Who Was Really Behind the Shooting of John Paul II?

jonni:

Worth remembering that the 'Illuminati' was a short-lived republican movement popular among university teachers in 18th century Bavaria and for the past 200 years has existed only in the minds of conspiracy theorists. It's true that none of the post-war Popes have been masons. Some of his more right-wing detractors claim JPII was a member. He wasn't as far as I know, although some of his best friends certainly were.

I thought the Mehmet Ali Agca thing has been cleared up years ago. Wikipedia has a good article on the matter.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Feb 7, 09, 04:29 / #
There is much disinformation about the assasination attempt on Cardinal Wojtyla...Am Italian 'commission' blamed the Soviets...Bulgaria was accused of having involvement...But there is information linking the CIA, West German Intelligence and other organized crime elements with the so-called 'Grey Wolves', the Turkish militant/mafioso group associated with Mehmet Agca...Elements within the Vatican also had to have been directly involved...The truth of who was really behind the shooting of the Polish Pope remains an unsolved mystery...What is Polish opinion on this?...Any new insights are welcome................JoeP http://www.abovetopsecret.com/forum/thread413669/pg1 Interesting link, if text editor is working properly

dcchrisThreads: 11 Posts: 687 Joined: Oct 29, 07	Feb 7, 09, 13:17 / #
from what I have been told by the Polish they believe it was the Soviets because the Pope had written a letter requesting a visit to Moscow and this was their response to the letter as well as his statements concerning the independence of Poland from the Soviets.

EraAtlantiaThreads: 3 Posts: 128 Joined: Sep 3, 08	Feb 7, 09, 13:34 / #
It was that guy who shot J.R, JFK and ML King, cant remember his name.....

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Feb 7, 09, 21:14 / #
EraAtlantia: It was that guy who shot J.R, JFK and ML King, cant remember his name..... I beleive his name was 'The Patsy'...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 7, 09, 21:16 / #
It was believed to be a Turk. He wanted to become a citizen of Poland, how insincere. It was on TV in 2006/7 JPII forgave him, being the great man that he was, but the guy was just a nutjob.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08	Feb 9, 09, 16:10 / #
Good one, Frank. There was also an another attempt on his life. The recent film "Świadectwo" had footage of it. It was a priest who knifed JPII.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Feb 9, 09, 18:27 / #
I personally believe that to get to the truth about this, Number 1, one would have to try to understand the forces behind 'Solidanosc'...Who was Lech Walesa really?...Now, Poles would probably be better informed about this...Walesa, electrician in the Gdansk shipyard, all of a sudden becomes 'leader' of Solidarity...Did Walesa really have the support of the Polish workers in this movement, or was he 'put in' by other forces?...Certainly, Poland was sick of the Communist system...No argument...But was Walesa really who he was made out to be?...I don't know...The Soviets?...I don't believe the Soviets ever had any intention of invading Poland...It would have been a complete disaster, and would have brought down the Soviet regime even sooner...Who was boss of SU?...Yuri Andropov, sick man on kidney dialysis...Andropov denied any connection with John Paul's shooting...Andropov was KGB, yes, but I beleive KGB, and factions in it, already knew that Communism would end, and were making other plans for post-Communist 'free market' era, and had no intention/desire to mess with Poland...Was the shooting part of a larger scheme?...Agca shot him, but he was 'small potatoes', another puppet...My feeling is that CIA/'Illuminati' elements orchestrated the job...Why?...Because Poland was important to certain elements, but, contrary to what has been put forth, these forces did not trust John Paul, and feared his influence in Poland.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Feb 9, 09, 19:06 / #
joepilsudski: My feeling is that CIA/'Illuminati' elements orchestrated the job Don't you mean "Jewish CIA/Illuminati elements"? Surely you can't not blame the Jews for something?!

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08	Feb 9, 09, 20:05 / #
One thing is certain. Agca`didn't know who really hired him. He is alive. Oh, yeah, Harry, the the Jews did it for sure, you freak.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Feb 9, 09, 20:32 / #
Harry: Don't you mean "Jewish CIA/Illuminati elements"? Surely you can't not blame the Jews for something?! Jewish?...First of all, if you read my analysis of diverse historical events, I don't blame 'Jews' if you mean Jewish people...There are 'big Jews' and 'little Jews' and like all peoples, big ones use little ones...Now, again, Jewish?...Yuri Andropov ws Jewish, but I don't believe he was behind the shooting...Lech Walesa?...Maybe Jewish...Another thread on the PF states his real name, according to registrar from his home town is 'Lejbe Kokba'...But Jewish doesn't matter here...This seems more like a plan to remove John Paul because he was basically a good and religious man, and very loyal to Poland; but John Paul II was very clear in philosophy: He abhored Communism but thought that the Western 'consumer' culture was just as bad; it was worshipping Mammon...Perhaps Solidarnosc was a kind of 'trojan horse' for Illuminati elements to pave the way for a 'New Poland' not under Communism, but still under the control of the bankers/globalists; the new consumer 'free market' Poland...Communism had outlived it's usefulness to them...These 'Illuminati' hate genuine popular movements...But 'Jewish'?...Interestingly, wasn't Walesa, when Prsident, a big supporter of Hungarian Jew George Schwrtz AKA Soros, and his philosophy of 'economic shock therapy' for Poland?...I have many questions.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Edited by: jonni Feb 12, 09, 09:43 / #
Perhaps 'anti-monarchist' is a better term than 'republican' on an international forum - I was using the word in its UK rather than US meaning (very different concepts and individuals. As for Wikipedia, the English language version doesn't seem too heavily policed, given some of the aggressive disscussions and edits that happen. The Polish version is however somewhat controlled. As for shadowy secret societies, I find it hard to believe they exist - life just ain't like thAt. And if seemingly opposing groups like "CIA/Zionists/Rothschilds/Arabs" are working together rather than fighting each other, surely that's a good thing?

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Feb 12, 09, 13:35 / #
Though Joe, I think you're right that there are financial conspiracies, just that they're not so well organised or wide ranging. As for the Rothschilds, they are a business 'empire' controlled by managers, rather than a shadowy group with dark ambitions. As for the assassination attempt on JPII (who by the way openly and honestly co-operated with the US and British govenments - even the CIA and MI6 - against communism), the finger should be pointed to the USSR and its satellites.

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09	Feb 15, 09, 21:54 / #
Russians had their finger at that 100% because they were scared that having a pope Poland will be more prominent and more bold in their political moves. This is what happened later. After a while Soviet Union was no more.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Feb 15, 09, 21:57 / #
Nathan: Russians had their finger at that 100% because they were scared that having a pope Poland will be more prominent and more bold in their political moves. This is what happened later. After a while Soviet Union was no more.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Feb 9, 09, 20:38 / #
joepilsudski: John Paul because he was basically a good and religious man, and very loyal to Poland; Ha! You fail to see the truth! John Paul was actually Jewish! And a member of the Illuminati! As well as being one of the controlling Masons at the CIA! I'm surprised that somebody like you hasn't worked out the real truth.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Feb 9, 09, 20:55 / #
Harry: Ha! You fail to see the truth! John Paul was actually Jewish! And a member of the Illuminati! As well as being one of the controlling Masons at the CIA! I'm surprised that somebody like you hasn't worked out the real truth. I doubt this...I don't think any of the Popes of he last 50 years were Freemasons, with the possible exception of Pope Paul VI...The Freemasons don't need one of their own as Pope; they have key members in the Curia and Vatican itself to shape things behind the scenes...I beleive this current controversy with Pope Benedict/Ratzinger is a way to let him know who is in charge...This is the way I beleive Europe is run as a whole: EU, who are representatives of the former and current monarchies/Rothschilds, who control the money/banking...Variations of Freemasonic 'spirituality' is the religion of these people.

jonniThreads: 26 Posts: 4,181 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Feb 11, 09, 23:46 / #
Worth remembering that the 'Illuminati' was a short-lived republican movement popular among university teachers in 18th century Bavaria and for the past 200 years has existed only in the minds of conspiracy theorists. It's true that none of the post-war Popes have been masons. Some of his more right-wing detractors claim JPII was a member. He wasn't as far as I know, although some of his best friends certainly were. I thought the Mehmet Ali Agca thing has been cleared up years ago. Wikipedia has a good article on the matter.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Feb 12, 09, 06:31 / #
jonni: Worth remembering that the 'Illuminati' was a short-lived republican movement popular among university teachers in 18th century Bavaria and for the past 200 years has existed only in the minds of conspiracy theorists. It's true that none of the post-war Popes have been masons. Some of his more right-wing detractors claim JPII was a member. He wasn't as far as I know, although some of his best friends certainly were. I thought the Mehmet Ali Agca thing has been cleared up years ago. Wikipedia has a good article on the matter. Jonni, 'Illuminati' is an almost generic term used today to describe ruling elites with long continuous bloodlines, or sometime just the top 'elites'...Yes, the original Illuminati was a Bavarian society, but it was not 'republican'...And, Wikipedia is good for SOME information, but it is heavily censored and policed...I personally try not use the term too much because it is too broad, and I prefer it when names are named and faces identified...However, when you have an allinance of seemingly 'opposed' groups, like, say the CIA/Zionists/Rothschilds/Arabs working together on some issues,'Illuminati' can be a good term, since most of these groups are ruled at the top by various secret societies or factions.

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09	Feb 15, 09, 22:13 / #
I didn't know that, but it supports my point , Prince. Thanks, I'll read it.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Feb 15, 09, 22:26 / #
I don't think this was a 'holy alliance'.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Feb 15, 09, 22:27 / #
joepilsudski: I don't think this was a 'holy alliance'. Was it UFO weapon ?

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Feb 16, 09, 19:17 / #
Who Was Really Behind the Shooting of John Paul II? This might shead some light on the subject. Soviets sent Bulgarian assassin to kill Pope John Paul II during Cold War, claims priest Jan Zaryn, historian at the Polish Institute of the National Remembrance - set up to investigate war crimes committed by the Nazis and Soviets - confirmed the assassination attempt in 1987 from their files. The Italian report stated security departments in communist-controlled Bulgaria were used to prevent the Soviet Union's role from being uncovered, and said Soviet Military Intelligence was responsible. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/worldnews/article-1146559/Soviet-spies -sent-Bulgarian-assassin-kill-Pope-John-Paul-II-Cold-War-claims-priest .html