Dr Roger Ray blames Polish and Germany for Holocaust

The majority of Europe had turned on the Jews. The majority of Americans were, at best, indifferent towards their plight. But when the war was over it was clear that there was no going back to the pre-war days of Christians and Jews living side by side, especially not in Germany or Poland.

And yet, the weight of the guilt for the Holocaust lay at the feet of Europe but the proposed solution was to create a Jewish homeland in a place where they had not lived in large numbers for nearly 2,000 years. Germany and Poland orchestrated the Holocaust but the land taken to create a Jewish homeland was taken from Palestine.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jan 7, 09, 11:42 / #
Just when I thought I heard it all. The majority of Europe had turned on the Jews. The majority of Americans were, at best, indifferent towards their plight. But when the war was over it was clear that there was no going back to the pre-war days of Christians and Jews living side by side, especially not in Germany or Poland. And yet, the weight of the guilt for the Holocaust lay at the feet of Europe but the proposed solution was to create a Jewish homeland in a place where they had not lived in large numbers for nearly 2,000 years. Germany and Poland orchestrated the Holocaust but the land taken to create a Jewish homeland was taken from Palestine. . http://www.news-leader.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20090107/OPINION S05/901070398

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Jan 7, 09, 12:01 / #
celinski: Germany and Poland orchestrated the Holocaust ....oh boy!

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06	Jan 7, 09, 12:15 / #
celinski: Dr Roger Ray blames Polish and Germany for Holocaust This is a man who claims to be a pastor… http://lifeofjason.com/2008/06/07/why-does-dr-roger-ray-use-hate-speec h/ its all hate speeches.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Jan 7, 09, 12:33 / #
Israel's anxiety as Jews prefer Germany http://www.telegraph.co.uk/comment/3558319/Israel's-anxiety-as-Jews-pr efer-Germany.html "Israel's greatest concern at the moment is that there have never been more Israelis living abroad," said Rabbi Walter Homolka, principal of the Rabbinical Seminary in Berlin. He described it as a "brain drain" and said Germany was one of the "biggest expat centres". In addition, many Jews who once might have considered emigrating to Israel - making their Aliya - have in the past few years been choosing to head to Germany instead. Graduate student pushes for Jewish state in Germany http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/992626.html Whenever someone launches an initiative towards establishing a Jewish state in addition to the one already in existence, there is invariably a ripple effect. This time, however, an even bigger stir than usual has been caused by the proposed site of the "second Israel": Germany. "The state of Thuringia is becoming more empty of people, the economy is not successful, and there is no immigration," Eidelman said. "They're hurting from the fact that there are no foreigners here. Hitler's dream of racially pure states has proven to be a nightmare. You walk down the street and notice all the girls look alike. I'm going to convince the Germans that a Jewish state here is to their benefit."

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Jan 7, 09, 12:48 / #
Prince: Graduate student pushes for Jewish state in Germany ... I'm going to convince the Germans that a Jewish state here is to their benefit." ... Erm...and what about them???

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06	Jan 7, 09, 13:02 / #
Prince: "Israel's greatest concern at the moment is that there have never been more Israelis living abroad," said Rabbi Walter Homolka, principal of the Rabbinical Seminary in Berlin. Increasing Israels Jewish population has always been a problem for Zionists. In 1948 the Jews in Israel had a problem, they were outnumbered by Arabs. How could the Jews rule a land that was 90% non Jewish ? Easy, just get rid of the non Jews - so Israeli terrorist groups, the Haganah, the Stern Gang and the Palmach, started progroms to get rid of the problem. Next problem, how do you get jews to come to Israel, which lets face it, is just a desert. After the horrors of WW2 wouldn't you rahter settle in USA or France or Australia or ......anywhere but a desert ? So began the Zionist policy of terrorising Jews. “The facts are that many of these Jews were intimidated by acts of terror by Israeli agents, sent by Israeli leaders to bring in more immigrants to Israel. Modechai Ben Porat , was accused by the Israeli writer Baruch Nadel of tossing hand grenades in the crowded Masouda Shem Tov synagogue in Iraq. Ben Porat was boasting about his personal share in organizing Zionist underground activities in Iraq which encouraged Jews to "come home to Israel". Also contrary to your statement, a number of Arab countries have stated publicly that they would welcome back those Jewish former citizens of their countries. Alas, it is about time that Canadians and the rest of the world are told truth about this tragic conflict, so that a modicum of justice is obtained by the Palestinians. For without justice, there will be no peace for Arab or Jew in the Middle East.” ...wrote Ismail Zayid, MD. President, Canada Palestine Association, to the Canadian Globe and Mail in May 2001. The Iraqi Naiem Giladi tells a similar story: “I write this article for the same reason I wrote my book: to tell the American people, and especially American Jews, that Jews from Islamic lands did not emigrate willingly to Israel; that, to force them to leave, Jews killed Jews; and that, to buy time to confiscate ever more Arab lands, Jews on numerous occasions rejected genuine peace initiatives from their Arab neighbors. I write about what the first prime minister of Israel called "cruel Zionism." I write about it because I was part of it." "About 125,000 Jews left Iraq for Israel in the late 1940s and into 1952, most because they had been lied to and put into a panic by what I came to learn were Zionist bombs." http://www.bintjbeil.com/E/occupation/ameu_iraqjews.html

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Jan 7, 09, 13:32 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Erm...and what about them??? it is very interesting situation ... thought. You need to talk with Marek. :) szkotja2007: szkotja2007 well I am not fan of what is going on in Israel but I would love to see Palestinians and Jews living and respecting each other they both are humans.

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06	Jan 7, 09, 13:41 / #
Prince: well I am not fan of what is going on in Israel but I would love to see Palestinians and Jews living and respecting each other they both are humans. Amen.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Edited by: Moderator Jan 7, 09, 13:44 / #
Prince: well I am not fan of what is going on in Israel but I would love to see Palestinians and Jews living and respecting each other they both are humans. Sadly I feel Israel has made matters worse. Please keep to the topic

HatefulBunch397Threads: - Posts: 1,018 Joined: Nov 5, 08	Jan 7, 09, 14:07 / #
The reason Israel exists is because of WWII. I just can't believe the nerve of some of you. Why do you think Israel exists? Once the radicals in the Middle east are gone they can live in peace. It's like that anywhere. Radicals are what make things worse, it's always ALWAYS true. Put the blame where it belongs, on the radical elements who try to take over and use people, physically and psychologically, to achieve their twisted, selfish, psychopathic ends.

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,054 Joined: May 26, 08	Edited by: Babinich Jan 7, 09, 21:00 / #
szkotja2007: Can anyone name a European country that has never discriminated against Jews ? Never??? That's a long time... Recently: Albania....

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 871 Joined: Jul 27, 08	Jan 8, 09, 08:02 / #
celinski: Germany and Poland orchestrated the Holocaust but the land taken to create a Jewish homeland was taken from Palestine. You quoted one ignorant guy (not Jewish) and look what anti Jewish hate spewed out of this forum! About his quote: Just like he's wrong about Poland engineering the holocaust he's also wrong about Israel. Just like you cringe at the foolish things ignorant people say about Poland, I cringe at the foolish things ignorant people say about Israel. Most of you on this forum just repeat superficial opinions based on news reports. You don't actually have a clue of what we;'re really like and what's going on in this country. And I admit - whatever I know about poland is superficial too. That's why I don't go telling polish people what their government should be doing.

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 871 Joined: Jul 27, 08	Jan 8, 09, 09:37 / #
Duly noted, celinski. Now here's a link to someone who gets it... http://www.worldnetdaily.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.view&pageId=85547

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 8, 09, 12:23 / #
...Historians and archeologists believe the Hebrews probably arrived in the area in the second millennium B.C. The nation itself was formed as the Israelites left Egypt during the Exodus, believed to be in the late 13th century B.C Och nö...not THAT reasoning again!

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06	Jan 7, 09, 14:08 / #
HatefulBunch397: Why do you think Israel exists? Because they refused Madagascar.

HatefulBunch397Threads: - Posts: 1,018 Joined: Nov 5, 08	Jan 7, 09, 14:24 / #
To be honest, I'm a believer in a jewish state in Europe after WWII. The problem is, it would need to be protected so that other European nations weren't always trying to invade it, plus it would need to compete with others in Europe. Would it be possible considering how hostile it's been in the past? I would never want to live in Europe. It's just too scary. I would be too afraid.

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06	Jan 7, 09, 15:05 / #
Can anyone name a European country that has never discriminated against Jews ?

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Jan 7, 09, 15:50 / #
HatefulBunch397: The reason Israel exists is because of WWII. I just can't believe the nerve of some of you. Why do you think Israel exists? Once the radicals in the Middle east are gone they can live in peace. It's like that anywhere. Radicals are what make things worse, it's always ALWAYS true. Put the blame where it belongs, on the radical elements who try to take over and use people, physically and psychologically, to achieve their twisted, selfish, psychopathic ends. Correct...The purpose of WWII was threefold: 1) Destroy Germany as a continental European power...2) Further establish Bolshevism as a 'superpower'...3) Give the land of Palestine to Khazar Jews...The biggest Jew radicals are in Israel, and you can see what those sons of hell do there when they have the chance, re Gaza...As far as the 'holocaust', stop whining, Jews...You lost maybe 1000000...Of course, that is too much, even one murdered person is too much, but compare this with the suffering of Slavic people, who lost maybe 10000000...And the suffering of Germans under their part-Jewish 'fuhrer' Hitler...80000000 Germans killed?...Blame Poland for the killing of Jews?...Stop it, you won't get any more money or sympathy!

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,544 Joined: Dec 29, 06	Jan 7, 09, 16:06 / #
HatefulBunch397: Why do you think Israel exists? Ok, so maybe my last post on this subject was too obtuse. The reason for the ME antagonism is partly because of Zionist agents creating this antagonism so that Jews would populate Israel. szkotja2007: Can anyone name a European country that has never discriminated against Jews ? C'mon - have a guess.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Jan 7, 09, 16:10 / #
HatefulBunch397: It's just too scary. I would be too afraid. Yup...nothing for wussys! Europeans are tough!

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jan 8, 09, 08:17 / #
yehudi: Most of you on this forum just repeat superficial opinions based on news reports. You don't actually have a clue of what we;'re really like and what's going on in this country. As far as Israel you are right, I'm sorry. I am just sick of all killing.

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 871 Joined: Jul 27, 08	Jan 8, 09, 14:19 / #
That's just history. Assuming you are a Christian, how do you figure Jesus got born in bethlehem if it wasn't a jewish country? He sure wasn't an Arab. This historical argument doesn't mean we can throw other people out of the country, which is why we didn't. Till the arabs invaded Israel in 1948 there were no arab refugees. But when they tried to throw us out, some of them got thrown our instead. And since there was no refugee problem till then and there were no "occupied territories" why did they invade? Because the Arabs can't abide by any non-muslims having sovereignty in the Islamic world. That's their belief. We're not bound by that.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Jan 8, 09, 14:24 / #
yehudi: Assuming you are a Christian, how do you figure Jesus got born in bethlehem if it wasn't a jewish country? He sure wasn't an Arab. That's just more fairy tales I don't care about...the living are important. We need fair solutions for all them!

HatefulBunch397Threads: - Posts: 1,018 Joined: Nov 5, 08	Edited by: HatefulBunch397 Jan 8, 09, 14:41 / #
Who do I blame for the war? I blame Europe, the Soviets and the US. These posts about the war remind us all of how war twists the minds of people, how evil it is, how it shapes the generations, the scars it leaves. In the future, let us all do our parts to contain situations that have the potential to escalate to a crisis of mammoth proportions. If we learn anything from the past, perhaps that's it. Do not let ourselves be brainwashed by selfish psychopaths that want to use us in their sick games. Let us remember in war there's never any winners just the promise of hope for an enduring peace.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Jan 8, 09, 14:59 / #
HatefulBunch397: In the future, let us all do our parts to contain situations that have the potential to escalate to a crisis of mammoth proportions. Nice sunday speech hatie...has never worked, will never work!

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jan 9, 09, 06:11 / #
I was happy to see the paper print a full page reaction to Ray's thought process. Blaming Holocaust on Polish wrong, irresponsible I do not really know how to express how appalled I was to read the article "Middle East crisis reflects unworkable political solution" with its sickening claim about alleged Polish responsibility for the Holocaust. http://www.news-leader.com/article/20090109/OPINIONS02/901090302

yehudiThreads: 1 Posts: 871 Joined: Jul 27, 08	Jan 9, 09, 06:28 / #
<div class="quoting">Bratwurst Boy: Och nö...not THAT reasoning again!</div> The reason we bring the historical issue up is to counter the claim that Palestine was an arab country that we snatched for our own nefarious purposes. Here's an interesting quote about the "Palestinian" claim that is worth reading... indymedia.ie/article/13700

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Jan 10, 09, 11:48 / #
yehudi: The reason we bring the historical issue up is to counter the claim that Palestine was an arab country that we snatched for our own nefarious purposes Palestine has been an Arab land for over a thousand years...This was acknowledged in the Balfour Declaration, conceived with the backing of the Rothschilds...The declaration and subsequent statements make clear reference to this, and to the fact that Jewish immigration should in no way infringe on the rights of the native inhabitants...Of course, all this went by the wayside...The Rothschilds were instrumental in the purchase and founding of that state...After WWI, they purchased the railway that ran from Turkey to Palestine to fascilitate their purposes...In fact, the establishment of Israel, i.e. the Balfour Declaration was made with the idea that Israel would be a spearhed for Rothschild/British interest in the Middle East, especially in regards to oil...The Rothschilds also financed the completion of the Suez Canal...So, they were thinking strategically, and in terms of long range profits...But the Rothschilds were also the biggest betrayer of the Eastern/Khazar Jews, because they, and other well-to-do 'assimilated Jews' found the Eastern Jews 'distasteful'...Which is why the Rothaschilds and other 'assimilated' Jews made no attempt to stop Hitler: In fact, they financed him...Why is it that Hitler had his greatest wrath for poorer and small-business Jews but never mentioned the mega rich Rothschilds, Warburs, Oppenheimers?...Because they supported him...Only when things got really out of hand in Europe, after Barbarossa and when Stalin 'Russified' the Bolshevist regime in Russia, did the Rothschilds have some second thoughts...But in the end they got what they wanted: they spread of Communism, from which they made a tidy penny, and their base in Zionist Israel...The Rothschilds, who are not 'Jews' as most people think of them, but Freemasons, are still extremely powerful there...They built the modern Knesset, the Israeli Supreme Court, etc...As far as Israel, it was a European colonial creation: a dumping ground for European Jews who were not wanted, with the other purpose being what I have outlined...The Arabs knew they would be backstabbed by the Western Powers and their Zionist financiers...This is why they hate Israel (although they will deal with it if they can make money)...The real victims in all of this?...Poor Palestinians who have lived in their homeland for centuries and are being 'ethnically cleansed' by the foreign Ashkenazim...And please, no bull shit about current Israel being the succesor to the Biblical Israelites...You don't understand the Bible if you subscribe to this...The word 'Jew' as a description of a people, other then in the Book of Esther appears only one time in the Old testament...Abraham was not a Jew: he was and Arab or what would be considered today an Iraqi...Moses was not a Jew...Neither were Issac or Jacob, who were Abraham's sons...And, please, no 'Jesus Christ was a Jew'...Jesus Christ was a descendant of Israelites...And as the fulfillment of the Old Testament hopes for God, His followers, called Christians, are the true Israelites...The Ashkenazim/Khazars have no connection with the Holy Land from scripture as they were descended from Central Asian Turks, who migrated to what is now Southern Russia in the time of the 3-4th Century AD...The only Biblical connection of these particular 'Jews' to the Bible is their spiritual descent from the Pharisees, the ones who plotted to kill Christ...They would be 'the Jews who say they are Jews, but they lie' as stated in the Book of Revelation...The 'Synagogue of Satan'...Their actions in current Israel expose them as sons of the devil...Judge a nation by it's fruits. As far as Poland and the 'holocaust' or WWII, Poland was attacked, not the attacker...Let's get our victims correctly identified.

HatefulBunch397Threads: - Posts: 1,018 Joined: Nov 5, 08	Jan 10, 09, 12:23 / #
joepilsudski: Palestine has been an Arab land for over a thousand years... Joe Pilsudski, for whatever reason, you are just anti jewish. I don't know why, but every post of yours is anti jewish and this prejiduce of yours zaps all your reasoning and influences your posts. According to the bible, the land did belong to the jews and was the kingdom of David thousands of years ago, after the jews left Egypt and went across the sea that Moses parted, into the wilderness which is now Israel.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 10, 09, 12:31 / #
There was actually a sovereign Jewish State which was effectively nullifed by the Romans. Israel was an entity long before that happened though. Still, ancient times were governed by ancient rules. Why should we suddenly pay heed to the UN partition of 1948? Modern times see the UN as a neglected and fragile organisation. We have 14/15 voting for a measure but a country refusing to abide by what it prescribes. Stealth alone cannot win the day, as yehudi seems to suggest. If that were so, America could accrue large parts of the earth for itself.