"Poles Raise Germany’s Nazi Past as Economic Crisis Spreads East "

May 20 (Bloomberg) -- Germany is trying to rewrite the history of its ties with Poland, which it occupied during World War II, Polish opposition leader Jaroslaw Kaczynski said, straining ties between the two countries as Germany’s economic slowdown spills over into its eastern neighbor.

“The Germans are trying to deny their guilt for the Holocaust,” Kaczynski said today. “If things go on like this, Poland will be asked to pay compensation for German soldiers who died during the Warsaw Uprising,” he added, referring to resistance against the Nazis in the Polish capital in 1944.

Kaczynski was commenting after the German periodical Der Spiegel said this week that Hitler’s Holocaust could never have taken place without the support of local populations in occupied Europe. So many Poles denounced Jews to the Nazis that a special name was invented to describe them, the article said. Kaczynski’s Law & Justice party appealed today to Foreign Minister Radoslaw Sikorski to “intervene” on the article.

Der Spiegel said this week that Hitler’s Holocaust could never have taken place without the support of local populations in occupied Europe.

...it will for the first time put the foreign perpetrators in the spotlight of world publicity. They are men who have until now received surprisingly little attention -- Ukrainian gendarmes and Latvian auxiliary police, Romanian soldiers or Hungarian railway workers. Polish farmers, Dutch land registry officials, French mayors, Norwegian ministers, Italian soldiers -- they all took part in Germany's Holocaust...

...Institute for Contemporary History estimate that more than 200,000 non-Germans -- about as many as Germans and Austrians -- "prepared, carried out and assisted in acts of murder." And often they were every bit as cold-blooded as Hitler's henchmen.

It is estimated that between 1.6 and 2 million people [9] were expelled from their homes during the German occupation of Poland. Only the German organized expulsions affected directly 1,710,000 Poles.[8] Additionally, 2.5 to 3 million Poles were taken from Poland as labourers to Germany to support the Nazi war effort.[5] These numbers do not include people arrested by the Germans and sent to Nazi concentration camps.[9]

In many instances, Poles were given between 15 minutes and 1 hour to collect their personal belongings (usually no more than 15 kilograms per person) before they were removed their homes and transported east (see: deportations)

In addition to about three million Polish Jews (mostly killed in Operation Reinhard), 2.5 million non-Jewish Polish citizens perished during the course of the war.

In the killing fields of Eastern Europe, there were up to 10 local helpers for every German policeman.
The ratio is similar in the extermination camps. Not in Auschwitz, which was run almost entirely by Germans, but in Belzec (600,000 killed), Treblinka (900,000 deaths) or in Demjanjuk's Sobibor. There, a handful of SS members were assisted by some 120 Travniki men.

Heh...some uncomfortable truths some people just don't want to hear!

BB the point is not accuracy of these truths because thats indisputable, the point is the intention of forwarding these facts, the intention is to shift part of the blame and in the process lessen German responsibility.

They will never mention it ... never... for them Their plan of exterination of Polish nation didn't exist. It is very interesting fact. ...

Just like Poles will never mention the plan that their government had to reduce the number of non-Poles in Poland to 1% of the population, a plan which was carried out by Polonization.

or in Demjanjuk's Sobibor. There, a handful of SS members were assisted by some 120 Travniki men.

So please excuse me when nobody is crying...

In German-occupied Poland the task of rescuing Jews was especially difficult and dangerous. All household members were punished by death if a Jew was found concealed in their home or on their property

A number of Polish individuals, organizations and communities attempted to rescue their Jewish neighbours. While actively resisting German occupation, Poles organized one of the largest underground resistance movements in Europe (Polish Underground State and its military arm, the Armia Krajowa). Supported by the Polish government in exile, these organizations within their structures operated special units dedicated specifically to helping Jews; of those, the most notable was the Żegota organization.

Government Delegation for Poland, in Warsaw. Żegota's express purpose was to aid the country's Jews and find places of safety for them in occupied Poland. Poland was the only country in occupied Europe where there existed such a dedicated secret organization.

There, a handful of SS members were assisted by some 120 Travniki men.

That doesn't mean that those men were Poles: they weren't. The name Trawniki comes from the place where they were trained. According to survivor testimony, the Trawniki men were Ukrainians (although there were some Polish Volksdeutsch who also worked at Sobibor).

Nobody helped more for Jews than Poles... :-) You can't change it...

For decades some people wallowed in their victim status, demanding apologies, money, tears, support, cowing Germany whatever...

Perhaps the nazis would have dusted off the Madagascar plan and transported the popluation of Poland to Madagascar.

That would be because you wrecked our country, murdered our people and drained our economy, this makes German attempts to shift the blame even more outrageous.

but as a Pole i cannot agree for my country to bear even an ounce of blaim for genocide that Germans planned and carried out especially after the losses Germany incurred upon Poland.

Somehow that didn't help the most of them...oh wonder...

Both Jews and Poles were hampered by some of the most extreme conditions in all of German–occupied Europe. The Nazi German plans for Polish Jewry was one of concentration, isolation, and eventually, total annihilation. In occupied Poland any kind of help to a person of Jewish faith or origin was punishable by death. Thousands of Poles were murdered by the Nazis for offering assistance to Jews.

See it as a healthy reaction after years and years of overdosing "war blaming" especially by Poles....:)

We just have enough of it and pay some back...you don't like it? To bad!

Thousands of Poles were murdered by the Nazis for offering assistance to Jews.

As to Poles durring WWII :

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Polish_Righteous_among_the_Nations

What i dont like is people like Steinbach being the authors of this rewriting, and the first people who'll feel the pain are you, the Germans.

Speaking personally, i accept it as a completely predictable feature of human nature, your nation was left with an unbearable heritage, its not a reaction to Poles or anyone in particular rather than a reaction to a nation wide psychological burden.

Although given that the largest population of Jews in Europe was that in Poland

You are so right!

eventhougth Poles helped the most.

If so many Jews made carrer in communist Poland.

Don't overestimate the depth of our psyche...most of us have absolutely no problem with the War or the Holocaust...

I personally for example are even militarily and historical interested and love talking about our troops (if that is what you call "trauma" then okay

...but you know what? During the last years somehow it stopped hurting!

It feels good actually...very good...expect more of it to come! :)

Salomon Edited by: Salomon Today, 19:33

How many of the 280,000 Jews who survived the holocaust and returned to Poland made careers in the communist party?

Julia Brystiger (née Prajs), born November 25, 1902 in Stryj, died November 9, 1975 in Warsaw, was a Polish Communist activist and a member of the Stalinist apparatus. She was also known as Julia Brystygier, Bristiger, Brustiger, Briestiger, Brystygierowa, Bristigierowa, and by her nicknames Luna, Bloody Luna, Daria, Ksenia, Maria. The nickname Bloody Luna was a direct reference of her Gestapo-like methods during interrogations

She was the daughter of a Jewish pharmacist from Stryj. In 1920 she graduated from a high school in Lwow; later, she studied history at the Lwow University. In 1920, she married a Zionist activist Natan (Nathan) Brystiger[2], and a year later she give birth to a son Michal.

Some time in the late 1940s, she became the head of the V Department, which specialized in the persecution of religion. Brystygier a dogmatic Marxist, yearned to destroy all religion as an "opiate for the masses" [8]. She directed the operation to arrest and detain the Primate of Poland, Cardinal Stefan Wyszynski, although the decision to arrest him had been made earlier in Moscow. Brystygier took an active part in the "war against the religion" in the 1950s, in which only in 1950, 123 Roman Catholic priests were arrested. She also persecuted other congregations, such as the Jehowa Witnesses. Julia Brystygier left the Ministry of Public Security in 1956 and tried to become a writer, authoring a novel "Krzywe litery".

Go away please.

The most in terms of raw numbers

Personally i believe that in the future you'll have a divided Germany with three sides to a conflict, neo-nazi extreme right, their german oposition and the turks tugging their side, it may lead to civil war, civil unrest, lots of stuff depending on how extreme it becomes, none of it good for you.

Again its not something you wear on your shoulder, but its there, why do you think Germany became a timid benefactor to European community? You did not change because of some magic fairy, you changed because the world showed you concentration camps and it frightened the living shite out of common Joe German, and its still here when his kids who had nothing to do with it are adults.

If it stopped hurting Steinbach wouldnt get such a following

You will not admit it to me, or probably to yourself but it doesnt feel good, thats why whats happening is symptomathic, your history is not comfortable and you're trying to do something about it.

but Nazis wont just lie down, in the past Germany unleashed unbealiavably destructive forces abroad, now they're poised to turn inwards so yeah you should be concerned.

But as long as the economy keeps up and Germany stays rich and wealthy there won't be any civil war or revolution...that is just not our forte, never was, isn't in our character!

30 years war? 7 years war? Extremely serious communist riots post WW1? It doesnt take a crystal ball, all it takes is history and ability to draw conclusions.

I wonder why the nazis didn't build a death camp in Holland.

The most in terms of raw numbers but no nation lost more Jews than Poland did. 95% of Danish Jews survived the holocaust, 85% of Polish Jews did not.

In fact, I'm making him an honorary Polak.