Partitions and Modern Polish Culture

pawian:

If that`s the case, and if people in the region retained their anticommunist attitude, then I am ready to say I am terribly sorry. But vaguely, there are results of elections stored in my memory which suggest that poor regions like Suwalszczyzna voted post-communists because it is their true preference.

mamthew42Threads: 1 Posts: 1 Joined: Apr 16, 09	Edited by: mamthew42 Apr 16, 09, 16:59 / #
I have to write a paper for my Eastern Europe class. I chose Poland as the country because it interests me, and when finding a narrower topic, finally decided on how the Partitions (all six times) have affected modern Polish culture. This includes both how the cultures of the countries occupying Poland may have influenced it culture-wise and how the polish people may have reacted to being occupied (such as becoming more nationalistic because of the unwelcome presence). Unfortunately, days of searching both the internet and libraries has turned up little to no leads and the rough draft for the paper is due very soon. Any help would be much appreciated. Links to articles would be great, but even just telling me personal observations or giving me suggestions on how to narrow down the topic further would be fine.

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Apr 16, 09, 18:30 / #
Use PF's search tool, browse the politics and history threads and see who has posted what and try to work out who is really Polish, who is pseudo-Polish and who isn't Polish at all. That may give you some modern reflections. Remember to search messages rather than just topics as this will give much more results. Some good search terms may be things like "second republic" (without quotation marks). Stuff might turn up all over the place if you're lucky, maybe even in food or language threads. If you can't find what you want, post something controversial and someone will pounce on you.

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08	Edited by: Borrka Apr 16, 09, 18:36 / #
First, you have to be more specific on what you are looking for (elements of the culture). Look what does Wiki present as its definition of culture ! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Culture It's impossible to give you any serious answer unless you try to narrow your question.

mamthew42Threads: 1 Posts: 1 Joined: Apr 16, 09	Apr 16, 09, 18:50 / #
Yeah, I was told that I had to narrow it down, too. Unfortunately, I'm not sure which aspect of culture would yield the best results, mostly because I haven't found much of anything on the partitions that wasn't just militarily historical. If I had something to go on, it'd help. I guess the first big split is would it be easier to find things related to art, music, language, etc. or things related to behaviors, attitudes, etc? The latter would probably be narrow enough for a paper to work, while the former would have to be broken down again into one specific part. I've thought this all through, I just haven't had enough of a starting point to get to...a starting point...

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Apr 16, 09, 18:59 / #
mamthew42, I have seen (and read some) works on the subject. They offered varying degrees of detail, but all were in Polish. If you are a researcher you should perhaps try you luck with a history department of some Polish universities, or start with http://www.historycy.org.

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08	Apr 16, 09, 19:00 / #
mamthew42: things related to behaviors, attitudes, etc? Definitely this part will be much easier . Art, music, language were by far less influenced by political situation. With exception for Polish literature maybe.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,387 Joined: May 30, 08	Apr 16, 09, 21:46 / #
mamthew42: I have to write a paper for my Eastern Europe class. I chose Poland as the country because it interests me, and when finding a narrower topic, finally decided on how the Partitions (all six times) have affected modern Polish culture. By partitions Poles understand the ones in 18 century - 1773, 1793, 1795. There were 3 partition zones: Russian, Austrian, Prussian. The end of partitions came in 1918. A few random remarks on cultural differences which exist till today: Poles in former Prussian partition are considered well-organized, diligent, accurate, dutiful, abiding to law. They learnt theses feaures from their German occupiers to avoid depolonization and save their identity. Poles in Austrian zone were the poorest of all. Galicia poverty was proverbial. Peasants emigrated by tens of thousands. Till today farmers` fields in southern Poland are the smallest of all. Southern Poland is a traditionally Catholic region which almost always voted anticommunist parties and politicians. It is different in central and eastern Poland, once under Russian partition, which often voted post-communist or socialist. It was best visible in 1990s. A few kilometers to the north of Krakow there is a monument which marks the border between the Austrian partition with Krakow and Russian one with Warsaw. It seems that Krakowians are proud of being under the Austrian occupation which was the mildest of the three. Poles had a lot of rights in it, they could even be elected to the Austrian parliament, sth unthinkable in Russian or German zones. Let someone add more

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon Apr 16, 09, 21:51 / #
pawian: It is different in central and eastern Poland, once under Russian partition, which often voted post-communist or socialist. It was best visible in 1990s. If you claim PiS to be post-communist and socialist then I can agree.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,387 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Apr 16, 09, 21:55 / #
Salomon: If you claim PiS to be post-communist and socialist then I can agree. Dear Solomon, you are not Polish to the best of my knowledge. That is why, you should be careful with what you write. :):):):) And careful with what you read in people`s posts. :):):):) Why? You seem to have missed one sentence: it was best visible in 1990s. Secondly, PiS is a right-wing party when it comes to ideology, but socialist in economic matters. Did you know about it? :):):):)

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon Apr 16, 09, 21:56 / #
pawian: Dear Solomon, you are not Polish to the best of my knowledge. That is why, you should be careful with what you write. :):):):) And careful with what you read in people`s posts. :):):):) I am 100% Polish :):):):) Why do you think that I am not Polish ?

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Edited by: Sasha Apr 16, 09, 22:49 / #
pawian: Salomon: I am 100% Polish :):):):) Why do you think that I am not Polish ? My general impression. Evoked by your vehement support for Polish close cooperation with Russia You're so foreseeable Pawy :( sighs Salomon: place where people with pro-russian views live in ... I'd say ... Łódz or people from lands regianed after WWII Gosh... o_O You have pro-Russian people?! Unbelievable...Those should be some monstrous half-breeds.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	Apr 16, 09, 23:01 / #
Sasha: You have pro-Russian people? I hope so. It would make a lot of sense for Poland to have at least decent relations with Russia for several reasons, one of them being the fact that Russia doesn't have any current or potential future territorial claims against Poland (which isn't that obvious in case of Germany). I can't believe that there are actually some people who act as if they believe that a permanent state of antagonism between Poland and Russia is somehow beneficial to us. It isn't.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,387 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Apr 16, 09, 23:12 / #
Salomon: Isn't central or eastern Poland inhabited by Poles ? Yes, but they are so.... odd. :):):) Salomon: Yes I know ... it is horrible. Religous Socialists ... I've never voted on them ;) Neither have I. Salomon: I have been born in Bydgoszcz like my parents and grand parents ... Nice city. I would like to revisit it one day. Did you fully renovate the Old Town houses? Salomon: To be honest If somebody told me to gues place where people with pro-russian views live in ... I'd say ... Łódz or people from lands regianed after WWII ... but for sure not eastern Poland... Yes, Łódź was always red. :):):) I meant north-east of Poland. You know, Suwałki etc. Sasha: You're so foreseeable Pawy :( sighs hahahahaha I am learning from you and Constantine the skill of progvocation. E.g., here is another lesson for me: Sasha: Gosh... o_O You have pro-Russian people?! Unbelievable...Those should be some monstrous half-breeds. :):) Torq: I can't believe that there are actually some people who act as if they believe that a permanent state of antagonism between Poland and Russia is somehow beneficial to us. It isn't. Probably there aren`t too many, Kaczyński brothers for example. Other mature Poles like me feel there is need for better relations but they don`t receive too much supportive incentives from Russians in order to overcome their natural suspicion. After all, they spent half their lives in communist Poland under Russian occupation. :):):) Fortunately, the younger generation is totally indifferent. :):):)

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Apr 16, 09, 23:39 / #
Torq: I hope so. So do I, Torq. There should be some sober dialogue between us. pawian: hahahahaha I am learning from you and Constantine the skill of progvocation. E.g., here is another lesson for me: Nay... :) Only Kostia, I'm just in a bully mood today. pawian: but they don`t receive too much supportive incentives from Russians in order to overcome their natural suspicion. Hey... don't lie! :P You get it from me. Isn't it enough?! :( Besides suspiciousness can't be natural... it's acquired. At that point I'm glad your younger generation minds are free of that tough heritage. Speaking for myself I can't say I'm indifferent.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,387 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Apr 16, 09, 22:00 / #
Salomon: I am 100% Polish :):):):) Why do you think that I am not Polish ? My general impression. Evoked by your vehement support for Polish close cooperation with Russia. You must come from central or eastern Poland which used to be Russian partition. :):):):):):) hahahahaha PS. Read my edition in above post.

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon Apr 16, 09, 22:17 / #
pawian: My general impression. And your vehement support for Polish close cooperation with Russia. You must come from central or eastern Poland which used to be Russian partition. :):):):):):) hahahahaha Isn't central or eastern Poland inhabited by Poles ? pawian: Secondly, PiS is a right-wing party when it comes to ideology, but socialist in economic matters. Did you know about it? :):):):) Yes I know ... it is horrible. Religous Socialists ... I've never voted on them ;) pawian: You must come from central or eastern Poland which used to be Russian partition. :):):):):):) hahahahaha I have been born in Bydgoszcz like my parents and grand parents ... To be honest If somebody told me to gues place where people with pro-russian views live in ... I'd say ... Łódz or people from lands regianed after WWII ... but for sure not eastern Poland...

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon Apr 16, 09, 23:38 / #
pawian: I meant north-east of Poland. You know, Suwałki etc. They fought against communists to 1954 ... there is not to many such regions in Poland. Sasha: Gosh... o_O You have pro-Russian people?! Maybe they are vicitmes of some occultistic experiments but yes they exist :)

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Edited by: Filios1 Apr 16, 09, 23:42 / #
pawian: mature (insert) Poles Aren't you missing something...? ; D LONG LIVE RUSSIA!

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,387 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Apr 17, 09, 00:20 / #
Salomon: They fought against communists to 1954 ... there is not to many such regions in Poland. If that`s the case, and if people in the region retained their anticommunist attitude, then I am ready to say I am terribly sorry. But vaguely, there are results of elections stored in my memory which suggest that poor regions like Suwalszczyzna voted post-communists because it is their true preference. http://www.wspolczesna.pl/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20080926/REG10/74 9516529 Sasha: There should be some sober dialogue between us. Without vodka no dialogue between Poles and Russians will succeed. Sasha: Hey... don't lie! :P You get it from me. Isn't it enough?! :( No, it is enough and a lot. You do display considerable fascination to Polish stuff. That is why I will reveal a secret of mine to you: I like Russians, they have always fascinated me. But I mean average people, not Russian leaders who are real monsters. Sasha: At that point I'm glad your younger generation minds are free of that tough heritage. You remember the photos from the Soviet cemetary, don`t you? Now imagine you live in 1632, twenty years after the Times of Trouble. What would you think about Poles? Do you understand now the mental burden we adult Poles carry? :):):) Filios1: pawian: mature (insert) Poles Aren't you missing something...? ; D Yes, you are right. Mature is too big word here. Let`s say adult instead. :):):)

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon Apr 17, 09, 00:35 / #
pawian: If that`s the case, and if people in the region retained their anticommunist attitude, then I am ready to say I am terribly sorry. But vaguely, there are results of elections stored in my memory which suggest that poor regions like Suwalszczyzna voted post-communists because it is their true preference. Arent you able to find last election results ? :) Your memory is simple wrong. Use google and type "Wybory parlamentarne w Polsce w 2007 roku"

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Apr 17, 09, 14:54 / #
mamthew42: Links to articles would be great, but even just telling me personal observations or giving me suggestions on how to narrow down the topic further would be fine. Why not write about the city of Bielsko-Biala? Now it is one city but back in the day Bielsko was in the part of Poland partitioned by Germany and Biala was in the Austrian bit.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08	Apr 17, 09, 15:28 / #
Salomon: Łódz or people from lands regianed after WWII ... but for sure not eastern Poland... Neither Warszawiacy Butchering Praga Warsaw uprising

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Apr 17, 09, 15:51 / #
Mr Grunwald: Neither WarszawiacyButchering PragaWarsaw uprising We have quite good contacts with Ukrainians ... and they have done more bad for Poland. Poland isn't saint as well. I have pro-Russian views because I consider it to be the best choice for Poland.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08	Apr 17, 09, 16:04 / #
Salomon: Ukrainians ... and they have done more bad for Poland The Cossack uprising wasn't that but, historically yes. If your talking about "Cossacks" murdering/raping in Warsaw on German side im sorry they were Russians. UPA/OUN was an terroristic organisation. Do you judge Afganistanians if Taliban has made something cruel to you? Thoose weren't very nice to other Ukrainians too. I have hard time understanding you. Well maybe I/you don't know what pro-Russian is. For me trading/having good relations is just manners nothing else and good buisness. Having no problems in "Russia" taking over Poland or considering Poland as THEIR backyard is Pro-Russian for me.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Apr 17, 09, 19:51 / #
Thanks for kind words, Pawian. pawian: You remember the photos from the Soviet cemetary, don`t you? pawian: Now imagine you live in 1632, twenty years after the Times of Trouble. What would you think about Poles? I think it's a bit different. Still and all we had the common enemy and those flowers put on graves were for brothers-in-arms not for invaders, whereas "the Smuta" you meant had been solely a Russian-Polish issue. Salomon: I have pro-Russian views because I consider it to be the best choice for Poland. I am glad you realize it. Just wait some time. Russian government the way it currently is not ready for constructive dialogue. But honestly I don't see now anything that could stop putin's hegemony.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,387 Joined: May 30, 08	Apr 17, 09, 19:57 / #
Salomon: Arent you able to find last election results ? :) Your memory is simple wrong. Use google and type "Wybory parlamentarne w Polsce w 2007 roku" Without googling it I can try to guess - they voted PiS?? :):)