Sarmatia Europe - Could it be political reality?

Crow:

so what?

yes, they control it (currently!) but, exactly such a developement helping that things in case with idea of `Sarmatia Europae` (let`s use this term) becoming reality and that more and more people realize that EU isn`t solution. Not that EU isn`t solution but EU must be recognized as part of problem and should be replaced with something what promissing better and sustain future for Slavs and those who see itself in close relations with Slavs.

EU is German tool and let it just continue to serve Germany. There is available alternative for Slavs.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 2, 08, 15:00 / #
let us investigate this question, already mentioned in context of many other threads. Seams to me it could be interesting i have been reading a book, written and published in English called `Europe and the Czechs`. The main reason I bought it was because it was published in 1938 - pre war before Czechoslovakia lost its territory and then 1939 was made a puppet state in Nazi Germany. The book deals with the geography, history, politics and other issues and is a small biography of the Czech people, land and political situation at the time. Now, to my point. Most of the book you may say is not really that interesting, only if you find the Czech land and people/politics interesting themselves, but I came to a page which lists the demands of the Czecho-Slovaks which they put to the allies at the end of the first world war at a time preciding to creation of the Czechoslovak state: [citation] 1. The three historic lands of the Bohemian Crown, Bohemia, Moravia and Silesia. 2. The maintenance of thier former frontiers with slight changes to the advantage of Czechoslovakia. 3. The incorporation of Slovakia. 4. The incorporation of Sub-Carpathian Ruthenia. 5. The creation of a corridor connecting Czechoslovakia to Yugoslavia 6. The internationalisn of certain rivers. 7. Protection for Czec minority in Vienna. 8. Assistance for the Slav minority in Germany (Wends) I was very happy to read that the Czechoslovaks at the time wanted to have a direct link with Yugoslavia and indeed wanted to assist the Slavs namely Wends or Sorbs (they call themselves -Serbs) of Germany. I would also underline that Kingdom of Yugoslavia and Czechoslovakia had established secret military alliances before WWII. The European powers obviously didn`t agree to demands 5 and 8 but at least the Czechoslovaks had the feeling and agenda to try and have some kind of Pan-Slavic unity with western and southern Slavs. Already they had joined Czechs, Slovaks, Ruthenians and a Polish minority together and wanted to do more. It was walk on the old path of Great Moravia and before that Sarmatia, particulary - Sarmatia Europae. Then, these days i had an opportunity to read one article on the Net, which seams more and more interesting to me. It would be valuable for disscusion here. POLSKA PANORAMA Plight of Central European Nations in the Wake of Western Oder Demise Ignacy Nowopolski polskapanorama.org/plightofeuropean.html In such instance, there is going to be a necessity to stabilize and secure the region. This may be accomplished by some form of cooperation between Central European nations. In order to survive, these nations must overcome mutual animosities, which currently enable their enemies from the west, east, and south to successfully employ ancient divide et impera strategy. The answer is in the creation of some sort of “Centroslavia”. Failure to achieve this will not only put at risk their “magnificent” future in EU, but the very basic survival.

Del boyThreads: 22 Posts: 318 Joined: Jun 29, 07	Edited by: Del boy Nov 2, 08, 15:27 / #
Crow, your next lecture should be Titus Komarnicki Rebirth of the Polish Republic.Study in the Diplomatic History of Europe 1914 - 1920. London 1957, Heinemann Ltd. Try get it on ebay. Ive got one already, great stuff.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Nov 2, 08, 15:56 / #
Crow: Sarmatia Europe - Could it be political reality? No,because it is against interests of the West.

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Nov 2, 08, 16:12 / #
It is not really an idea that is in many people's minds. Building bridges should go further than just with those who speak a similar language who also happen to have some historical similarities. Why not reach out further? For example, I'd like to teach the world to sing... in perfect harmo-nee.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Nov 2, 08, 16:16 / #
The Czechs will accept this because the Czechs go where the wind blows. The Slovaks will be the militant elements inside and the Serbs the concrete which can stick the Slavs together. The Poles will not join because in this way they become more vulnerable to Russians(as they think) and they try to avoid that.Belarus and Ukraine can join from opportunistic reasons. Generally in my opinion the whole panslavic issue grew on the ground of Austrohungary style of administration as a reaction to this style and an orientation of slavic folks inside Austrohungary to a slavic unity instead of a german ruled unity of free will or not free will Slavs.However the concept was quite weak and did not get a solid form,serving more as inspiration to sovereignity movements.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Nov 2, 08, 16:32 / #
osiol: Why not reach out further? For example, I'd like to teach the world to sing... in perfect harmo-nee. human life seams too short to achieve such a great ideals. Also, on that path one always must be ready to sacrafice many of his own and in the same time can`t be sure what would get in return. It is sane to go step by step and first to consolidate your own civilization, learn about itself expiriancing full freedom and independance

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Nov 2, 08, 16:37 / #
I think Osioł was referring to a specific song here Crow, I think u went in too deep. I can't remember the song by artist but I know the one

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Nov 2, 08, 16:54 / #
Crow: It is sane to go step by step I agree. I'd say though, that the step you wish to take is beyond reach in the sense that it leaves many people out of the equation who also would like to see some kind of unity across Europe. I'm not specifically talking about the EU here either. Seanus: can't remember the song by artist but I know the one It's pretty awful. Brotherhood of Man?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 3, 08, 06:13 / #
i think that this can work (map, just as example, a working version)... modern day political realm of Sarmatia Europae doesn`t include exclusively that what we call Slavic countries. It is more then that but, yes- Sarmatia Europae should be based on Slavic heritage, as balance to that what is EU, which is based on Greak, Roman, Jewish and Germanic traditions. Simplisticaly speaking, just to give you picture, in ``Sarmatia Europae`` Slavic languages (or for example something as Slavic `esperanto` - Slovio) should be that what is English in EU or USA, Australia, Canada. Slovio http://www.omniglot.com/writing/slovio.htm Slovio is a simplified Slavonic language devised by Mark Hucko intended as an international auxiliary language comprehensible to speakers of all Slavonic languages, who number about 400 million. Slovio alphabet & pronunciation - combination fo Latin and Cirilic letters Del boy: Titus Komarnicki Rebirth of the Polish Republic.Study in the Diplomatic History of Europe 1914 - 1920. London 1957, Heinemann Ltd. Thanks for suggestion, i`ll try to found it

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 3, 08, 07:28 / #
speaking about historical background of Sarmatia Europae (latin term)... Roxolans http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Roxolans New DNA data show that Sarmatians are ancestors of Slavs, were never destroyed, are most dominant ethnic group in Europe. Sarmatia Europea in Scythia map 1697 AD Sarmatia Europae separated from Sarmatia Asiatica by the Tanais (the River Don), based on Greek literary sources, in a map printed in London, ca 1770 Great steppe in early spring. Sarmatia Europae - in map of Scythia, 1697 "Sarmatia Europae" separated from "Sarmatia Asiatica" by the Tanais (the River Don), based on Greek literary sources, in a map printed in London, ca 1770 THE SCYTHIANS, SARMATIANS, MEOTIANS, RUSSIANS AND CIRCASSIANS: INTERPRETATION OF THE ANCIENT CULTURES by Sergei V. Rjabchikov public.kubsu.ru/~usr02898/sl2.htm ...the Scythian (Sarmatian) language is the Proto-Slavonic one. Other Proto-Slavonic dialects are the languages of the Pelasges (the writing of Linear A, and its decorative version on the Phaistos disk) and of the Etruscans (Rjabchikov 1998a). Countries with majority Slavic ethnicities and at least one Slavic national language

DaisyThreads: 16 Posts: 2,172 Joined: Apr 28, 07	Nov 3, 08, 07:51 / #
maps...charts....wolves....when did Łukasz take over Crow?

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Nov 3, 08, 08:03 / #
Crow: isn`t it obvious :) :-))) we can have a pint or two and discuss this. much better than reading alone.

DaisyThreads: 16 Posts: 2,172 Joined: Apr 28, 07	Nov 3, 08, 08:05 / #
<div class="quoting">Crow: BDW, where is Luk? he is still on forum?</div> he said his goodbyes the same as you did I'm sure you know where he's gone ;) is he posting on that other forum you belong to?

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Nov 3, 08, 09:37 / #
Crow: THE SCYTHIANS I strongly believe that the Scythians were ancestors of Slavs.The descriptions of their appearance and customs by ancient Greeks are very close to the appearance and customs of today's Slavs.Scythians lived in the area over the Danube river and nobody managed to conquer their land.(Persian army risked total extermination and Dareus was saved at last moment by throwing away his King's clothes and riding a horse to reach Danube bridges fast after abandoning his camp and remnants of his army to Scythians who destroyed the Danube bridges in no time). I also think that today's Serbs are a mix of Illyrians and Scythians-Protoslavs and that Bulgarians are a mix of Thracians-Scythians-Mongols while the Shriptars or Albos are not descendant of ancient Illyrians but came to the today's region of Albania 1000 years ago coming from Caucasus.(a complicated story).That's why albanian language has almost no illyric words at all while it resembles a lot to the languages spoken in Caucasus by Ingushetians,Chcechens etc in Dagestan,Ingushetia,Chcechnya.This is the area where today's Albanians came from.(it is the serbian theory with which I agree).

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Nov 3, 08, 07:53 / #
Crow: i have been reading a book, written and published in English called `Europe and the Czechs`. do they not have pubs out your way? :-)

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 3, 08, 07:54 / #
Daisy: maps...charts....wolves.... no charts, only maps and wolves ;) Daisy: when did Łukasz take over Crow? BDW, where is Luk? he is still on forum? time means: do they not have pubs out your way? :-) isn`t it obvious :)

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 3, 08, 09:36 / #
Daisy: he said his goodbyes the same as you did heh Daisy: I'm sure you know where he's gone ;) is he posting on that other forum you belong to? i didn`t know about it but, now i know. Anyway, he would found that i`m again here and he would eventualy come again to take part in party ;) Hey Luk- son of Poland, wherever you may be on the Net, i salute you. God bless you man Slavija Majka! Slavija Besmrtna!

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Nov 3, 08, 10:27 / #
Could it be political reality? No. Crow, has the KLA & the NATO move into Kosovo hurt the Serbs as far as the heroin trade goes?...Do Albanians control it all now, or do Serbs still have a piece?

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Nov 3, 08, 11:01 / #
Its difficult

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 3, 08, 12:57 / #
joepilsudski: Crow, has the KLA & the NATO move into Kosovo hurt the Serbs as far as the heroin trade goes?...Do Albanians control it all now, or do Serbs still have a piece? so what? yes, they control it but, exactly such a developement helping that things in case with idea of `Sarmatia Europae` (let`s use this term) becoming reality and that more and more people realize that EU isn`t solution. Not that EU isn`t solution but EU must be recognized as part of problem and should be replaced with something what promissing better and sustain future for Slavs and those who see itself in close relations with Slavs. EU is German tool and let it just continue to serve Germany. There is available alternative for Slavs.

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Nov 3, 08, 13:04 / #
Gimme some time. I'm just going to do some colouring in with a map I just found...

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Nov 3, 08, 13:08 / #
joepilsudski: Crow, has the KLA & the NATO move into Kosovo hurt the Serbs as far as the heroin trade goes?...Do Albanians control it all now, or do Serbs still have a piece? The heroin trade was always in the hands of albanian mafia.In fact it is one of the main contributors to income of Kosovars.Heavy trade takes also place in the albanian harbours from where the stuff is transported to Italy and Western Europe.A proud narco-state no.2 blessed.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Nov 3, 08, 13:14 / #
Crow: so what? yes, they control it (currently!) but, exactly such a developement helping that things in case with idea of `Sarmatia Europae` (let`s use this term) becoming reality and that more and more people realize that EU isn`t solution. Not that EU isn`t solution but EU must be recognized as part of problem and should be replaced with something what promissing better and sustain future for Slavs and those who see itself in close relations with Slavs. EU is German tool and let it just continue to serve Germany. There is available alternative for Slavs. OK, so maybe in the "Sarmation Union' (SU), Serbs will run heroin, Poles mnufacture and distribute meth...OK...Now, what will be the government of the SU?...Will it be a 'Parliamentary Democracy', a monarchy, will it be ruled by a 'strong man'...What do you have in mind?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 3, 08, 13:28 / #
joepilsudski: OK, so maybe in the "Sarmation Union' (SU), Serbs will run heroin, Poles mnufacture and distribute meth... be serious. Try to be serious. Guaranteed, no visas for Russians, i`m sure. ;) joepilsudski: OK...Now, what will be the government of the SU? OK, as you said, now seriously... :) i suggest confederation of states. How sound - `Sarmatian Confederation`? joepilsudski: Will it be a 'Parliamentary Democracy', a monarchy, will it be ruled by a 'strong man'...What do you have in mind? I think that 'Parliamentary Democracy' could be all right. 'strong man'? not sure What you think about 'Parliamentary Monarchy' in this situation?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Nov 3, 08, 13:44 / #
Which bloodline do you have in mind for the throne?

DaisyThreads: 16 Posts: 2,172 Joined: Apr 28, 07	Nov 3, 08, 13:46 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Which bloodline do you have in mind for the throne? No prizes for guessing it won't be you ruling Crow's company of wolves

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Nov 3, 08, 13:47 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Which bloodline I hope it will not be an Albo.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Nov 3, 08, 13:53 / #
Daisy: No prizes for guessing it won't be you ruling Crow's company of wolves Heey...Aren't we all just lost slavic brothers....erm...and sisters of course? :)

DaisyThreads: 16 Posts: 2,172 Joined: Apr 28, 07	Nov 3, 08, 13:55 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Heey...Aren't we all just lost slavic brothers....erm...and sisters of course? :) I'm sure Crow has an explanation

PiorunThreads: - Posts: 741 Joined: Nov 11, 07	Nov 3, 08, 14:06 / #
Crow: i think that this can work This map reminds me of Piłsudski idea of “Międzymorze”.