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Poland: dont blame us its the Germans.


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Wroclaw Boy Edited by: Wroclaw Boy   May 15, 09, 21:39 /  #
A Pole here raised a point here which ive been thinking about over the last day or two: He said the Polish people continue to complain and blame WWII on what ever and whom ever based on the fact that they live it and breath it every day.

Ive always known Poland had issues and the reasons for them, or so I thought. Many issues can be traced back to the above occupation and the aftermath.

I mean if i'd come form a country that had been under occupation for most of my life i'd be pretty pissed off too.

Brits love to complain about Poles complaining, would we complain under similar circumstances??
Grzegorz_Threads: 80
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Wroclaw Boy:
would we complain under similar circumstances??

You do without them...
osiolThreads: 59
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Fashions come and fashions go, but the blame game lasts for ever. Who is it fashionable to blame today?
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osiol:
Who is it fashionable to blame today?

Heterosexuals...
Wroclaw Boy   May 15, 09, 21:54 /  #
Im not saying they blame it on anyone although they do love to blame the Brits. Fact is their pissed and they do live it everyday, i live it everyday when im here.
McCoyThreads: 46
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Grzegorz_:
Heterosexuals...

and christians and white europeans.
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Wroclaw Boy:
i live it everyday when im here

I know exactly what you mean Mr WB!
Wroclaw Boy Edited by: Wroclaw Boy   May 15, 09, 22:18 /  #
The Japs can almost be forgiven for bombing Pearl Harbour but the Germans im not so sure thay can ever be forgiven...... What they did is so much more than war and it seems as though popular German people were behind the Fuhrer..

Sorry to be big headed but im just loving the new avatar, ive ben training hard the last two months.
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Joined: Mar 10, 08 		  May 15, 09, 22:23 /  #
Wroclaw Boy:
the Germans im not so sure thay can ever be forgiven......

It is not beyond any nation to do such atrocities.

Wroclaw Boy:
it seems as though popular German people were behind the Fuhrer..

The fuhrer was the most popular person.


I find though that "West" europeans focus on WWII and that most Poles are still pissed off with the last invading force and infiltration, The Red army.
Wroclaw Boy   May 15, 09, 22:29 /  #
SeanBM:
It is not beyond any nation to do such atrocities.

beyond no, thats why we hold the big guns.

SeanBM:
The fuhrer was the most popular person.

up untill he took Czekoslowakia by force then it basically became a roller coaster of in or out.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  May 15, 09, 22:32 /  #
What a pathetic view, WB. Hitler was a madman who rose to power without anybody blocking him. Successive generations have condemned him, the Austrian, and castigated his deeds and foul statements. Don't let a dislike for the Germans block the fact that others have moved on. What they did was horrible but what good does being hateful now do?
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Joined: Mar 10, 08 		Edited by: SeanBM   May 15, 09, 23:23 /  #
osiol:
Fashions come and fashions go, but the blame game lasts for ever. Who is it fashionable to blame today?

I would still like clarification about this.

Are you suggesting that it is "fashionable" to blame?.

Seanus:
Hitler was a madman who rose to power without anybody blocking him.

I think that was his point.

All that it takes for evil to triumph is for good men to do nothing
Wroclaw Boy Edited by: Wroclaw Boy   May 15, 09, 23:38 /  #
Seanus:
What a pathetic view, WB.

I dont think many Poles having lived under communism most of their lives woud agree.

Seanus:
Hitler was a madman who rose to power without anybody blocking him.

OK, great you had this all figured out from the start.

Seanus:
Don't let a dislike for the Germans block the fact that others have moved on.

Who's moved on you? me? were not Polish which is the whole point of this thread, did nazism or communism directly affect your upbringing?

Seanus:
What they did was horrible but what good does being hateful now do?

teach to others its not correct to behave like that - just look at Aushwitz..

Youve taken 1 and 1 and made 1323, man youre alomost a full blow Pole.
SeanBMThreads: 41
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Wroclaw Boy:
Youve taken 1 and 1 and made 1323

Quick give him a Euro or two ;)
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Joined: Oct 19, 07 		Edited by: lesser   May 15, 09, 23:45 /  #
Hey Seanus, tell him that you must to deal with Maggie Thatcher! This is worse than communism and fascism all together. :))
Wroclaw Boy Edited by: Wroclaw Boy   May 15, 09, 23:46 /  #
Eagerly awaiting your response Seanus....

Just realised I clocked 2000 Posts, 4 posts ago. COME ON, hey thats one hell of an achievement.. that'll go down on my CV, if i ever have one....
SeanusThreads: 22
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Well, they lived in different times so that's their gig.

I wasn't alive then but I know the policy of appeasement and missed messages.

It doesn't matter my upbringing at this moment. It matters that we can move on.

Everyone knows it was evil what the Nazis did but I'm more concerned about how we wrote down, as an international community in Auschwitz, that history would not repeat itself and it did in the 1990's. In Rwanda too.

So, WB, where is your criticism of those more recent events?
Wroclaw Boy   May 16, 09, 00:37 /  #
Seanus:
What they did was horrible but what good does being hateful now do?

Seanus:
So, WB, where is your criticism of those more recent events?

What do you want me to run around the streets screaming or SMG, to answer your above question and dont beat around the bush, you know exactly what im talking about youre just tryintg to squirm your way out of a situation which you dug.... Glorification has only one colour you knew it but you guessed wrong dude.
SeanusThreads: 22
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I'm talkin about moving on and letting sleeping dogs lie. Some can't bury the hatchet and that's fine, let them feel that. The Allies triumphed and the world unfolded as it did, I don't think about the atrocities that much but I feel sorry for those who suffered loss at the hands of the Nazis.
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Joined: Jan 3, 09 		Edited by: jwojcie   May 16, 09, 01:07 /  #
Wroclaw Boy, you need to introduce some nuances. Poles blame past generations of Germans, not current (or at least we try to make that distinction). Fortunately there is no concept of vendetta in Polish culture... That is why we are able to move on with Germany, and still have some problems with finding common ground with Russia. Generation of German invaders is almost gone, last generation of Russian communists currently rules in Russia... Fortunately last generations of Russian communists used much milder tools in order to rule CEE area. So we have not to many reasons to blame them... but, ex-KGB agent as their president/prime minister wasn't easy to swallow...

PS. I've noticed (on internet forums) that expats living in Poland tends to acquire Polish "complaint syndrom" in time, especially during autumn and winter times... So, maybe it is just a weather... ;-)
SeanusThreads: 22
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No concept of vendetta in Polish culture?? I think some know the meaning of 'odwet' i 'zemsta' here, let's not kid ourselves.
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Seanus:
No concept of vendetta in Polish culture??

Of course not.
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What nonsense, Greg. Go and ask those in Wołomin and Pruszków.
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Joined: Feb 21, 09 		Edited by: SzwedwPolsce   May 17, 09, 12:58 /  #
Wroclaw Boy:
Germans im not so sure thay can ever be forgiven


Hitler and his allied Nazis will never (and should never) be forgiven.

But there are very few Germans living today that have anything to do with the WWII Nazism, blaming them just shows lack of intelligence. Then there are the German neo-nazis, and I don't mind if they are buried 6 feet under as soon as possible.
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WB, SwedishPoles is right. His commentaries are balanced and right on the mark. Yours? Well, I'll let others be the judge of that.
MatyjaszThreads: 2
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SzwedwPolsce:
But there are very few Germans living today that have anything to do with the WWII Nazism, blaming them just shows lack of intelligence.
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SzwedwPolsce:
But there are very few Germans living today that have anything to do with the WWII Nazism, blaming them just shows lack of intelligence.

Not really. Blaming them shows a deep sense of christianity. The concept "of the original sin, you know ;)
SeanusThreads: 22
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Yes, that's the Biblical perspective but what about the norms and precepts we have built up independent of the religious dimension? Forgiveness is divine being one of them.

I'm with SP on this one. The Nuremberg Trials at least caught some of the guilty parties. There's no sense in blaming modern-day Germans.
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Joined: Feb 21, 09 		Edited by: SzwedwPolsce   May 17, 09, 15:00 /  #
z_darius:
Blaming them shows a deep sense of christianity. The concept "of the original sin, you know

From that perspective we all have so many sins and much evilness that we can judge everyone on earth for something really terrible that our ancestors did.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Exactly. Besides, what about repentance? I bet you some Germans felt ghastly about what they were ordered to do. Although I personally subscribe to the belief that most of them were more than mere 'cogs in the wheel', many of them must've felt bad for what they were ordered to do.
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