World War II: Behind Closed Doors; Stalin, The Nazis and The West.

red_devil:

Sorry, Easy Terran, but where does it say that the British were under ANY obligation to assist Poland, whether you think that happened sufficiently or not? When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990 it took the western allies FIVE MONTHS to organise a liberation force. And that was with with the most technologically-advanced nation on earth with all its transportation abilities.

History is never black and white, Easy Terran, so don't make it out to be so. The lead up to WWII and the first few weeks were a confusing and terrifying time when nobody knew how large it would get so I think, all things considered, Britain and Poland dealt with the siuation as best they could.

As for the 10million (your quote) that were killed, well that was a consequence of Hitler's aggression and not because the Allies didn't react in time. We are not asking for any gratitude - just not to be criticised as we made just as much sacrifice as any other nation.

mrcThreads: 1 Posts: 19 Joined: Apr 18, 07	Jun 11, 09, 15:07 / #
For all of you who are interested in WW2 history I would like to recommend this documentary series which covers some of the not very well known facts about those times often in relation to Poland. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqmkC6P-c7g

polamThreads: 6 Posts: 13 Joined: Jan 26, 09	Jun 17, 09, 14:58 / #
Thank you, mrc, for pointing this series out. It is a very interesting analysis of how Poland was sacrificed both during and after the war.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 18, 09, 00:01 / #
Yeah, nice account. Poland was rescued though, not to worry! ;)

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Edited by: Easy_Terran Jun 18, 09, 11:28 / #
Seanus: Poland was rescued though, not to worry Indeed, by the best system ever! Sucky that system failed. Sucky those tens of millions had to die to prove that. Edit: But the flick is awesome. Still watching it.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 18, 09, 11:35 / #
Well, the Brits were in on the 3rd of September, 2 days after Poland was attacked. Not so bad. At least there was action and not just talk as so often happens these days.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Edited by: Easy_Terran Jun 18, 09, 11:50 / #
Seanus: Well, the Brits were in on the 3rd of September Where were they? Helping stupid Polacks at Westerplatte with their naval force? Approaching the east with combined French (bwahahaha) army to meet the allies in Berlin somewhere in the 1940s? Oh no, they bombed some god-forsaken Gerry sh!t town with ... leaflet propaganda.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jun 18, 09, 11:55 / #
Well, nobody's perfect ;) ;)

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Jun 18, 09, 11:57 / #
Indeed :)

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	Jun 18, 09, 13:34 / #
Easy_Terran: Where were they? Helping stupid Polacks at Westerplatte with their naval force? You mean the stupid Polacks who had been abandoned by their own navy? I always love the way that Poles think the British navy should have done what the Polish navy refused to do. Easy_Terran: Approaching the east with combined French (bwahahaha) army to meet the allies in Berlin somewhere in the 1940s? Where exactly would you like the invasion to have been launched from? Easy_Terran: Oh no, they bombed some god-forsaken Gerry sh!t town with ... leaflet propaganda. And another of the tired old lies.

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Jun 18, 09, 14:09 / #
Harry: stupid Polacks who had been abandoned by their own navy? Indeed, Polish NAVY is and was one of the finest, with all two or three ships (sheeps) Harry: Where exactly would you like the invasion to have been launched from? Madagascar, the key strategic point of EVERY huge naval force, like Poland and ... Britain. So, Madagascar or even Britain; Churchil said himself (,(...) and Britain is a sea animal, (quoting from memory, E_T) ) Harry: And another of the tired old lies. Is it? People of Germany who survived the bombarding of that paper rain would say volumes about that. Horrible. Some Gerries has never woken up 'till these days being veggies to these days. They laughed too hard.

King SobieskiThreads: 7 Posts: 1,103 Joined: Jan 22, 07	Jun 18, 09, 14:52 / #
Mr Grunwald: Very nice series :=) which one? the nial ferguson one was fascinating, the same with his current series, "the ascent of money". i havent caught the "behind closed doors" as am usually in a bar/pub at that time on a friday. may have to torrent it.

King SobieskiThreads: 7 Posts: 1,103 Joined: Jan 22, 07	Edited by: King Sobieski Jun 19, 09, 06:07 / #
Easy_Terran: Which part did you miss or misunderstand? even though i only bought a laptop a year youtube is slow as all sh1t. and prefer to watch it on tv as opposed to computer screen.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	Edited by: Harry Jun 19, 09, 16:40 / #
IronsE11: Brave, honourable Poland was betrayed by evil, backstabbing Britain. Britain is in turn responsible for all the suffering endured by the Polish nation in the 20th Century. Churchill is in fact worse than Hitler and Stalin combined. You're missing the real cause of WWII: everybody was actually fighting over Poland. All the sides wanted God's Own Country (to use Poland's full name) and fought each other for possession of it. Three European nations had tried to share it for a couple of hundred years but they all wanted all of it: so they had to fight each other. Then the rest of the world realised what a prize Poland is and they all joined in. 1jola: How is it a lie? Go and read the RAF squadron logs and you'll find out what actually happened and not the Polish lie version. 1jola: We Poles have missed this part. We are willing to learn from you though, stateless wonderer. I couldn't teach anybody anything about how best to drop bombs. You however know all about dropping bombs on innocent civilians: you were ready to drop bombs on Poles anytime the Yanks told you to. BTW: didn't see you, or your police friends, in Tortilla Factory on wednesday night. Tonight I'll be in the office until at least nine but I might drop by Sense for a few cocktails after work. Tomorrow I'll be watching the rugby in either Bar Below or Bradley's, not sure where I'll be after that. Looking forward to seeing you.

red_devilThreads: 1 Posts: 40 Joined: Jun 12, 09	Jun 19, 09, 16:49 / #
IronsE11: Leave it out Red Devil, there's no place on this board for rational anlysis. Brave, honourable Poland was betrayed by evil, backstabbing Britain. Britain is in turn responsible for all the suffering endured by the Polish nation in the 20th Century. Churchill is in fact worse than Hitler and Stalin combined. This is PF and I wont have it any other way. You're right in some respect - YOU are incapable of rational analysis but there is plenty of room on this board for it. Your pathetic, immature views are rather embarrassing. To use such words as 'evil' in regards to Britain just shows that you are no better than Islamic Fascists who blow innocent people up because they believe they are fighting evil. Ironically, the Iranian Ayatollah called Britain evil today so you have good company, fella! Okay, next time Poland is invaded, we'll just go back to watching Eastenders. :)

King SobieskiThreads: 7 Posts: 1,103 Joined: Jan 22, 07	Edited by: King Sobieski Jun 18, 09, 14:30 / #
this series is on aussie tv now, but the inconvenient time of 8.30pm friday. dr nial ferguson also had a interesting documentary on the history of war through the ages.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,354 Joined: Dec 16, 08	Jun 18, 09, 14:45 / #
Very nice series :=)

Easy_TerranThreads: 4 Posts: 473 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Jun 18, 09, 15:31 / #
King Sobieski: as am usually in a bar/pub at that time on a friday. may have to torrent it. Which part did you miss or misunderstand? mrc: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tqmkC6P-c7g

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08	Edited by: 1jola Jun 19, 09, 15:35 / #
Harry: And another of the tired old lies. How is it a lie? Don you mean that the propaganda leaflets were explosive and inflicted great damage on Germany? We Poles have missed this part. We are willing to learn from you though, stateless wonderer.

red_devilThreads: 1 Posts: 40 Joined: Jun 12, 09	Jun 19, 09, 16:04 / #
Easy_Terran: Helping stupid Polacks at Westerplatte with their naval force? Approaching the east with combined French (bwahahaha) army to meet the allies in Berlin somewhere in the 1940s? Sorry, Easy Terran, but where does it say that the British were under ANY obligation to assist Poland, whether you think that happened sufficiently or not? When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990 it took the western allies FIVE MONTHS to organise a liberation force. And that was with with the most technologically-advanced nation on earth with all its transportation abilities. History is never black and white, Easy Terran, so don't make it out to be so. The lead up to WWII and the first few weeks were a confusing and terrifying time when nobody knew how large it would get so I think, all things considered, Britain and Poland dealt with the siuation as best they could. As for the 10million (your quote) that were killed, well that was a consequence of Hitler's aggression and not because the Allies didn't react in time. We are not asking for any gratitude - just not to be criticised as we made just as much sacrifice as any other nation.

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	Jun 19, 09, 16:14 / #
red_devil: Sorry, Easy Terran, but where does it say that the British were under ANY obligation to assist Poland, whether you think that happened sufficiently or not? When Iraq invaded Kuwait in 1990 it took the western allies FIVE MONTHS to organise a liberation force. And that was with with the most technologically-advanced nation on earth with all its transportation abilities. History is never black and white, Easy Terran, so don't make it out to be so. The lead up to WWII and the first few weeks were a confusing and terrifying time when nobody knew how large it would get so I think, all things considered, Britain and Poland dealt with the siuation as best they could. As for the 10million (your quote) that were killed, well that was a consequence of Hitler's aggression and not because the Allies didn't react in time. We are not asking for any gratitude - just not to be criticised as we made just as much sacrifice as any other nation. Leave it out Red Devil, there's no place on this board for rational anlysis. Brave, honourable Poland was betrayed by evil, backstabbing Britain. Britain is in turn responsible for all the suffering endured by the Polish nation in the 20th Century. Churchill is in fact worse than Hitler and Stalin combined. This is PF and I wont have it any other way.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	Jun 19, 09, 17:22 / #
red_devil: You're right in some respect Well, he would be if he wasn't obviously taking the ****....

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,900 Joined: May 17, 07	Jun 19, 09, 17:51 / #
red_devil: where does it say that the British were under ANY obligation to assist Poland They were under obligation because they promised to assist.

red_devilThreads: 1 Posts: 40 Joined: Jun 12, 09	Jun 19, 09, 17:54 / #
southern: They were under obligation because they promised to assist. I mean obligation to even promise to assist them. The fact that we declared war two days later gave the Germans something else to think about.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,900 Joined: May 17, 07	Jun 19, 09, 18:01 / #
red_devil: I mean obligation to even promise to assist them Yes,you didn't have obligation but you promised them.Otherwise they would aim for a compromise with Germany or an alliance with Soviet Union.

red_devilThreads: 1 Posts: 40 Joined: Jun 12, 09	Jun 19, 09, 18:14 / #
southern: Otherwise they would aim for a compromise with Germany or an alliance with Soviet Union Hahaha! You really think that would have been possible? You really ought to read your history mate. Germany would have just staged a 'Polish' attack on their radio station just as they did anyway. Please stop clutching at straws to make Britain out to be the bogey man.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Jun 19, 09, 18:56 / #
red_devil: You really think that would have been possible? What do you know!

red_devilThreads: 1 Posts: 40 Joined: Jun 12, 09	Jun 19, 09, 19:32 / #
Bratwurst Boy: What do you know! I use calculated logic. If some guy goes into two of my neighbours houses, kills the men and rapes the women and then comes to my house, it's a safe bet that he will do the same to me. Your reasoning is that Hitler and/or Stalin would have just agreed an alliance with Poland and peace would have reigned. You come across as quite a simpleton who doesn't seem to really know what he's talking about but dives into forum discussions armed with a very basic idea of the topic and just hopes for the best. Maybe you should try the 'food and drink of Poland' thread.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jun 19, 09, 19:49 / #
red_devil: I use calculated logic. It was logical for Poland to trust the british and french promises that they would come to their help if pushes came to shove. It would have been logical for Warsaw to soften their hard stance against Germany and go into negotiations or look for allies elsewhere, for example Russia without these promises! War was unavoidable but Poland could have played for time and a much better position for themselves for the coming battle between Hitler and Stalin. Actually EVERYTHING Warsaw could have tried would have been better than alone against Nazi Germany AND Russia thanks to the empty promises of Great Britain and France (the best friends of Poland as you said). red_devil: You come across as quite a simpleton Try a history book before you tell us more about "your logic"

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	Jun 19, 09, 19:53 / #
Bratwurst Boy: It would have been logical for Warsaw to soften their hard stance against Germany and go into negotiations or look for allies elsewhere, for example Russia... Was it? You wanted what was our country, our freedom, our liberties? You've been a rather evil place back then, ruled by a madman loved by his nation, a logical thing is not to give up to a regime like that since on a whim you can get carted off to a gas chamber. What we did was completely logical, its France and UK that failed to follow the logic step of defeating Germany at relatively low cost. Bratwurst Boy: for example Russia... Russia was not interested in any alliance of arms in the West, Stalin didnt want to fight for anyone since his ultimate goal was total conquest of Europe, alliance with Russia would be worth as much as alliance with UK and France (except back then it wasnt that obvious in regards to the western allies).

red_devilThreads: 1 Posts: 40 Joined: Jun 12, 09	Jun 19, 09, 19:55 / #
Bratwurst Boy: It was logical for Poland to trust the british and french promises that they would come to their help if pushes came to shove. And Britain declared war two days later on Sep 3! What did you expect? D-Day landings on the northern Polish coast on Sep 5? I think you should be looking to ask why France sat behind their Maginot Line instead of opening up a new western fron on Germany. It would have been logical for Warsaw to soften their hard stance against Germany and go into negotiations or look for allies elsewhere, for example Russia... Alliance with Russia? Russia wasn't prepared militarily for a fight with Germany in 1939 - Stalin had just completed his Great Purge on the Russian officer class so his forces were well below strength. Any alliance between Poland and Russia would have enraged Germany and precipitated an earlier eastern invasion. Furthermore, I know a hell of alot more than you seem to know about history.