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Scotland and Poland. Mutual connections since 1576


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Del boyThreads: 22
Posts: 318
Joined: Jun 29, 07 		  Sep 3, 08, 06:43 /  #
Here is a link to the website about XVI c relation between Scots and Poles
http://www.scotland.org/about/history-tradition-and-roots/features/cul ture/1576.html
Nice bit of history about golden age of Poland
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  Oct 1, 08, 17:04 /  #
This thread has potential. It dropped without contact. 1576 is a bit too far back but it's worth mentioning that many Scots went to live in Poznan. Poles also helped us in WWII.
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Oct 1, 08, 17:29 /  #
Del boy:

since 1576

On and off.
MatyjaszThreads: 2
Posts: 1,786
Joined: Jul 20, 06 		  Oct 2, 08, 00:56 /  #
Seanus:

This thread has potential. It dropped without contact. 1576 is a bit too far back but it's worth mentioning that many Scots went to live in Poznan. Poles also helped us in WWII.


Yeah, quite a number of Napierała's and Napieralski's living in this neck of the woods. I recently started to wonder whether Machulski or Maklakiewicz aren't surnames that came upon from Scottish surnames.
jonniThreads: 26
Posts: 4,181
Joined: Nov 27, 07 		  Oct 2, 08, 13:54 /  #
According to friends, Machulski and Machalski are indeed from Scottish roots.

Have a look on Wikipedia about 'Wymysorys' = Wymysorys

Sadly, almost nobody in Poland seems interested in preserving it.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  Oct 2, 08, 14:38 /  #
Yeah, in Scotland we like to say, 'am offski'. Amowski, could be a hidden tribute to Poland there.
MatyjaszThreads: 2
Posts: 1,786
Joined: Jul 20, 06 		  Oct 2, 08, 16:32 /  #
Seanus:

Yeah, in Scotland we like to say, 'am offski'. Amowski, could be a hidden tribute to Poland there.




What does it mean?

Ohh Seanus, Machulski is the name of "Seksmisja's" director. :)
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  Oct 2, 08, 16:34 /  #
I'm going now, offski is used in Glasgow for I'm going now.

I've only seen Sex Mission once
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,387
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 		  Oct 2, 08, 17:16 /  #
Guys, don`t forget masses of Scottish mercenaries who visited Poland on various occasions, mostly with invading armies. Where do our Polish red-haired types come from?
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 		  Oct 2, 08, 18:04 /  #
Seanus:

offski'

Off-licence (liquor store) that sells Polish beer.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  Oct 3, 08, 10:20 /  #
That's probably it Osioł, lol
LukaszThreads: 73
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Joined: Sep 1, 07 		  Oct 3, 08, 10:32 /  #
pawian:

Where do our Polish red-haired types come from?


I don't think so :)

blue eyes
RomekThreads: -
Posts: 9
Joined: Oct 4, 08 		Edited by: Romek   Oct 4, 08, 12:04 /  #
We will see how new polonisation will look like. British are more individualistic than Jews it should be easier.
jonniThreads: 26
Posts: 4,181
Joined: Nov 27, 07 		  Oct 4, 08, 19:32 /  #
Romek:


We will see how new polonisation will look like. British are more individualistic than Jews it should be easier.


What's that got to do with the price of fish? Where do Jewish people come into the equation?

I smell anti-semitism...
WroclawThreads: 77
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Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]  Pictures: 3 		  Oct 5, 08, 06:01 /  #
I have a theory, with no real evidence to back it up.

Is it possible that some of those with Scottish roots were in fact Border Reivers ?

This is a group of people who would fit into any army, as mercenaries. Great horsemen with fighting skills to match.

The Border Reivers were kicked out of northern England - southern Scotland in the late 1500's early 1600's. Either that or hanged without trial.
eric_the_naveThreads: -
Posts: 47
Joined: Jul 27, 07 		  Oct 5, 08, 06:25 /  #
The Polish food kaczanka (hope my spelling is close) seems very similar to haggis. Maybe it was bought to Poland by these Scottish immigrants???
DaisyThreads: 16
Posts: 2,172
Joined: Apr 28, 07  Pictures: 2 		  Oct 5, 08, 06:26 /  #
Wroclaw:

Is it possible that some of those with Scottish roots were in fact Border Reivers ?

The Border Reivers had specific family names, so it would be very easy to trace. The book 'The Steel Bonnets' lists those names
WroclawThreads: 77
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Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]  Pictures: 3 		  Oct 5, 08, 06:37 /  #
Daisy:
The Border Reivers had specific family names, so it would be very easy to trace.


I had this in mind. But it's not so easy. One story is that the Graham family were shipped to Holland (I think) and years later The Dutch Maharg family slowly moved back into Scotland.

I might look into this because I've never actually read about Reivers moving to Poland.
DaisyThreads: 16
Posts: 2,172
Joined: Apr 28, 07  Pictures: 2 		  Oct 5, 08, 06:43 /  #
Wroclaw:

I might look into this because I've never actually read about Reivers moving to Poland.

Let us know if you find anything
WroclawThreads: 77
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Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]  Pictures: 3 		Edited by: Wroclaw   Oct 5, 08, 06:54 /  #
Daisy:
Let us know if you find anything


I've just entered: border reivers in poland ... into the search box and found that they did move to Poland. Amazing eh! I now might have family in Poland that I never knew about.

borderhorse.org ...In the section Geography, History, Culture... mentions Reivers in Poland.

It just shows that some of us might be closer than we think.
DaisyThreads: 16
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Joined: Apr 28, 07  Pictures: 2 		  Oct 5, 08, 08:41 /  #
Thanks
osiolThreads: 59
Posts: 4,714
Joined: Jul 25, 07 		Edited by: osiol   Oct 5, 08, 08:48 /  #
The Border Reivers were quite an unruly bunch. English, Scottish or neither as and when it suited them. About as varied in background as you can get in the British Isles - Pict, Scot, Welsh, Roman, Saxon, Viking... Is Armstrong a Reiver name? I heard that they had strong arms from all the cross-border rustling they got up to. Would they really have liked Poland?

It's interesting to see some of these Polonicised Scottish names. I assume there may very well have been more in the past. I haven't knowingly met anyone with a Polish-Scottish name though.
DaisyThreads: 16
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Joined: Apr 28, 07  Pictures: 2 		  Oct 5, 08, 09:18 /  #
osiol:

Is Armstrong a Reiver name

It is
WroclawThreads: 77
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Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]  Pictures: 3 		  Oct 5, 08, 09:19 /  #
With respect to the Reivers, my original thoughts were guided by wishful thinking.
Now I think that it is very probable that some families did come to Poland, but not all settled here. Most lists of Reivers give about thirty names. If any names, of those who stayed, were Polonicised then that group would be very small. Maybe as few as three or four. I don't know if that would make them easier or more difficult to find.
DaisyThreads: 16
Posts: 2,172
Joined: Apr 28, 07  Pictures: 2 		  Oct 5, 08, 09:23 /  #
Wroclaw:

I don't know if that would make them easier or more difficult to find.

But it would be intersting to research and find out
jonniThreads: 26
Posts: 4,181
Joined: Nov 27, 07 		Edited by: jonni   Oct 6, 08, 19:27 /  #
Apparently I'm one too. My surname is in the lists of reivers, and my people came from the borders (and most still live there).

This online surname map could be useful - some interesting things in it. Occasionally the site gets busy and the surname search goes down for a few minutes.
Filios1Threads: 15
Posts: 1,953
Joined: Nov 13, 07 		Edited by: Filios1   Oct 6, 08, 19:58 /  #
pawian:

don`t forget masses of Scottish mercenaries who visited Poland on various occasions, mostly with invading armies


At least theres one intelligent comment in this thread...

What did Scotland owe Poland? Nothing... What did Poland owe Scotland? Nothing... A few merchants trying to make an extra buck in one of the most democratic countries in Europe at the time... In fact, many Scots sided with the Swedes during the Deluge, as a sign of their gratefulness.
Sorry to break it to some of you, but theres no special attachement between the two countries.
jonniThreads: 26
Posts: 4,181
Joined: Nov 27, 07 		  Oct 7, 08, 06:47 /  #
No special attachment, but some interesting history. Polish mercenaries are known to have gone to the British isles with Canute's invasion, almost 1000 years ago, and the marriage between Bonnie Prince Charlie and Princess Clementina Sobieski is interesting enough.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 		Edited by: Seanus   Dec 27, 08, 08:41 /  #
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g3hAtxZXNrA&feature=related, Bluebell Polka by Jimmy Shand

You see, even in 1955 there were references ;)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRX4uHr5UZI&feature=related, here's another commonality, the love of the accordion. Akordeon in Polish I believe.

I'm sipping away at my 12-year old Ballantines and enjoying the sound. Too many flames on the boards of the forum of late, this is nice and light.
pawianThreads: 90
Posts: 5,387
Joined: May 30, 08  Pictures: 2 		Edited by: pawian   Dec 27, 08, 14:45 /  #
Seanus, I would like to administer a test to you. A test in Polish culture but connected with Scotland.

Who is a famous "Polish" Scot (some sources say he was an Englishman whose family had settled in Scotland) whom my generation admired for his bravery and honour?
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