"GANGING UP" ON POLAND?

Nathan:

SHOW WHERE GERMANS WERE HARSHER AND MORE BRUTAL IN EITHER KULTURKAMPF OR GERMANIZATION TOWARDS POLES AS COMPARED WITH POLISH POLONIZATION AND PACIFICATION IN THE EASTERN EUROPE. Is it hard to understand this sentence?

In Prussia, and later in Germany, Poles were forbidden to build homes, and their properties were targeted for forced buy-outs financed by the Prussian and German governments. Otto von Bismarck described Poles, as animals (wolves), that "one shoots if one can" and implemented several harsh laws aiming at their expulsion from traditionally Polish lands. The Polish language was banned from public, and ethnically Polish children tortured at schools,[19] just for speaking Polish (see: Września). Poles were subjected to a wave of forceful evictions (Rugi Pruskie). German government financed and encouraged settlement of ethnic Germans into those areas aiming at their geopolitical germanisation.[20] The Prussian Landtag passed laws against Catholics.[21]

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09	Edited by: Nathan Jul 10, 09, 01:21 / #
Pan Kazimierz: All I am asking, and you called it "cherry-picking", to show where Germans were more harsh than Poles. I feel you don't want to answer my question here. You stuck on one example I gave in posts way before that, where the Polish property was bought out by Germans. But my question is above: SHOW WHERE GERMANS WERE HARSHER AND MORE BRUTAL IN EITHER KULTURKAMPF OR GERMANIZATION TOWARDS POLES AS COMPARED WITH POLISH POLONIZATION AND PACIFICATION IN THE EASTERN EUROPE. Is it hard to understand this sentence? Btw., whatever your Chewbacca defense means, I use here more offense to test the truth. Right now I don't feel any defense on your side. :)

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	Jul 10, 09, 02:45 / #
Nathan: SHOW WHERE GERMANS WERE HARSHER AND MORE BRUTAL IN EITHER KULTURKAMPF OR GERMANIZATION TOWARDS POLES AS COMPARED WITH POLISH POLONIZATION AND PACIFICATION IN THE EASTERN EUROPE. First of all Nathan when Germany conquered Poland along with Russia and Austria Poland already had a vast cultural and national heritage that would have to be forcefully destroyed via re-education, Ukraine at the time it became part of the Commonwealth dod not have such a heritage and was not a nation or a country before. Second we didnt force you to learn our language, we just bought you, Poland kept throwing money at the education system and so did Ruthenians, we just had much more money therefore for every Ruthenian school ten more would propagate Polish culture.

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09	Edited by: Nathan Jul 10, 09, 06:05 / #
Sokrates: Ukraine at the time it became part of the Commonwealth dod not have such a heritage "Visitors from abroad commented on the high level of literacy, even among commoners, in the Hetmanate. There was a higher number of elementary schools per population in the Hetmanate than in either neighboring Muscovy or Poland. In the 1740s, of 1,099 settlements within seven regimental districts, as many as 866 had primary schools.[1] The German vistitor to the Hetmanate, writing in 1720, commented on how the son of Hetman Danylo Apostol, who had never left Ukraine, was fluent in the Latin, Italian, French, German, Polish and Russian languages [2] Under Mazepa, the Kiev collegium was transformed into an Academy and attracted some of the leading scholars of the Orthodox world [3]. Mazepa established another Collegium in Chernihiv. Many of those trained in Kiev, such as Feofan Prokopovich (founder of the Russian Academy of Sciences) would later move to Moscow, so that Ivan Mazepa's patronage not only raised the level of culture in Ukraine but also in Moscow itself.[3] A musical academy was established in 1737 in the Hetmanate's then-capital of Hlukhiv". http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cossack_Hetmanate Ostroh Academy found in 1576 - the 1st university in the Eastern Europe. Poland has an older one by 200 years - in Krakiw. Kievan Rus', although sparsely populated compared to Western Europe [1], was not only the largest contemporary European state in terms of area but also culturally advanced.[8] Literacy in Kiev, Novgorod and other large cities was high.[9][10] As birch bark documents attest, they exchanged love letters and prepared cheat sheets for schools. Novgorod had a sewage system[11] and wood paving not often found in other cities at the time. The Russkaya Pravda confined punishments to fines and generally did not use capital punishment.[12] Certain inalienable rights were accorded to women, such as property and inheritance rights http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kievan_Rus' It was a literate, civilized society of the 11th century. Under Daniil's reign, Galicia–Volhynia was one of the most powerful states in east central Europe.[2] Literature flourished, producing the Galician–Volhynian Chronicle. Demographic growth was enhanced by immigration from the west and the south, including Germans and Armenians. Commerce developed due to trade routes linking the Black Sea with Poland, Germany and the Baltic basin. Major cities, which served as important economic and cultural centers, were among others: Lviv (where the royal seat would later be moved by Daniil's son) - this was in 12 century, hundred years before Polish invasion. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Galicia%E2%80%93Volhynia This is all I demanded, Sokrates. If I ever need a big mouth for something else, I'll let you know. Otherwise, please, present the comparison I asked for. Don't play with words of heritage and culture and saying that you had culture and others don't. Why? Do you like waste your and my time on BS? Let's learn something together. P.S. Will anyone answer my question here or not? Please learn how to use quote functions properly http://www.polishforums.com/guidelines_screen_shots_other_tips-23_3462 2_0.html#msg674951

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Jul 10, 09, 07:45 / #
Nathan: Let's learn something together. You are barking up the wrong tree :-)

Pan KazimierzThreads: 2 Posts: 276 Joined: Jul 4, 09	Jul 10, 09, 12:19 / #
Nathan: SHOW WHERE GERMANS WERE HARSHER AND MORE BRUTAL IN EITHER KULTURKAMPF OR GERMANIZATION TOWARDS POLES AS COMPARED WITH POLISH POLONIZATION AND PACIFICATION IN THE EASTERN EUROPE. Is it hard to understand this sentence? See, that individual part isn't hard to understand. Which is why I'd originally posted the quote below: In Prussia, and later in Germany, Poles were forbidden to build homes, and their properties were targeted for forced buy-outs financed by the Prussian and German governments. Otto von Bismarck described Poles, as animals (wolves), that "one shoots if one can" and implemented several harsh laws aiming at their expulsion from traditionally Polish lands. The Polish language was banned from public, and ethnically Polish children tortured at schools,[19] just for speaking Polish (see: Września). Poles were subjected to a wave of forceful evictions (Rugi Pruskie). German government financed and encouraged settlement of ethnic Germans into those areas aiming at their geopolitical germanisation.[20] The Prussian Landtag passed laws against Catholics.[21] Simplified: Poles were forbidden to build homes in said area. (Ukraine as well, I know) Forced buy-outs. Forced evictions. (Ukraine as well, I know) Banning of the Polish language. (Ukraine as well, I know) Children beaten (because I doubt 'tortured' is quite accurate; this is why I hate Wiki) at schools for using language. (Ukraine as well? I don't know.) Governmental aid for racial majority of occupying force to settle these lands. Nathan: Btw., whatever your Chewbacca defense means, I use here more offense to test the truth. Right now I don't feel any defense on your side. :) Chewbacca Defense: attempt to win a debate by 'last man standing' methodology. Usually carried out by causing excessive confusion or excessive frustration until opponent just gives up and leaves. Logic being that lack of a responding post means that you win the debate. Not to be confused with Godwin's Law: ""As an internet discussion/debate grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches one." "You know who else used laws to stop debates? Hitler!" ...back on topic, is this really quite so harsh as I'd originally thought it to be? Apparently not, though it's still debatably worse than Polonisation procedures in Ukrainian lands. Possibly it's not even Davies' description I was thinking of, but Zamoyski's instead. But I haven't yet seen any reason why I was wrong when I said that it was.

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09	Jul 10, 09, 14:10 / #
z_darius: That is my weakness about Germans. I even apply their methods in my garden. No "English style" mess. All plants are in nice formations, like little soldiers along side the fence. so now we have English, French and German garden style?hmmmmmm.........

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Jul 10, 09, 15:10 / #
Sokrates: Second we didnt force you to learn our language, we just bought you, Poland kept throwing money at the education system Really? Is that why the number of Ukrainian-language schools went from 440 to 8? Is that why in the 1938/9 academic year only 3 Ukrainians in Volhynia were accepted for tertiary education?

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Jul 10, 09, 16:38 / #
aphrodisiac: so now we have English, French and German garden style?hmmmmmm......... No such thing as German garden style was suggested. In fact Germans follow both English and French style as they see fit. I follow Germany inspired style ;)

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08	Jul 13, 09, 12:00 / #
Harry: Really? Is that why the number of Ukrainian-language schools went from 440 to 8? Is that why in the 1938/9 academic year only 3 Ukrainians in Volhynia were accepted for tertiary education? I thought they were talking about Commonwealth era? o_O

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,054 Joined: May 26, 08	Aug 6, 09, 18:57 / #
Harry: Poland promised not to sign a separate peace treaty with the USSR: after Ukrainians had fought for Poland (and after the miracle on the Wisla) Poland signed a separate peace treaty with the USSR. Like the Rada did to the Poles in 1918 by signing Brest-Litovsk?