE language, meaning that if Slavic has had unbroken continuity since the palaeolothic, so has Germanic, Albanian, Greek, maybe Celtic, in part Italic...

Ozi Dan   Mar 6, 2008, 03:08am /  #11
Fascinating Lukasz

Thanks a lot for the information - really enjoyed it


Lukasz Edited by: Lukasz    Jun 10, 2008, 04:43pm /  #13
here are some answers

isthatu2   Jun 10, 2008, 07:08pm /  #14
OMG,this is freaky,I jokingly said on another thread a few weeks ago that a particlar barmy teacher in Poland was bound to say that America was actualy discovered by a Pole(she had taught her class that Columbus was Polish(Kolombski??:)) ) and that Leif Ericsan(not the one from the westerns) was actualy Polish....keep digging around and I bet youll find a conection Lukasz :)
Grzegorz_:


Lukasz wrote:
Boleslav the Brave, who even gave Canute a contingent of polish wariors for his invasion of England.


:) :)


Dont get too excited guys,he didnt leave any heirs,he only ruled over a small part of Britain ad to cap it off is best known to generations of school kids as "that muppet who thought he could stop the tide coming in just by commanding it not too...." :)

Lukasz Edited by: Lukasz    Jun 10, 2008, 07:14pm /  #15
isthatu2:
Dont get too excited guys,he didnt leave any heirs,he only ruled over a small part of Britain



as to Succesion
Canute died in 1035, at Shaftesbury, Dorset. He was buried in the Old Minster in Winchester. After the Norman Conquest the new regime was keen to signal its arrival by an ambitious programme of grandiose cathedrals in England. Winchester Cathedral was built on an old Anglo-Saxon site. Canute's bones, along with Emma of Normandy's and Harthacanute's, were set in a mortuary chest. In the English Civil War, in the 17th century, plundering soldiers scattered the bones in the various chests along with those of other English kings and queens, such as king Edwy and his queen Elgiva, and William Rufus.

His daughter was set to marry Conrad II's son Henry III eight months after his death. [67]

On his death Canute was succeeded in Denmark by Harthacanute, reigning as Canute III. Harold Harefoot laid claim to the throne in England until his death in 1040. Harthacanute was to reunite the two crowns of Denmark and England until his death in 1042. Canute's line came to an end, although his legacy did not. The house of Wessex was to reign once more through Edward the Confessor, who Harthacanute had brought out of exile in Normandy and made peace with. It meant the throne was Edward's if he died with no legitimate male heir. Edward was crowned King, and the Norman influence at Court was on the rise: pure Viking and Anglo-Saxon influence in England was past, although it must be remembered that the Normans themselves were of Viking descent.


kanute

not so small ... and he is called great ...

It wasn't discussion about Kanute but about rich "good" and "bad" contacts between Poles and Vikings.

Wahldo   Jun 10, 2008, 07:22pm /  #16
Lukasz:
It wasn't discussion about Kanute but about rich "good" and "bad"


I thought he was going to go into a Boudica speech there for a minute.

isthatu2   Jun 10, 2008, 07:24pm /  #17
keep yer wig on mate :)
Well,I meant to say he wasnt related to our present Royal family...the...german ..lot...from...hanover.....I'll get me coat........

Wahldo   Jun 10, 2008, 07:37pm /  #18
isthatu2:
the...german ..lot...from...hanover


Oh yeah.. the guys with the blue ****..

Lukasz Edited by: Lukasz    Jun 10, 2008, 07:42pm /  #19
isthatu2:
Well,I meant to say he wasnt related to our present Royal family...the...german ..lot...from...hanover.....I'll get me coat........



zee Germans ... :)

isthatu2   Jun 10, 2008, 07:59pm /  #20
Lukasz:

zee Germans ... :)

Could explain the recent brutal english invasion of Krakow...maybe its a resesive germanic gene?? Watch out though,dont trust dem Yanks,remember its still Anglo Saxons that dominate the real coridors of power,well,obviously the coridors the real bosses rent them;),so,that missile shield.....resesive germanic gene...dont say I didnt warn you! :)

Lukasz Edited by: Lukasz    Jun 10, 2008, 08:10pm /  #21
isthatu2:
Could explain the recent brutal english invasion of Krakow...maybe its a resesive germanic gene?? Watch out though,dont trust dem Yanks,remember its still Anglo Saxons that dominate the real coridors of power,well,obviously the coridors the real bosses rent them;),so,that missile shield.....resesive germanic gene...dont say I didnt warn you! :)



for the first half :

Thereafter for the chiefs of the Jomsborg vikings was filled and drunk the largest horn to be found, and of the strongest drink...(...)

maybe its muted Viking/Slavic gene :)

as to this shield I'd rather look for Kosher gene ;)

Ukiee   Aug 27, 2008, 06:27am /  #22
Thanx for nice topic

Prince Edited by: Prince    Nov 20, 2008, 11:39am /  #23
It is better to post it here: interesting:

Vikings in Wielkopolska

Archaeologists have unearthed near Ostrow Wielkopolski two graves Vikings. The finding comes from the late tenth and eleventh centuries . This is the first such discovery in the region of Wielkopolska .

" The graves of Viking Ostrow Lednicki

Archaeologists studying the burial of the second half . XI . Ostrow Lednicki in Greater dug two graves in the rite Viking . "

Prince Edited by: Prince    Nov 20, 2008, 01:24pm /  #24
Lukasz:

He was half Pole half Danish


Lukasz:

Mieszko I ruler of Poland or in scandinavian version Burizleif king of the Vindland had 3 daughters, one of them married Sven Forkbeard king of Denmark, their famous son was Canute the Great. So, the mother of Canute the Great was the sister of the first polish king Boleslav the Brave, who even gave Canute a contingent of polish wariors for his invasion of England.



Rebellion- Canute the Great (The King of Danish Pride)


English should be called Anglo-Saxon-Slavs

Prince Edited by: Prince    Nov 24, 2008, 08:46pm /  #25
culture.polishsite.us/articles/art262fr.htm

There are some theories suggesting that the first Polish ruling dynasty, Piast is related to Vikings. These theories are not that strong as the hypothesis that Vikings were instrumental in creating the first Russian statehood so that the name rus is of Viking origin. In the present time, the hypothesis whether the first Piast ruler had Viking blood in his vein cannot be proved or disproved but nobody argues the fact, that the relationships between the first Piasts and Vikings were close and very friendly. (...)


After 994 she married Sweyn I of Denmark under the name Gunhilda. From the second marriage she probably had five children, including Canute the Great and Harold II of Denmark. Since her marriage was not happy, she returned to Poland where her brother Boleslaw the Brave was ruling. After Sweyn died her sons, Kanut and Karald took her back from Poland. Kanut, known as Kanut the Great became later king of England, Denmark and Norway and governor of Schleswig and Pomerania. She died somewhere in Englisg castle. In any event, Boleslaus I of Poland, the first king of Poland actually sent his troops to help Canute in his successful conquest of England, another sign of close relationships between Polish rulers and Vikings.


XIV Slavs and Vikings Festival Wolin 2008
news.poland.com/result/news/id/786

During the days from 1th till 3th of August, XIV Slavs and Vikings Festival will be held in Wolin. The event is considered as one of the largest and most important events of this kind in Europe, every year it attracts one thousand participants from dozen European countries, as well as from United States and Australia. One of the main organizers of the event is association Slavs and Vikings Wolin - Jomsborg - Vineta Center.


I1a Y DNA (Spread of DNA was going in both directions)

Crow   Nov 25, 2008, 04:04am /  #26
Prince:

another sign of close relationships between Polish rulers and Vikings.

exactly. It was old and ancestral Sarmatian connection which was crucial for that relationship

Prince Edited by: Prince    Nov 25, 2008, 05:18am /  #27
Nordic and Slavic Vikings were very close in cooperation.

Crow Edited by: Crow    Nov 25, 2008, 05:35am /  #28
Prince:

Nordic and Slavic Vikings were very close in cooperation.

but it didn`t save them from disaster.

Sarmatian (read Slavic) element, culture and lingustic heritage was forced to retreat from British islands and great deal of Baltic

same what are Germans in central Europe, English are on British islands.... products of Egyptian/Hellenic/Roman/Chartaginian/Moore conquest on native Europeans. It was penetration of foreign culture on Proto-Slavic/Slavic speaking areas which resulted in mix of population (in lower degree) and with linguistic chaos (in very high degree)... ultimately.... new culture was created- Germanics appeared on horizon and started `drang nach osten`. All what was Celtic, Galic, Etruscan, Sabinian, Trachian, Dacian, etc, etc, etc, etc... all was Sarmatian/Scythian (Slavic) and all was slain and subjugated to invaders, in many cases native languages were forgotten and new linguistic mix adopted, those who failed becomes winners and they then wrote the history

Even today, soul and slave hunters seek to grab more and more what is Slavic.

Prince Edited by: Prince    Jan 6, 2009, 07:25am /  #29
You can find similar signs as on this coat of arms in different countries. Especialy in Sweden or Norway.

Or in different places... For example on Man Island

Which is even more similar to other Polish coat of arms - Drogomir.

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