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Rabbi Aviner: Poles – who collaborated with Nazis


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celinskiThreads: 83
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  Feb 25, 09, 15:01 /  #
This from a Rabbi? I had to write a post on this one.

I would pray that Rabbi Shlomo Aviner’ standing is questioned and he is educated as to the plight of the Polish.

Polish suffered as much, if not more than Jewish victims under Nazis and Soviets. Not only do I feel Rabbi Aviner puts others at risk with his obvious prejudicial views his lack of historical facts are appalling.

How and why you printed Aviner’ statement is in question? That is unless you wanted to bring to light the misrepresentation of the Polish to put stop to this corrupt teaching


Prominent Zionist rabbi says leaving Land of Israel not for sake of mitzvah banned, as is helping Poles – who collaborated with Nazis – make living out of death camps


'Why should Nazi collaborators benefit?'
Another argument against visiting the camps, according to the rabbi, was the fact that the Polish people "collaborated with the Nazis" and were now making a living off of these visits. "I'm not busy holding a grudge against the Poles, but we shouldn't provide livelihood to people who allowed death camps to be built on their land and who are now making a profit out of it.

"They are not my friends and I don't want to support them."

According to Aviner, it was not accidental that the Nazis chose to erect the extermination camps in Poland. "They knew that the people would do nothing. One person was enough to blow up the railroad tracks. Why wasn't this done? Because they all said, 'good,' smiled and waited for what needed to be done to be done by the Nazis.

Many Jews who escaped from the camps were later murdered outside by the Polish resistance. When the Jews came back to the city their housees were inhabited and they faced a pogrom. To this day trials are being held against Poles who stole houses," he concluded.

[url=http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3675990,00.html][/url]

TrevekThreads: 33
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  Feb 25, 09, 15:10 /  #
celinski:
"They knew that the people would do nothing. One person was enough to blow up the railroad tracks. Why wasn't this done? Because they all said, 'good,' smiled and waited for what needed to be done to be done by the Nazis.

Hmmm, so why did no Jewish group do it? Just exactly WHAT were the average villagers supposed to do to stop a highly trained Nazi army unit from taking Jewish prisoners away?

Funny thing that so many camps were built in Germany before the war but nobody did anything about them either.

Of course, Poles said to the Nazis "Just pretend to invade and kill our soldiers, murder a few of us, strip us of our culture, even put a few of us in the camps too... that way it won't look like we're collaborating!" (YEAH, RIGHT!)

The strange thing about Auschwitz is that it is stressed that the Jewish prisoners thought they were being moved to a new life in the east (hence the suitcases etc). Now this is also used as a reason why Jewish resistance was so limited. Funny how the Jews are allowed to have believed this but if the Poles did then they were collaborating.
SokratesThreads: 19
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  Feb 25, 09, 15:12 /  #
I'd love to trow up on that nutters shoes just to make a point.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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  Feb 25, 09, 15:19 /  #
This rabbi talks crap!

Why were those camps build in Poland??? Ever heard of logistics?
We build the camps where the Jews were, that's why!
ZIMMYThreads: 10
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  Feb 25, 09, 15:30 /  #
I too have had conversations with Jews who hate Poles. One in particular said, "I wish that 90 percent of Poles were killed just like the Jews...." I asked her why she felt this way and she replied that "Poles hate Jews from the moment they are born, from their mother's milk"."

I advised her of her prejudice but she was incapable of seeing it. This woman was otherwise very liberal in her beliefs and politics.
celinskiThreads: 83
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  Feb 25, 09, 15:36 /  #
Bratwurst Boy:
We build the camps where the Jews were, that's why!

I tend to believe Nazis' built them first for Polish, it was not until Nazi's went after Soviets' (large number of Jewish military in Soviets, 55%). This is why in 1941 and not 1939 that Jewish were the target.
TrevekThreads: 33
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  Feb 25, 09, 15:40 /  #
celinski:
I tend to believe Nazis' built them first for Polish,

Jews weren't the main inmates of Auschwitz for a couple of years (until about '41/'42). It was mainly Polish intellectuals.
celinskiThreads: 83
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  Feb 25, 09, 15:45 /  #
Trevek:
It was mainly Polish intellectuals.

Right, Stalin and Hitler were going to split Poland. That changed when Nazis attacked Soviets, and in turn many Jewish as Jewish say the Soviet were on their side. They were until Soviets got all of Poland and by then it was to late to over take Soviets with help from Poland. We never hear of the Jewish military under Soviets that were killing Polish.
HarryThreads: 62
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  Feb 25, 09, 15:48 /  #
celinski:
I tend to believe Nazis' built them first for Polish, it was not until Nazi's went after Soviets' (large number of Jewish military in Soviets, 55%).

Yes Carol but you are so staggeringly stupid that nobody cares what you think. Do you have any sources for your claim that 55% of the Soviet military was Jewish? Or are you just talking out of your arse yet again?

And did you notice the bit in your post where it says "According to Aviner, it was not accidental that the Nazis chose to erect the extermination camps in Poland."? When were the extermination camps built? Hint: it was after the invasion of the USSR....
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy   Feb 25, 09, 15:49 /  #
celinski:
his is why in 1941 and not 1939 that Jewish were the target.

The Jews were made to live in Ghettos till the final solution geared up later, non-jewish Poles not!
celinskiThreads: 83
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Edited by: celinski   Feb 25, 09, 15:51 /  #
Bratwurst Boy:
The Jews were made to live in Ghettos till the final solution geared up later

Black book lists the first victims and all Polish were skum.

This can be found on Amazon, I might add from the review of
Review of The Lost: A Search for Six of the Six Million, by Daniel Mendelsohn 2007. Harper Perennial, New York.

Reviewer: Mr. Jan Peczkis

While confined to the ghetto, the Jewish community had to deal with collaborationist Jewish policemen. These are recalled unfavorably by elderly Jewish survivors (p. 392), who evidently don’t support the premise that the desperate circumstances excused their conduct. Also, a group of fugitive Jews who had been denounced by fellow Jews: “‘You see, the Germans implanted spies’, Jack continued. ‘That means, Jews who ran away, they were spying on the group and revealing everything. I imagine they were being forced or blackmailed into betraying them, somehow, something.’” (p. 149).



As for other historical topics, Mendelsohn touches on the 5-7 million Ukrainians murdered by the Soviets (pp. 454-455), the Nazis’ extermination of Poland ’s intelligentsia (e. g., pp. 458-460), their sparing of the Karaites (pp. 340-341), the Soviet betrayal of the Warsaw Uprising (p. 426), etc. However, his mention of the Danes’ rescue of Jews (pp. 403-404) omits three important facts: The extreme mildness of the German occupation, the prolonged cooperation of a key German official, and the hefty payments required by Danes to ship the Jews to Sweden . Overall, though, it is obvious that Mendelsohn has done his historical homework.




SokratesThreads: 19
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  Feb 25, 09, 16:05 /  #
Harry:
Yes Carol but you are so staggeringly stupid that nobody cares what you think.

You're no nobel prize winner yourself.
Harry:
Or are you just talking out of your arse yet again?

http://www.prawica.net/node/5657 Jews in the Red Army.
Harry:
And did you notice the bit in your post where it says "According to Aviner, it was not accidental that the Nazis chose to erect the extermination camps in Poland."? When were the extermination camps built? Hint: it was after the invasion of the USSR....

Logistical reasons, most Jews were in Poland so it was easier to off them on the spot.
pawianThreads: 90
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Edited by: pawian   Feb 25, 09, 16:20 /  #
Sokrates:
http://www.prawica.net/node/5657 Jews in the Red Army.

Firstly, do you really need to give links to such shitty sites? Aren`t there professional ones really, based on historic research?
Secondly, why don`t you check the contents before giving the link? The article isn`t really about Jews in the Red Army.
Go back and read it.
If you want your arguments to sound serious, you must be prepared to a discussion.


celinski:
Polish suffered as much, if not more than Jewish victims under Nazis and Soviets.

How is it possible?
celinskiThreads: 83
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  Feb 25, 09, 17:36 /  #
Harry:
Do you have any sources for your claim that 55% of the Soviet military was Jewish? Or are you just talking out of your arse yet again?

Sorry it is upwards of 50%.



pawian:
How is it possible?

Jewish count the deaths by Nazis' not Nazis' and Soviets'. Poland lost their country to "Communism" just as Jewish lost a home they claimed to have in Poland prior to 1939.
ela_lawyerThreads: 7
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  Feb 25, 09, 17:42 /  #
Take a look at this article. Truly absurd diatribe. It is borderline with Holocaust revisionism. The difference is, the prominent Zionist Rabbi Shlomo Aviner doesn't deny the holocaust like Bishop Richard Willimason does. Instead, he collectively accuses an entire country (Poland) and people (Polish Catholics) of collaborating to murder the European Jews. It's interesting how he uses the term "Nazi", but carefully refrains from ever using the words "German" or "German Death Camps".

Note: My use of "Poles" in the title refer to "Polish Catholics".

- he stated that trips to Poland were "not good" due to the halachic ban on leaving Eretz Israel, and because they "provide livelihood to murderers." In his view, those 'murderers' are the Poles, all of them.

- he stated that the Polish people "collaborated with the Nazis" and were now making a living off of these visits. His quote: "I'm not busy holding a grudge against the Poles, but we shouldn't provide livelihood to people who allowed death camps to be built on their land and who are now making a profit out of it.

- he stated "They are not my friends and I don't want to support them.", referring to the Poles.

- According to Aviner, it was not accidental that the Nazis chose to erect the extermination camps in Poland. "They knew that the people would do nothing. One person was enough to blow up the railroad tracks. Why wasn't this done? Because they all said, 'good,' smiled and waited for what needed to be done to be done by the Nazis.
HatefulBunch397Threads: -
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  Feb 25, 09, 17:48 /  #
celinski:
Polish suffered as much, if not more than Jewish victims under Nazis and Soviets. Not only do I feel Rabbi Aviner puts others at risk with his obvious prejudicial views his lack of historical facts are appalling.

I totally agree. Poland was caught in the middle of two evil regimes and I don't see how they can be blamed for them.
time meansThreads: 9
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  Feb 25, 09, 17:48 /  #
interesting piece.
ela_lawyerThreads: 7
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Edited by: ela_lawyer   Feb 25, 09, 17:53 /  #
Why aren't people like this Rabbi ostracized and denounced by prominent members of the Jewish community for such statements, like Holocaust deniers are? You saw the rage throughout the media about Bishop Richard Williamson, right? Many prominent members of the Catholic community spoke against him after his comments. So, where is the ADL, JDL, etc.? Are they going to comment on Rabbi Shlomo Aviner's comments, or stay silent as usual? Is the world press going to make this an issue, or 'silence' it, as usual?
ela_lawyerThreads: 7
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  Feb 25, 09, 17:54 /  #
Just a reminder. Celinski made a post about this a bit before I did on another thread.
celinskiThreads: 83
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  Feb 25, 09, 17:54 /  #
HatefulBunch397:
totally agree

Its Anti-Polonism and it must be stopped.

ela_lawyer:
My apologies for not seeing your post earlier

:) its OK as long as people see what is taking place. What is sad is reading the posts and the ones that go along with this nut case. IMO Polish people really have to speak out on what really took place in Poland vs. places like Israel as well as mis informed across this Nation. Because Poland was silenced by Communism the false history has grown like a cancer making Polish look worse than Nazis or Soviets. Have you seen that Holocaust has less written on Soviet behavior than Polands?
IronsE11Threads: 2
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  Feb 25, 09, 18:11 /  #
celinski:
the false history has grown like a cancer making Polish look worse than Nazis or Soviets.

Funny, that's exactly what you do with the British. People in glass houses and all that...
celinskiThreads: 83
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  Feb 25, 09, 18:15 /  #
IronsE11:
that's exactly what you do with the British

If you are referring to betraying Polish I believe we have a post for this so stop changing the subject as this is to important to ignor. Thanks, :)
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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  Feb 25, 09, 18:24 /  #
ela_lawyer:
It's interesting how he uses the term "Nazi", but carefully refrains from ever using the words "German" or "German Death Camps".

Why is that a problem for you?
ela_lawyerThreads: 7
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Edited by: ela_lawyer   Feb 25, 09, 18:24 /  #
Why aren't Rabbi Shlomo Aviner’s comments about the holocaust treated as historical revisionism with the same ferocity that of other revisionists? Why hasn't one major newspaper denounce his statements in an Editorial or make it a front page article? Why hasn't any prominent Jewish organzation denounced his comments?

His statements just ruined many years of joint cooperation, historical dialogue, and mending between Polish Catholics and World Jews. Very sad.
ela_lawyerThreads: 7
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  Feb 25, 09, 18:31 /  #
Bratwurst Boy:
Why is that a problem for you?

Clearly, it was the Germans who implemented the death camps to murder Jews and Slavs, and it was Germany that started WWII. The general media too often avoids using "German" and substitutes "Nazi" instead as a way to shift blame from the one ethnic group to another.
SokratesThreads: 19
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  Feb 25, 09, 18:34 /  #
Bratwurst Boy:
Why is that a problem for you?

BB i understand you dont like that i wouldnt too but the fact is that this anti-polish fuck avoids saying that Nazis were German to imply an equation between Poles and Nazis.

He cant say openly "Poles were Nazi and murdered Jews" so he puts some mysterious "Nazis" without nationality next to the POLISH people in his sentences forming an intentional anti-polish implication.
time meansThreads: 9
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Edited by: time means   Feb 25, 09, 18:36 /  #
ela_lawyer:
His statements just ruined many years of joint cooperation, historical dialogue, and mending between Polish Catholics and World Jews. Very sad.

i think you are going over the top here. why do the ramblings of some old guy upset you so much, what`s his opinion worth?
SokratesThreads: 19
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  Feb 25, 09, 18:38 /  #
time means:
i think you are going over the top here. why do the ramblings of some old guy upset you so much, what his opinion worth?

Because they reflect the outlook of a majority of Jews who are just less open about that, there's been recently a turn for the worse in the joint relations because of that, polish side is developing a "fuck you" outlook on their relations with Jews because of people like him.
ela_lawyerThreads: 7
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Edited by: ela_lawyer   Feb 25, 09, 18:46 /  #
time means:
i think you are going over the top here. why do the ramblings of some old guy upset you so much, what his opinion worth?

According to "Ynet Israeli News", Rabbi Shlomo Aviner is a "Prominent Zionist rabbi", not just some plain old guy. He is a pillar in his community and his views are reflected in the media all over. His comments just appeared in JTA (Jewish Telegraph Agency), and that online website did not denounce him as well. So, by staying silent, they are really accepting his views.

Now, please answer my question: Why are people such as Catholic Bishop Richard Williamson, or David Irving taken so seriously? They make 'world headlines' and Christians and the Vatican are practically forced to denounce and apologize for their inaccurate views.
Grzegorz_Threads: 81
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Edited by: Grzegorz_   Feb 25, 09, 18:50 /  #
celinski:
This from a Rabbi?

From a pieace of shit imitating homo sapiens. Human beings can't be that stupid.

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