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Why communism failed in Poland?


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southernThreads: 116
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Joined: May 17, 07 		Edited by: southern   Feb 28, 09, 15:10 /  #
Was it due to leaders' incompetence,or...?
SeanBMThreads: 41
Posts: 8,726
Joined: Mar 10, 08 		  Feb 28, 09, 16:02 /  #
Cuban, Cambodian or Russian communism?.



Communism was bound to fail because it goes against human nature.

People were not treated all the same during communism, humans can not do that.
Banana economics, people did not need to work at their jobs because they would be paid anyway,
100% employment they called it 100% disaster i call it.
Communism i find that it is all about the party.

I




Good choice of topic.
1jolaThreads: 33
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Joined: Sep 23, 08 		  Feb 28, 09, 16:31 /  #
It didn't fail at all. It worked out greatly for Party members and for the Soviets. Poland provided exactly what it was to provide - a huge amount of food products, steel, coal, ships, etc. for the Soviets. I hope you are not under the impression that communism is about equality.
SashaThreads: 2
Posts: 1,597
Joined: Apr 19, 08  Pictures: 1 		  Feb 28, 09, 17:29 /  #
southern:
Was it due to leaders' incompetence,or...?

Not that it failed. It just lived in Poland less than for instance in the USSR. History fetches a circle. We might come back to the comminism under the different name (the EU already became to have some socialistic deviation).

1jola:
Poland provided exactly what it was to provide - a huge amount of food products, steel, coal, ships, etc. for the Soviets.

So you assert that the USSR just pumped out resources from Poland? :)
Grzegorz_Threads: 81
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Joined: Nov 16, 06 		  Feb 28, 09, 17:37 /  #
Sasha:
So you assert that the USSR just pumped out resources from Poland? :)

No. It was flooding us with tones of luxury goods.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Joined: Apr 2, 07 		Edited by: Bratwurst Boy   Feb 28, 09, 17:38 /  #
Sasha:
We might come back to the comminism under the different name (the EU already became to have some socialistic deviation).

Well...a great difference and an objective measure:

Who tries to escape from where!

People voted against the Communism with their feet...people had to get imprisoned in huge jails to keep them together.
And do you want the newest statistics about those millions wanting to get IN to the EU?

There is no comparison!
SashaThreads: 2
Posts: 1,597
Joined: Apr 19, 08  Pictures: 1 		  Feb 28, 09, 17:49 /  #
Grzegorz_:
No. It was flooding us with tones of luxury goods.

True
:)

Bratwurst Boy:
And do you want the newest statistics about those millions wanting to get IN to the EU?

There is no comparison!

I don't want to compare the exact things. In fact there's nothing bad in any ideology. What's usually bad is the way it conducts. Just sit and wait for the way it will be conduct this time... then we may have an exchange of views.
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Joined: Mar 10, 08 		  Feb 28, 09, 17:52 /  #
Sasha:
In fact there's nothing bad in any ideology.

Rubbish.

Sasha:
What's usually bad is the way it conducts.

If the theory doesn't fit change the people....Rubbish.

Sasha:
Just sit and wait for the way it will be conduct this time... then we may have an exchange of views.

If the Socialist scandinavians have their way the E.U. would be socialist but that is watered down communism.

Bloody commie! ha ha ha ha
1jolaThreads: 33
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Joined: Sep 23, 08 		  Feb 28, 09, 17:52 /  #
Grzegorz_:
Sasha:
So you assert that the USSR just pumped out resources from Poland? :)
No. It was flooding us with tones of luxury goods.

Which we always politely declined so we wouldn't appear too dacadent like those imperialistic swines from western Europe. Tffuu!

On a serious note. They used to tell the Russians that the shortages in their stores were because they had to help the satellite countries. Always pitting one group against another. What's interesting is that Poles had to learn Russian in schools, while Russians learned...English.
southernThreads: 116
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Joined: May 17, 07 		Edited by: southern   Feb 28, 09, 17:55 /  #
1jola:
Poland provided exactly what it was to provide - a huge amount of food products, steel, coal, ships, etc. for the Soviets.

The point is that after the collapse the products which Poland provided were of no demand in the West,while the soviet raw materials which SU provided to Poland became highly popular in the West.
SashaThreads: 2
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SeanBM:
Rubbish.

A brilliant argument.

SeanBM:
If the theory doesn't fit change the people....Rubbish.

Yes, this is a rubbish. I said some different thing.

1jola:
Always pitting one group against another

That politician tool is still alive.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  Feb 28, 09, 18:40 /  #
I have to agree with Seanny here, Sasha. Don't you have the term 'flawed ideology' in Russian?
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Joined: Mar 10, 08 		  Feb 28, 09, 18:41 /  #
Sasha:
A brilliant argument.

Thank you, i write my own material :)
southernThreads: 116
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Could communists have produced better results in Poland?
SeanusThreads: 22
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Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  Feb 28, 09, 18:47 /  #
Define results, results in what?
southernThreads: 116
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Seanus:
Define results

Rise of living standards.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  Feb 28, 09, 18:53 /  #
Do you really think that communists are adept at doing that?? Even a more capitalist Poland struggled to do that and sustain it.
RandalThreads: 1
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Joined: Feb 14, 09 		  Feb 28, 09, 18:54 /  #
Communism is failing the U.S. as we speak.
southernThreads: 116
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Joined: May 17, 07 		Edited by: southern   Feb 28, 09, 18:55 /  #
Seanus:
Do you really think that communists are adept at doing that??

It was the ultimate goal to achieve rise of the living standards.It would determine if the system survived or not.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Rise of living standards for who? In practice I mean, not in theory.
RandalThreads: 1
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Joined: Feb 14, 09 		Edited by: Randal   Feb 28, 09, 19:03 /  #
Seanus:
Rise of living standards for who?

Why, the lazy, of course.
southernThreads: 116
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Randal:
Why, the lazy, of course.

In communism everyone had to work.There were no lazy.
SashaThreads: 2
Posts: 1,597
Joined: Apr 19, 08  Pictures: 1 		  Feb 28, 09, 19:10 /  #
Seanus:
Don't you have the term 'flawed ideology' in Russian?

I think we don't. Sean (the Scottish one), any ideology more or less flawed. Often if it fits one social group it squeezes another. It would never satisfy everybody.
The naming of ideology is like a brand for people some of them are talked-up and own good reputation some vice-versa. Politicians just change the naming convention using the older approach with some changes of course to conform to the actual reality.
Quite funny to track the communists... in the beginning of last century they're all to a man Jews and atheist ruining Christian (Orthodox&Catholic) churches. The current version is they're all Russians, faithful, criticizing the government for being undemocratic but still are demagogues.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  Feb 28, 09, 19:13 /  #
So there is something bad in an ideology if it is irrational and exclusionist.

There is no 'ideal' ideology, LOL
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Joined: Mar 10, 08 		Edited by: SeanBM   Feb 28, 09, 20:51 /  #
southern:
Could communists have produced better results in Poland?

No, Communism in Poland was a buffer zone, a stooge a puppet between those commie Ruskies and the West.
This could never have benefited Poland and Polish people found that out quickly.


Randal:
Why, the lazy, of course.

southern:
In communism everyone had to work.There were no lazy.

I wouldn't have said lazy, just conditioned not to do their job, it is still evident today.
I will put it another way, it was 100% employment but there was no reason to work, you were not going to get more money or lose your job.

One of the major pitfalls of communism was there are no incentives, just Siberia if you talked against them.

They created problems so people could work.
"Communism heroically fought obstacles that other countries just don't have".
BabinichThreads: 1
Posts: 1,054
Joined: May 26, 08  Pictures: 1 		Edited by: Babinich   Feb 28, 09, 21:35 /  #
southern:
Was it due to leaders' incompetence,or...?

It is because Communism butts up against human nature.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  Feb 28, 09, 21:40 /  #
Communism was just one great control mechanism which was FAR off giving people the kind of life which they can now enjoy.

It is a system for weirdos.
joepilsudskiThreads: 44
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Joined: Apr 27, 07  Pictures: 1 		Edited by: joepilsudski   Feb 28, 09, 22:17 /  #
Why Communism Failed in Poland

Communism failed because it is a false doctrine...Communism was created and spearheaded by 'Atheistic Jewish Utopians'...They fell back on their Jewish/Talmudic roots when they put it into practice, basing the system on the Jewish 'kahal' or commune, which was a beehive like entity ruled by 'queen bee' like 'elders' who dictated to the less fortunate 'drone' Jews...Also, it was supposed to be a 'worker's paradise', but in fact was a feudalist empire, crated by bankers/capitalists, run by sub-mentality bureaucrats, for the enslavement of the common man (or 'goyim')...Poles, as Catholics, and also as a freedom loving people, naturally would resist such a 'creation'...This is why it failed.

Red Octopus
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Joined: Mar 10, 08 		  Feb 28, 09, 22:32 /  #
joepilsudski:
Communism was created and spearheaded by 'Atheistic Jewish Utopians'

What are you talking about?.
Have you any thing to back up these statements?.
joepilsudskiThreads: 44
Posts: 2,529
Joined: Apr 27, 07  Pictures: 1 		  Feb 28, 09, 22:54 /  #
SeanBM:
What are you talking about?.
Have you any thing to back up these statements?.


Please read historical sources...The information is readily available...If you want individual tutorial sessions from me, we can arrange that, but there will be a charge.
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