Will Stalin be made a saint?

The despot, who executed and imprisoned millions of people, narrowly missed the top spot by 5,500 votes in the contest inspired by the BBC’s Greatest Britons.
More than a third of the country’s 143million population voted in the Name of Russia series, which crowned medieval war hero Alexander Nevsky who stopped invading Germans.
In second place came Pyotr Stolypin, the last tsar’s prime minister, who was assassinated amid a massive reform programme aimed at calming a growing Leftist rebellion in the early 20th century.
And despite the purges, deportations and Siberian Gulag labour camps that killed more than 20million of his own people, Stalin managed to carry third place.

tornado2007Threads: 20 Posts: 3,497 Joined: Jul 11, 07	Jul 28, 08, 18:17 / #
So whats the conclusion on MR Stalin??

Wahldo	Edited by: Wahldo Jul 28, 08, 18:26 / #
southern: Do you really think there was any likelihood that a girl could resist the charm of comrade Stalin? I wonder if the girl was taller.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,891 Joined: May 17, 07	Jul 28, 08, 18:59 / #
Wahldo: I wonder if the girl was taller. Do you think Uncle Joe was nurturing?

Wahldo	Jul 28, 08, 19:07 / #
southern: Do you think Uncle Joe was nurturing? sure he was, but only after he had toweled off.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,558 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Edited by: Sasha Jul 28, 08, 22:45 / #
celinski: Sasha: You know it too well I wish I didn't, but because I do we must make sure this never happens again. I said that ironically. If you did, you would as well know that Khruschev was an interested party there and you wouldn't base on that statement anything: celinski: his successor Nikita Khrushchev decided he had to investigate the astonishing rumour about the monster's sexual depravity. Not that I like Stalin. I obviously not, but your assertive will to additionally monsterize the monster to put it mildly doesn't make any sense to me. celinski: I see that Stalin was good looking, Hm... A short man with a progressive paranoia and a withered arm. That's an odd taste.

Wahldo	Jul 28, 08, 23:02 / #
Sasha: Hm... A short man with a progressive paranoia and a withered arm. That's an odd taste. .. the thing is, we know you have the mind, but are your people done with Uncle Joe?

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,558 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Edited by: Sasha Jul 29, 08, 00:56 / #
Wahldo: but are your people done with Uncle Joe? Might be interesting http://bd.english.fom.ru/report/cat/societas/rus_im/stalin/etb030809 http://bd.english.fom.ru/report/cat/societas/rus_im/stalin/eof013405 http://bd.english.fom.ru/cat/societas/rus_im/stalin/ other polls about Stalin you may be interested in Public Opinion Foundation or "Fond Obschestvennoe Mnenie" is a procremlin organization therefore their figures on Stalin's personality a bit tweaked, but I would say it's no more than 5-10% for Stalin. So if you substract 10% from prostalinists and add them to contrstalinists that will be pretty close to reality.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jul 29, 08, 06:57 / #
Sasha: other polls about Stalin you may be interested in They are very interesting, and I can see it even speaks on if the people are told the full truth. You need a freedom of information act in Russia. The Memory of Fear or the Fear of Memory? "The extent to which they are informed of their own past is temporarily and socially predetermined. This, in turn, affects the trust to and the appreciation of the contents of memory" http://bd.english.fom.ru/report/cat/societas/rus_im/stalin/ed030831

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Jul 29, 08, 07:57 / #
celinski: lol I am female that would not be jeolouse of 13 year old. I should say he was good looking when he was younger, so why did he have to go after a child. Did the real ladies know his true dark side. Because he could, age of consent in many countries is 14. Sasha: Yeah... and a meteorite may crush your house right now. I do hope not...I've just purchased a lovely frock from FCUK and intend to wear it this weekend... Back to saints...

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,558 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Jul 29, 08, 08:07 / #
ShelleyS: I do hope not...I've just purchased a lovely frock from FCUK and intend to wear it this weekend... Back to saints... I just meant chances were the same. :)

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Edited by: ConstantineK Jul 29, 08, 08:39 / #
ShelleyS: Whilst I'd like to act all shocked and appalled, I'm not, I do agree 13 is very young (too young), but physically a girl is becoming a woman and if their relationship was consensual, we live in times where teenage pregnancies are commonplace...so why so disgusted? I agree, the matter would take another turn if this child was a boy...., that would be really disgusting....

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jul 29, 08, 08:47 / #
ShelleyS: but physically a girl is becoming a woman and if their relationship was consensual, we live in times where teenage pregnancies are commonplace...so why so disgusted? Being a treatment foster parent for many years showed me the emotional damage to a child sexually active at 13. A child of 13 is not ready to understand the commitment she is making and the emotions are not mature. I stand by my strong stance, it is rape here in the States reguardless of consent. Like I stated pedofiles in the prison system will say a 1 year old wanted it.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Jul 29, 08, 09:01 / #
ShelleyS: I'd say more interesting than disgusting ..... Ha, girls always feels some sort of affectation about how it is happen between boys....some sort of curiosity

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,558 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Jul 29, 08, 23:27 / #
Wahldo: Seems to suggest the less educated still gravitate towards Stalin -- maybe a little similar to the under educated in the US and the current US president. Yeah. :) It's like everywhere I guess. Less educated sections of the population gravitate towards somebody who's on the same wavelength with them (speaks the way that they don't feel like taking an explanatory dictionary, feels uncomfortable with intelligentsia).

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jul 29, 08, 08:21 / #
ShelleyS: Because he could, age of consent in many countries is 14. She is reported to be 13.

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Edited by: ShelleyS Jul 29, 08, 08:27 / #
Sasha: I just meant chances were the same. :) I know, I was merely make a joke of it :) celinski: She is reported to be 13. Whilst I'd like to act all shocked and appalled, I'm not, I do agree 13 is very young (too young), but physically a girl is becoming a woman and if their relationship was consensual, we live in times where teenage pregnancies are commonplace...so why so disgusted?

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Jul 29, 08, 08:45 / #
ConstantineK: I agree, the matter would take another turn if this child was a boy...., that would be really disgusting.... I'd say more interesting than disgusting .....

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Jul 29, 08, 13:32 / #
tornado2007: So whats the conclusion on MR Stalin?? Hopefully, when pigs fly.

tornado2007Threads: 20 Posts: 3,497 Joined: Jul 11, 07	Jul 29, 08, 13:38 / #
celinski: Hopefully, when pigs fly. fair play

Wahldo	Jul 29, 08, 18:02 / #
Sasha: figures on Stalin's personality a bit tweaked, Sure, but those are interesting. Seems to suggest the less educated still gravitate towards Stalin -- maybe a little similar to the under educated in the US and the current US president. I don't have the demographics like you but I bet that this is the case.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Jul 30, 08, 08:15 / #
Sasha: Yeah. :) It's like everywhere I guess. Less educated sections of the population gravitate towards somebody who's on the same wavelength with them (speaks the way that they don't feel like taking an explanatory dictionary, feels uncomfortable with intelligentsia). Why? There is one another point of view. Stalin was an inevitable evil. Seeing in the past I could say that he was absolutely essential link between monarchy and republica in its present form. Anyway, we have no right to judge this time. You can argue about his personality, but certainly not about his aims, which was quite obvious. And it wasn't only the esteblishing Russia as most prominent state, but rather trasfering revolution all overe the globe. Do you remember the Soviet's coat of arms? It has sickle and hummer overe the globe, do you thik it is just fortuitousness?

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Jul 30, 08, 09:56 / #
ConstantineK: Ha, girls always feels some sort of affectation about how it is happen between boys....some sort of curiosity Not at all Con....I've been to enough gay clubs to have any curiousity cured for a life time....

Wahldo	Jul 30, 08, 18:20 / #
Sasha: feels uncomfortable with intelligentsia). Yes I studied your country in college (just a survey class). Much attention was paid to the serfs obviously and I was always struck by the similarities to our "hillbillies" in the South, the same weird convictions.. blind devotion to powers far away.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,558 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Jul 31, 08, 23:39 / #
Wahldo: to our "hillbillies" in the South Even though the termin "serf" has faded into nothingness, their business has been come into an estate. Guys who you call "hillbillies" in the US, we call here "bydlo" (btw, the word has polish origins)/

Wahldo	Aug 1, 08, 22:48 / #
Sasha: we call here "bydlo" I've heard it in intl comedies.. never knew what it meant. I don't speak Polish; I'm German / Slovakian descent. I like it here for all the crazy characters, insights, etc.. and of course I have Slavic blood.. and apparently face too. Sasha: though the termin "serf" has faded into nothingness Right.. but peasant mindset hasn't faded completely maybe? It's alive and kicking here I can tell you that much. Hey, you guys ever take Kasparov seriously?.. Did he have any real chance at all? Over here he was given the Playboy Interview, which is relatively prestigious and influential, very rare for a Russian to be showcased in main American media. Of course, Kasparov is a Jew.. and maybe that helped him here. I don't know.?? He seemed more Russian than Jew. The guy who did the interview challenged Kasparov a few times about his claims Putin was diminishing free press, civil liberities. It was pretty good, even exchange.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Dec 31, 08, 12:03 / #
This poll speaks to the sad reality of education behind a mass killer. In 2003 Germany banned Hitler for a similar poll. The despot, who executed and imprisoned millions of people, narrowly missed the top spot by 5,500 votes in the contest inspired by the BBC’s Greatest Britons. More than a third of the country’s 143million population voted in the Name of Russia series, which crowned medieval war hero Alexander Nevsky who stopped invading Germans. In second place came Pyotr Stolypin, the last tsar’s prime minister, who was assassinated amid a massive reform programme aimed at calming a growing Leftist rebellion in the early 20th century. And despite the purges, deportations and Siberian Gulag labour camps that killed more than 20million of his own people, Stalin managed to carry third place. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1102508/Stalin-voted -greatest-Russian-TV-poll-modelled-BBC-contest.html

HatefulBunch397Threads: - Posts: 1,018 Joined: Nov 5, 08	Edited by: HatefulBunch397 Dec 31, 08, 12:33 / #
I don't care for Stalin either. It's what happens when industrialists finance extremists and madmen, you get the Stalins and the Hitlers. Politicians that let it happen are just as bad, even though they appear moderate. Let's all hope for peace around the world and sensible politicians. Here's an interesting question to ask ourselves. Should industrialists be allowed to finance politicians, period? Maybe not. But who knows. If they were denied would industries grow resentful and start amassing? Is it a no win situation?

HWPielThreads: 1 Posts: 83 Joined: Oct 10, 08	Dec 31, 08, 12:37 / #
tornado2007: Jul 23, 08, 17:22 #9 To be honest you have to look at it from the Russian point of view and not the biased Polish view. Stalin did a lot for Russia (USSR). He did for sure do a lot more bad than he did good, however if your willing to shoot him down for the bad why not recognise the good also?? Does his good include "purging" 55 million (a very conservative number by the way) of his own people?! Current figures in academia are 65 million purged... yeah, Stalin was a "great guy". ( cricket sounds )

HatefulBunch397Threads: - Posts: 1,018 Joined: Nov 5, 08	Edited by: HatefulBunch397 Dec 31, 08, 13:10 / #
The more I think about it the more I realize how important it is to study this. We point fingers at the politicians but how do they get where they end up? It's not possible for one person to control everything and do everything without others consenting in some way. Who gives them their authority? Someone has to enable them. Stalin was the prime figure but he could not have done anything on his own. We have to take a look at ourselves. Stalin was a dictator but he wasn't just one person, he was an entire administration, he symbolized it.

tornado2007Threads: 20 Posts: 3,497 Joined: Jul 11, 07	Jan 1, 09, 17:49 / #
HatefulBunch397: Stalin was a dictator but he wasn't just one person, he was an entire administration, he symbolized it. its a good point and worth remembering, we have our very own example of a 'puppet' figure right now in Russia, i mean who's Russia is it anyway Medvedev or Putin. Lol i'll only give you one guess :) As for an example of one man being the the symbol of an administration, just take a look at George W Bush, you think he makes all those decisions on his own. The guy couldn't find his way out of his own room without a map let alone make some of the worlds most important decisions. It is those around him that manipulate and push him into making wrong decision after wrong decision. If you really want to know a bad boy who did rule his administration and did perg and rape his way to the top, look no further than Chairman Mao Tse Tung, no that is one bad cookie!!!