Col.Jozef Swiatlo-Secret agent, torturer, CIA-collaborator to be tried?

Axis News: 08.02.200909:22 (GMT)

The United States Central Intelligence Agency has decided not to reveal any documents concerning Colonel Jozef Swiatlo, a high-ranking official of the Ministry of Public Security of Poland, who, since 1948, was working for western special security services and is known to have been used by the CIA for ‘propaganda purposes.’

Reporting on that the Polish Radio marks that the Polish Institute of National Remembrance (IPN) officials want to put Swiatlo on trial for crimes committed in the 1940s and 1950s. He is said to have contributed to the execution of about 150 soldiers of Poland’s Home Army (Armia Krajowa), the dominant Polish resistance movement in World War II German-occupied Poland.

On 5 December 1953, while in East Berlin, Swiatlo was travelling on a subway and ended up in the West Berlin sector. He then is rumoured to have begun his collaboration with the American intelligence.

Swiatlo, at the time carrying documents with him about the leadership of the Ministry of Public Security in Poland, allegedly informed Radio Free Europe about the regulations regarding the functionings of the Ministry. If Jozef Swiatlo is indeed alive – and the CIA document would provide this information – the IPN wants to issue an extradition warrant, Polish Radio notes.

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Edited by: sjam Feb 8, 09, 09:39 / #
Axis News: 08.02.200909:22 (GMT) The United States Central Intelligence Agency has decided not to reveal any documents concerning Colonel Jozef Swiatlo, a high-ranking official of the Ministry of Public Security of Poland, who, since 1948, was working for western special security services and is known to have been used by the CIA for ‘propaganda purposes.’ Reporting on that the Polish Radio marks that the Polish Institute of National Remembrance (IPN) officials want to put Swiatlo on trial for crimes committed in the 1940s and 1950s. He is said to have contributed to the execution of about 150 soldiers of Poland’s Home Army (Armia Krajowa), the dominant Polish resistance movement in World War II German-occupied Poland. On 5 December 1953, while in East Berlin, Swiatlo was travelling on a subway and ended up in the West Berlin sector. He then is rumoured to have begun his collaboration with the American intelligence. Swiatlo, at the time carrying documents with him about the leadership of the Ministry of Public Security in Poland, allegedly informed Radio Free Europe about the regulations regarding the functionings of the Ministry. If Jozef Swiatlo is indeed alive – and the CIA document would provide this information – the IPN wants to issue an extradition warrant, Polish Radio notes. Operation Splinter Factor was said to be responsible for over 100,000 arrests and 1,000 executions of entirely innocent communists. But was Jozef Swiatlo, a Polish-Jew, a a Cold War hero of the west's fight against communism in Poland and Eastern Europe, or was he a Polish traitor?

Ozi DanThreads: 21 Posts: 518 Joined: Nov 22, 07	Feb 8, 09, 11:04 / #
sjam: He is said to have contributed to the execution of about 150 soldiers of Poland’s Home Army (Armia Krajowa) sjam: was he a Polish traitor? I say he is. What do you think? Why would he be considered a hero? The above info. suggests nothing heroic.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,104 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Feb 8, 09, 11:52 / #
Kill him.

welshguyinpolaThreads: 31 Posts: 450 Joined: Jan 9, 08	Feb 8, 09, 13:10 / #
Notice how, when we see a pole being in the paper for doing sth bad, there are barely 2 responses. I'd like to know what puzzler would have to say about this PROVE IT

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Edited by: sjam Feb 8, 09, 13:58 / #
welshguyinpola: What do you think? It could be argued that Operation Splinter Factor and the part Col.Jozef Swiatlo played in this CIA operation, was the catalyst for reform of the communist system in Poland and sparked the insurrection in Poznań of June 1956 when about 100000 workers protested on the city’s streets. However the insurrection was brutally suppressed with 58 protesters killed and 700 arrested, but as a consequence of the insurrection reforms to the internal political system did take place and became known as Polish October Revolution headed by Gomułka. There were further mass demonstrations in Poland during 1956 where militia headquarters and radio-jamming equipment in Bydgoszcz were destroyed by demonstrators that November and in December protesters in in Szczecin attacked public buildings, including the state prosecutor's office, militia headquarters, a prison, and Soviet consulate. Also thanks to broadcasts by Radio Free Europe (funded by the CIA) information about the Polish October Revolution (or Gomułka Thaw) reached the people of Hungary in October 1956. It sparked a student demonstration in Budapest in support of Gomułka; the students wanting similar reforms in Hungary it resulted in the unsuccessful Hungarian Revolution where over 2,500 Hungarians and 700 Soviet troops were killed in the conflict. Operation Splinter Factor through Jozef Swiatlo did achieve part of its mission; to cause instability across communist eastern Europe so from that point of view it was a Cold-War success for the west and did lead to some internal changes and softening of policies. I am not sure if Swiatlo could be viewed as a traitor in the light of the Cold-War conflict but I guess Polish communists would disagree. I am not sure if he was a hero either.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 8, 09, 14:28 / #
Somebody who is as misguided and plotting as this should be tried. Just don't behead him like those draconian monkeys do. Try, nomullas.com. Brutal brutal people.

Polonius3Threads: 963 Posts: 4,552 Joined: Apr 11, 08	Feb 8, 09, 14:33 / #
Interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/J%C3%B3zef_%C5%9Awiat%C5%82o BTW, is Światło still alive?

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Feb 8, 09, 16:02 / #
Seanus: Somebody who is as misguided and plotting as this should be tried. Was it really misguided to help in the plotting of the removal of the communist regimes of eastern Europe... seems like most of eastern Europe wanted that as well judging by the history of the 1980's and looking at all those east European countries that are no longer dominated by communist regimes; Poland included? Polonius3: BTW, is Światło still alive? Unlikely given he was born in 1915 (?) ... but nobody knows for sure?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 8, 09, 16:18 / #
Sorry, scheming against your own people in such fashion is just wrong. He was like Brzezinski, using America as a platform to advance his dubious agenda.

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Edited by: sjam Feb 8, 09, 16:23 / #
Seanus: Sorry, scheming against your own people in such fashion is just wrong. One could equally say that he was scheming to help liberate eastern Europe from communism; Poland included? Bearing in mind also that there were still armed anti-communist resistance factions still fighting the Polish communists in early 1950's.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 8, 09, 16:26 / #
Well, the other side is that it needed something like that to bring about changes. Communism wasn't gonna disappear without the likes of him, JPII and Wałęsa. Drastic times call for drastic measures.

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Feb 8, 09, 16:41 / #
Operation Splinter Factor by Stewart Steven ISBN-13: 978-0340168349 Killing Hope: US Military and CIA Interventions Since World War II by William Blum ISBN: 9781842773697

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	Feb 9, 09, 13:30 / #
Seanus: Why should he be killed, Greg? Would you prefer to be living under communism now? I guess that you must have missed this bit, otherwise you wouldn't need to ask that question: sjam: Jozef Swiatlo, a Polish-Jew, The one good Jew is a dead Jew, eh Greg?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 9, 09, 13:39 / #
Sometimes I wonder where the gratitude is. Wałęsa, with the help of JPII, made a major impact by eliminating the scourge of communism and all he gets are allegations of being a spy. He has exonerated himself (cleared his name) several times. The same with this guy. He knew that conventional means were never gonna work so he had to resort to others. As for Jews, well, it has been said that at one time every person in a position of seniority in Poland was a Jew or of Jewish origin. Not sure about the veracity of that statement.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 8, 09, 16:45 / #
Why should he be killed, Greg? Would you prefer to be living under communism now?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Feb 9, 09, 13:48 / #
sjam: entirely innocent communists. no such thing. Seanus: Sorry, scheming against your own people in such fashion is just wrong. He was like Brzezinski, using America as a platform to advance his dubious agenda. trying to free poland. how can he even be considered a traitor? Seanus: Why should he be killed, Greg? Would you prefer to be living under communism now? that's how i am reading it. he's just clueless, really. Seanus: Not sure about the veracity of that statement. nah.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 9, 09, 14:01 / #
Prima facie, he was cheating but I don't see where the betrayal fits in and I've revised my opinion after more reading. Sometimes the best option isn't the most moral option.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Feb 9, 09, 14:18 / #
cheating? because he was a commie at one time? many, many poles had to become commies to survive.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08	Feb 9, 09, 14:42 / #
The scum died last year. It is sickening to read some of you lefties talk among yourselves. Perhaps you have no idea what MBP was, and then you should educate yourselves. This piece of human garbage was the worst of the Holocaust "survivors" we had. Oh, BTW, 37% of MBP cadre was Jewish. Also, no one was forced to sign up for the Communist regime, lest to survive. What bullshit.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 9, 09, 14:44 / #
Eh, I'm fully aware of that. That's my whole point behind defending Wałęsa, he was pressured by the times. It's so easy to criticise when you are outwith the situation.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Edited by: plk123 Feb 9, 09, 14:48 / #
1jola: What bullshit. obviously you have no clue; i've lived through that shit.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 9, 09, 14:58 / #
She doesn't seem to see the grip the Communists had. I didn't live through that period like you did, plk123, but my ears are open and I know people who have. Jola seems to be very misguided.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08	Feb 9, 09, 15:10 / #
I'm not misguided at all. People joined the Party and the Stalinist regime because they were scum. They were traitors, nothing else. Real Poles were regularly tried, imprisoned, and executed by the likes of Światło, et al. The communists had a grip? What percentage of the population joined them? Do answer.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Edited by: plk123 Feb 9, 09, 15:33 / #
i have no idea what percentage but a pretty high one, for sure. if you had a decent job and wanted to keep it, you joined. that's all there is to it. even Walesa was a commie for a time.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08	Edited by: 1jola Feb 9, 09, 15:48 / #
No, that's not all there is to it. There is more. The elimination of intelligensia by the Germans and the Soviets caused a vaccum in who can actually do the serious work. The promotion of imbeciles into the upper spheres was detrimental to the nation. Of course, it wasn't real economy, as most of the products went east to the Soviet masters, but you had to staff positions with intelligent people, and who were they? They were the 90% of population who didn't join the Communists. You, and others like you, wanted more. A better flat, privilages, separate stores... Scum, like I said. It is shameful that we can't put people like that on trial now. Even Wałęsa? It is well documented he was a commie stooge and played his part well in the smooth transition from communist rule.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Feb 9, 09, 15:51 / #
i didn't say that people joined the small group of true commies of their free will. i did say, many had to to survive. there is a difference.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08	Feb 9, 09, 16:00 / #
Please. We can also excuse Gestapo agents as they also had to survive. Did they have to torture AK soldiers to put bread on their table? Did Wisława Szymborska, the celebrated Nobel winnner(sic), have to write poems exalting Stalin? Raz kurwa...

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Feb 9, 09, 16:12 / #
come on now. gestapo and the commies? not all commies were about oppression. almost all educated people i knew/know in PL were members of the party for the reasons i already stated. you can ignore the facts if you want to but that doesn't change the truth. and don't kurwa me... ok?

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08	Feb 9, 09, 17:04 / #
The derogarory phrase was not directed toward you. Funny, all educated people I know here were not members of the Party. In fact, all less educated people I know were not either. The ones who were were shunned by us. I guess we come from different traditions. You know, many people gave their life for our country. We owe it to them to stay true to the cause of free Poland. Subservience for material gain is immoral. Gestapo, NKVD, UB, same animal, different color. The likes of Światło, Różański, Berman were beasts like Spilker or Hahn. Do not apologize for torturers.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,410 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Feb 9, 09, 17:18 / #
we're talking about different thing. i am talking just about ordinary people trying to survive. they didn't torture anyone, they just had the party card because without it, life really sucked. did any of the ones i know actually believed in commies, hell no, they all joined solidarnosc as soon as they could. i bet more of the people you know were members but i doubt they'd admit to it. just wait and they when they get way old, they'll tell you the truth then.