Katyn executioners named, protected by Russian authorties

Federal Security Service (FSB) of the Russian Federation transferred to Poland all the documents avaiable concerning the Katyn case, execution by the troops of the Soviet People's Commissariat of Interior of 14,000 captured Polish officers in 1940, news agency Interfax reports.
However, as the head of Department of registration and archival funds of the FSB of Russia, Lieutenant- General Vasily Khristoforov noted, the most part of the archives on Katyn events had been destroyed back in the 1950s.
Besides, according to Khristiforov, there is no such thing as a single archive on Katyn tragedy. The documents which are directly or indirectly related to the execution of Polish officers are scattered throughout most different Russian archives.
The criminal case on execution of captured Polish officers near Katyn was brought in August 1990, however, in 2004, the Main Military Prosecutor’s Office passed a decision on the termination of investigation on the ground that the employees of the People's Commissariat of Interior guilty of the execution are already dead.
On May 22, 2008, relatives of the murdered Katyn officers addressed to the Khamovniky court of Moscow with the request to cancel the decision of the Main Military Prosecutor’s Office and rehabilitate the executed Polish officers. The court rejected the request, Interfax expands. The claimants submitted an appeal to Moscow City Court which, however, recognized the previous decision lawful. Lawyers of the victims’ relatives have declared their intention to address the International Court in Strasbourg, news agency adds.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Dec 15, 08, 10:17 / #
It seems rewards for "drivers, typists and ordinary soldiers" involved took place. We must stop allowing Russia to say it was not them it was the Soviets actions. As Russia protects the criminals. Researcher Nikita Pietrov has got hold of a list of officers of the NKVD - a forerunner to the KGB - who participated in the Katyn massacre, where up to 22,000 Polish officers were murdered in prison camps and forests in Russia. The head executioner turns out to be the then 45-year-old Vasilij Blochin. Making his first kill of Russian dissidents in 1927 he went on to execute people regularly for the next 29 years, causing the death of an estimated 50,000. polskieradio.pl/thenews/human-interest/?id=98101

Lotnik767Threads: 6 Posts: 210 Joined: Nov 12, 08	Dec 15, 08, 10:28 / #
It's all Russians that did that no doubt in that! And there has to be a way for those barbarians/ with out soul Russians to pay I hope some one day will make things right!

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Dec 21, 08, 20:59 / #
Thread attached on merging: All archives on Katyn case transferred to Poland, Russia’s FSB says It seems we are moving in the right direction. Federal Security Service (FSB) of the Russian Federation transferred to Poland all the documents avaiable concerning the Katyn case, execution by the troops of the Soviet People's Commissariat of Interior of 14,000 captured Polish officers in 1940, news agency Interfax reports. However, as the head of Department of registration and archival funds of the FSB of Russia, Lieutenant- General Vasily Khristoforov noted, the most part of the archives on Katyn events had been destroyed back in the 1950s. Besides, according to Khristiforov, there is no such thing as a single archive on Katyn tragedy. The documents which are directly or indirectly related to the execution of Polish officers are scattered throughout most different Russian archives. The criminal case on execution of captured Polish officers near Katyn was brought in August 1990, however, in 2004, the Main Military Prosecutor’s Office passed a decision on the termination of investigation on the ground that the employees of the People's Commissariat of Interior guilty of the execution are already dead. On May 22, 2008, relatives of the murdered Katyn officers addressed to the Khamovniky court of Moscow with the request to cancel the decision of the Main Military Prosecutor’s Office and rehabilitate the executed Polish officers. The court rejected the request, Interfax expands. The claimants submitted an appeal to Moscow City Court which, however, recognized the previous decision lawful. Lawyers of the victims’ relatives have declared their intention to address the International Court in Strasbourg, news agency adds. http://www.axisglobe.com/article.asp?article=1719

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Dec 22, 08, 00:29 / #
this is just a deflection of blame from the great killer himself.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 23, 08, 04:18 / #
best thing what Russia can do for Slavic world is to satisfy elementar justice speaking of Katyn issue Russia should simple ask Poland.... What Russia can do to correct injustice done to Poland and Poles?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 23, 08, 04:39 / #
The killing of 20,000 Poles cannot really be corrected unless one resorts to reciprocity. The best thing would be an admission of guilt and an acceptance by the relevant authorities that action should have been taken sooner. No use blaming modern day Russians for what happened that day.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 23, 08, 06:38 / #
Seanus: The killing of 20,000 Poles cannot really be corrected unless one resorts to reciprocity. The best thing would be an admission of guilt and an acceptance by the relevant authorities that action should have been taken sooner. No use blaming modern day Russians for what happened that day. this is how i see this problem is that Russians insist that they aren`t responsible because Katyn was `communist issue`. They insist that ethnic Russia didn`t commited planed genocide or mass killings of Poles. i could agree with that approach but on the other side some people of Russian ethnicity took part in execution of Poles, no matter that they wasn`t motivated with national feelings but were marrionetes of communists. In any case Russian responsibility exist and i agree, acceptance of responsibility should happened earlier, much earlier.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 23, 08, 06:44 / #
Aha, herein lies the dilemma. If I were to follow your logic to its natural conclusion, Crow, I'd reach the point where they made it a Polish issue through the imposition of communism. Regardless of what labels are attached, it's a criminal issue. To je kukavičluk (sorry, Wrocław)

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Dec 23, 08, 06:57 / #
Seanus: Aha, herein lies the dilemma. If I were to follow your logic to its natural conclusion, Crow, I'd reach the point where they made it a Polish issue through the imposition of communism. Regardless of what labels are attached, it's a criminal issue. To je kukavičluk (sorry, Wrocław) i`m completely objective here i clearly said that there is Russian responsibility (in any case) but, you must admit that example of Katyn can`t be compared with for example that what Germany planed for Poland/Poles. Germany promoted absolute extermination of Poles (classical example of genocid). Its different kind of responsibility where ethnic Germans planed and commited genocide and were happy to do that and maybe are even today happy (at least same ideology [Nazism] still exist and even strenghtening these days). What Russia wants to underline is that Katyn isn`t Russian ethnic responsibility and action. i also agree, it was criminal issue and `kukavičluk`, to say it was disguisting

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Dec 23, 08, 07:03 / #
My....you are really generous and forgiving if it concerns your slavic brothers Crowie!

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 23, 08, 07:06 / #
Then it is no better than passing the buck. Look at the Eichmann case and Nuremberg. The culprits were brought to justice. If the culprits are now dead, all that remains to say is 'c'est la vie' and rue a missed opportunity to haul them under the coals. Thinking in scale serves little purpose, such reductionist thinking flies in the face of the reality of killing. I've said it before, the heaviest penalties in law are reserved for murder, the taking of ONE other life. What about 20,000, Crow? Human life cannot be reduced to statistics and we cannot let ourselves think, oh well, millions were eliminated in the Holocaust, what's 20,000 more!? Serial killers take, what, 10-25 lives typically? We lock them away for good. They are psychologically ill also, insane in Scots Law anyway (total alienation of reason). As for those who carried out those summary executions, they may have suffered from diminished responsibility but I think otherwise. My point is, we need to step in as an international community. Not sit like crusty old, bearded academics with woolly jumpers.

szarlotkaThreads: 14 Posts: 3,349 Joined: Feb 20, 07	Dec 23, 08, 07:34 / #
Put me in off topic if you must but the thing I love about Crow's posts is the sheer number of new names for countires and regions they contain. Take Eurarabia for example. Next up Gondwanaland belongs to the Slavs. Continental Drift was a NATO plot.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Dec 23, 08, 07:45 / #
szarlotka: Put me in off topic if you must but the thing I love about Crow's posts is the sheer number of new names for countires and regions they contain. Take Eurarabia for example. Next up Gondwanaland belongs to the Slavs. Continental Drift was a NATO plot. no debt about it. You deserved off-topic. That i like with Polishforums.com. You know when you deserve THAT.... Well, best is when you walk on the edge of it but be carefull, you aren`t me ;) celinski: "Germany promoted absolute extermination of Poles" as did Soviets. `Germany` is ethnic term, `Soviet` is ideological construction. Seanus, is it possible that you don`t understand me?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 23, 08, 08:01 / #
Seanus: My point is, we need to step in as an international community. Not sit like crusty old, bearded academics with woolly jumpers. there is no justice for Slavs in international community ruled by hostile non-Slavs. Not to mention that so called west does not have moral right to judge to Russia. It would be much better that Slavic world condemn Russia for Russian failures and it is exactly what`s happening.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Dec 23, 08, 07:16 / #
Bratwurst Boy: My....you are really generous and forgiving if it concerns your slavic brothers Crowie! i had talks with numerous Russians. In their eyes Katyn looks disguisting and they feel only shame because of that what happened. There are rare Germans who could honestly regret what was done to Poles in WWII. Most of Germans in their heads simple thinks that `it was necessery` and many are ready to do what is necessery again. Today`s Poland obey to NATO/EU and it isn`t necessery. But, what tomorrow when Poles refuse Eurabia???

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 23, 08, 07:26 / #
Oh, Crow, I have to disagree with you here. Many Germans feel bad for what that Austrian did. I think it is the other way around, only in rare cases do they not feel regret.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 23, 08, 07:35 / #
szarlotka: Oh, Crow, I have to disagree with you here. Many Germans feel bad for what that Austrian did. I think it is the other way around, only in rare cases do they not feel regret. i hope that i am wrong and that you are right

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Dec 23, 08, 07:38 / #
Crow: Katyn can`t be compared with for example that what Germany planed for Poland/Poles. Germany promoted absolute extermination of Poles (classical example of genocid). "Germany promoted absolute extermination of Poles" as did Soviets.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 23, 08, 07:51 / #
You still haven't answered post 11, Crow

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 23, 08, 08:03 / #
Yes, I agree. How about the other main part of the posting, Crow?

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Dec 23, 08, 08:09 / #
Crow: Not to mention that so called west does not have moral right to judge to Russia. People have the right to judge other people reguardless of Slav status. Look at the judgement passed onto Nazi's (Stalin's insistence) and yet you can say Soviets should not be held to the same standard.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 23, 08, 08:11 / #
When life is involved, morality should be at the core.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Dec 23, 08, 08:19 / #
celinski: Look at the judgement passed onto Nazi's (Stalin's insistence) and yet you can say Soviets should not be held to the same standard. crime is crime. Promoters and executors of Soviet crimes deserved same standards as promoters and executors of Nazi crimes. Just, Nazism glorified German nation and was tool of German nation. Soviets glorified communism not Russian nation. That`s the difference. Even more, those were German scemes which penetrated communism into Russia.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 23, 08, 08:27 / #
Crime is crime, exactly. So, 20,000 is just a statistic then Crow? It has gone unpunished so far.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 23, 08, 08:44 / #
Seanus: It has gone unpunished so far. hardly. Russia suffered condemtion from entire Slavic world and from entire progressive humanity. Russia is already severly morally punished,... look at us how we speaks openly about Katyn. Just that official Russia admit what must be admited publicly and to start negotiations with Poland how to repay that what happened, at least to try to repay (let`s say that way but lost lives are lost for good, its fact).

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Dec 23, 08, 08:49 / #
Katyn is a dirty secret.Nobody will find out what really happened.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Edited by: Seanus Dec 23, 08, 08:49 / #
And you think that Russia really cares? Siding with Venezuela and Iran, threatening the use of nukes. Come on Crow, you are a smart guy. Think about it. Besides, you are once again detracting from the loss of life. I get condemned for profane language, proportionality of punishment and all that. 20,000 lives, cheaply taken. Condemnation is barely even a slap on the wrist. So, we impose sanctions, wow, not gonna work. Sorry, if condemnation is the maximum punishment for the taking of so many innocent lives, you lay down a dangerous precedent.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Dec 23, 08, 08:55 / #
Seanus: And you think that Russia really cares? Siding with Venezuela and Iran, threatening the use of nukes. Come on Crow, you are a smart guy. Think about it. Besides, you are once again detracting from the loss of life. I get condemned for profane language, proportionality of punishment and all that. 20,000 lives, cheaply taken. Condemnation is barely even a slap on the wrist. So, we impose sanctions, wow, not gonna work. Sorry, if condemnation is the maximum punishment for the taking of so many innocent lives, you lay down a dangerous precedent. Russia care. Russia must care Everything will be ok with Poland and Russia. Serbians guaranted it. We need that, we want that and when we want something we get that, we are Serbs.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Dec 23, 08, 08:59 / #
Is Russia stonewalling? Lets look at Polish demands. Asking for disclosure and the best place is the Hague Court. Truth and its acceptance by the Russians is the only justice available to the victims and Poland as a nation. This was murder that was ordered by the State and signed off by every member of the Politburo. With our information and documents we need to demand that the crime be condemned as Genocide by the Russian Federation and by World Court. Food for thought, From what I learned the only way that we will finally reveal the full story is when the Russians decide to de-Stalinize and de- Leninize Russia. That is unlikely in the near future, since Russia is in the hands of former KGB. When the Russians do that, the rest of Europe will no longer have to fear them. Until that time they will remain a feared outcast. Not to be trusted.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jan 29, 09, 06:37 / #
How sad for the ones seeking justice. Russia high court ends Katyn massacre appeals 1 hour ago MOSCOW (AP) — Russia's Supreme Court has rejected appeals to re-open the investigation into the World War II era massacre of Polish military officers and intellectuals by Soviet secret police. The decision announced Thursday ends years of efforts by Polish families to get Russian authorities to re-examine the 1940 killings in forest near the city of Katyn. Around 20,000 Polish officers, intellectuals and priests were killed by Soviet agents in the spring of 1940 near Katyn, now located in the ex-Soviet republic of Belarus. The Soviet Union in 1990 acknowledged that dictator Josef Stalin ordered the killings. In 2004, Russia's top military prosecutor closed the investigation after concluding that the massacre did not constitute genocide. http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5jivhZDPln5xifW3N86nT j_o7sbwQD960OST80