Secret grave of Polish hero 'discovered'

Sigismund, regarding highly Zawisza's merits, sent a boat for him, ordering him to save himself. But Zawisza, a man avid for knightly glory, regarding it as an unworthy deed to leave his post or abandon his cavalry, thanked Sigismund for his favor but chose to die heroically at his position rather than diminish his glory by fleeing from the foe. Having mounted his horse and taken his lance in hand, with only two foot soldiers he went forth against the Turks and fought valiantly against them, but was surrounded by a large number and captured. Then an argument arose between two Turks, as each of them made out that he was the one who captured Zawisza. One of them, envious of the good fortune his more powerful antagonist would have from the Turkish Emperor if he presented Zawisza before him, cut off his head: his head, however, was brought before the Emperor, and the inhabitants of Rascja buried his body.

Eagle20Threads: 34 Posts: 130 Joined: Dec 12, 07	Jul 23, 09, 21:19 / #
The secret grave of General Emil August Fieldorf, one of Poland's national heroes, may have been found more than 50 years after he was executed by his own country's Stalinist regime. http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/poland/5887700/Secret -grave-of-Polish-hero-discovered.html

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Oct 15, 09, 14:24 / #
Scientists and historians intend to examine a plot of land in a Warsaw cemetery to see if it contains a mass grave that might include the body of Gen Emil August Fieldorf, a Polish wartime commander hanged by the communist state in 1953. Did the exhumations take place? If so was this the grave site of Gen. Fieldorf?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Oct 15, 09, 15:01 / #
grave? when we are at graves of heroes... Then, it would be wise if Poles ask their Turkish `NATO friends` where is the head of Zawisza Czarny (Zawisza the Black). While Serbians (Racowie) saved his body from the Turkish hands and burried his remains with honour, Turks managed to take head with them. Maybe now in time of globalization under almighty `NATO world policeman`, via NATO connections, Poles could get information about Zawisza`s head. I hope that my Polish sisters and brothers won`t failed to ask Turks about this matter. You know, Zawisha loved Poland- i mean, if anybody care about that in time of multiculturalism Sigismund, regarding highly Zawisza's merits, sent a boat for him, ordering him to save himself. But Zawisza, a man avid for knightly glory, regarding it as an unworthy deed to leave his post or abandon his cavalry, thanked Sigismund for his favor but chose to die heroically at his position rather than diminish his glory by fleeing from the foe. Having mounted his horse and taken his lance in hand, with only two foot soldiers he went forth against the Turks and fought valiantly against them, but was surrounded by a large number and captured. Then an argument arose between two Turks, as each of them made out that he was the one who captured Zawisza. One of them, envious of the good fortune his more powerful antagonist would have from the Turkish Emperor if he presented Zawisza before him, cut off his head: his head, however, was brought before the Emperor, and the inhabitants of Rascja buried his body. Source: http://www.polishroots.com/Resources/Heraldry/HerbSulima/tabid/196/Def ault.aspx Polish roots - Sulima herb

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,778 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Oct 15, 09, 15:03 / #
Eagle20: his own country's Stalinist regime. by traitors, scums, and soviet nkvd - in all occupation - not his own country !

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Oct 16, 09, 09:58 / #
sjam: Did the exhumations take place? ???

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Oct 16, 09, 15:51 / #
sjam: ??? yes- ??? listen what coming to my mind imagine that Tusk tries to remove body of Zawisza Czarny from Serbia to Poland, saying the words... ``and so, Poland is now modern and multucultural country. If alive Zawisza could be proud of Poland`s importance in international relations. Today we aren`t in war with Turks but, we are in alliance with them. We are claver. Our Turkish friends are now good to Zawisza`s head.``

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Oct 16, 09, 18:21 / #
Crow: yes- ??? Have you got a link for that? The only one's I can find say exhumations will be taking place not that they have taken place? Were Fieldorf's remains amongst those found? Were Pilecki's remains also uncovered?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Oct 16, 09, 22:40 / #
sjam: Have you got a link for that? what link brate? i only inserted situation of Zawisza Czarny in context of this thread. One need imagination to understand me. Empty people can`t understand idiotism of Tusk.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Oct 16, 09, 22:47 / #
I wonder what Polish leaders know of places outside Poland like the Russian cemetery in Vilnius (Wilno). It's called the Russian cemetery but many Poles died there. I was there at the end of August and took pictures of key graves decorated with Polish flags.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Oct 16, 09, 22:59 / #
Seanus: I wonder what Polish leaders know of places outside Poland Polish leaders are modern. They don`t give a sh for Polish places inside of Poland same way as they don`t give a sh for Polish places outside Poland

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Oct 16, 09, 23:05 / #
That's true! Junichiro Koziumi, ex-PM of Japan, still controversially visits shines in commemoration of past wars fought. Although he attracts rational criticism, he still has an appreciation of what soldiers did for his country. Maybe now that Poland have bailed out of the World Cup, Tusk will deflect his attention to such matters. I doubt it, though. I'm surprised that, in a country which tends to honour its national heroes, they could neglect a true legend. Crow, I look forward to meeting you when you come through to Gliwice. I will happily impart my 5 years of experience to you and spell out some home truths.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Oct 16, 09, 23:10 / #
Seanus: That's true! Junichiro Koziumi, ex-PM of Japan, still controversially visits shines in commemoration of past wars fought. are you aware that i never heard in my life that some Polish politician visited grawe of Zawisza Czarny in Serbia. NATO bombs damaged monument to Zawisza and local Serbs themselves rebuilded it. Poljaci, Poljaci

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09	Oct 16, 09, 23:18 / #
Seanus: I'm surprised that, in a country which tends to honour its national heroes, they could neglect a true legend. you miss a point here Seanus - the point that the country has divided heritage - do you think that those who ran this country for 50 years just vanished, didn't communist ruling class include journalists, lawyers, scientists (including historians) etc etc. Wasn't there a massive secret service to control the population?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Edited by: Seanus Oct 16, 09, 23:29 / #
That point didn't escape me, Gumi. I'm fully aware that many didn't vanish. Communism has, through time, been about stripping oneself of spots and going underground when needed, remaining latent all the while. All I wanted to say was that there was neglect in not honouring a legend. Don't go too deep! If the Polish interest was so well-defined, you'd have no reservations about reviewing the man's work and the impact he had.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Oct 16, 09, 23:17 / #
Some Poles need a rude awakening, Crow. They are a people open to manipulation in some ways. You can test people's awareness when you are here. Chat on the street and commercials are geared towards money-making and not historical wherewithal.

gumishuThreads: 17 Posts: 3,943 Joined: Apr 6, 09	Oct 16, 09, 23:40 / #
Seanus - the simplest thing - you can ask most people older than 30 who gen. Świerczewski was - and they will tell you (more or less precisely and elloquently) - and perhaps 15 per cent of most history conscious Poles will know who gen Fieldorf was and what was his story

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Edited by: Seanus Oct 16, 09, 23:44 / #
I'm not gonna contest that as I don't pretend to know. Maybe you are right, maybe you are wrong. I'll just be glad when I hear that the Polish national spirit is defined in a way different from parrying Russian threats and intrusion. Don't worry, many Scots are similarly naive in not seeing what we have to bolster our spirit. We still harp on about England but this is not the way forward.

Eagle20Threads: 34 Posts: 130 Joined: Dec 12, 07	Oct 17, 09, 10:24 / #
sjam: Did the exhumations take place? So far haven't been able to find an update to the story.

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Oct 17, 09, 10:51 / #
Eagle20: So far haven't been able to find an update to the story. Maybe permissions are still being obtained?

vahsek84Threads: 1 Posts: 5 Joined: Oct 24, 09	Oct 25, 09, 00:53 / #
More intersting than at least "15000 years old mummy unearthed"

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08	Oct 25, 09, 02:48 / #
vahsek84 I didn't know there were already Polish heroes 15000 years ago... >^..^< M-G (good night)

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,778 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Edited by: Ironside Oct 25, 09, 13:40 / #
MareGaea: I didn't know there were already Polish heroes 15000 years ago... You know, now! I-S (its good to learn something new)