LIVE FORUMS / ARCHIVES / 2009
PolishForums - ARCHIVE Witamy in PolishForums Archive :
Archives / 2009 / History of Poland / posts: 506

World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World


page 17 of 17:  « Prev  1  2  3  ...  15  16  17

BzibziohThreads: 6
Posts: 3,657
Joined: Oct 15, 08
[Suspended]
  Jul 1, 09, 06:39 /  #
Harry:
Poles, by and large, didn't fight against the Red Army that occupied their country, why do you expect the British to do what you were unwilling to?

And that supposed to be that vast knowledge of Polish history of yours??? Not very impressive, Harry. You are, of course, conveniently forgetting little detail that we were already kinda busy with the German invasion. Why do you expect us to be a heroes all the time but for Brits to promise something and not even try to deliver it’s OK in your book?

SashaThreads: 2
Posts: 1,597
Joined: Apr 19, 08
 Pictures: 1
  Jul 1, 09, 07:10 /  #
Bzibzioh:
Bzibzioh

How do you see the Polish government fled to Romania (if I'm mistaken, feel free to correct me)? This fact is largely used in Russia to justify Soviet invasion and to represent it as "liberation" (there was no invasion as there was n such a country as Poland at that time), however even official Kremlin doesn't deny the WW2-partition of Poland was kinda communistic revenge for the screw up of the earlier polish-bolshevik's war.

Bzibzioh:
Bzibzioh

Btw, is it a name or nick? I've been always interested in the origins of Polish names as they don't seem to have any analogy in other languages. Does "Zbigniew" mean anything in Polish? Or is it just a name?
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07
[Suspended]
  Jul 1, 09, 13:51 /  #
Babinich:
Harry:
Neither actually. Do pay attention to history, you might learn something from it.

I know there is no difference. I want you to commit to definition, or in other words, commit your head to the noose.

I was commenting on your use of plural nouns. Poland only ran one pre-WWII concentration camp.


Babinich:
am paying attention to history; your history as a participant of this board. To date, ad hominem attacks appear to be your specialty. ... If you're of English descent I'd get off your high horse on this one.

Do you actually know what an ad hom is or were you being deliberately ironic?


1jola:
That majority is who you should consider when writing crap here and elswhere. Why, because they don't read books and get their "knowledge" from TV, Hollywood histo-dramas, poorly written newspaper articles, and the Net.

So we must lie to people because they are too stupid to understand the truth? That is your argument? Pathetic.


1jola:
By using the term "concentration camp" for a harsh prison,

A prison is a place for convicted criminals: the people in the pre-WWII Polish concentration camp were given trials.


1jola:
and you see that is the term "detention camp or prison" used by 99.9% of historians,

99.9% use “detention camp or prison”? That would mean for every one who uses “concentration camp”, there are 999 who use “detention camp or prison”. Let’s see, Yale University professor Timothy Snyder, the US Library of Congress, the Polish Nobel prize-winning author Czesław Miłosz, Ukrainian historians Kubijovych and Idzio, Polish-British historian Tadeusz Piotrowski and British historian Norman Davies all use the phrase “concentration camp”. I make that seven. You can of course name seven times 999, i.e. 693, historians who use “detention camp or prison”, can’t you.


1jola:
you are misleading readers into believing that it was a death camp.

And now you refine your argument further. We must lie to people because they are too stupid to understand the difference between a death[/] camp and a [b]concentration camp. You really do have a low view of the common man, don’t you.


Sokrates:
Whatever definitions Bereza was a severe prison and nothing more,

As already noted: prisons are places for convicted criminals.

Bzibzioh:
You are, of course, conveniently forgetting little detail that we were already kinda busy with the German invasion. Why do you expect us to be a heroes all the time but for Brits to promise something and not even try to deliver it’s OK in your book?

OK, I’ll give you a pass for 1939. But, with the honourable exception of the groups mentioned by Sjam, there were almost no Poles who fought against the Red Army in 1944-1954. In fact there were far far more Poles fighting alongside the Red Army than against it!
As is traditional, I’ll now ask you to specify in detail the help which Britain promised but did not provide. Remember that the phrase is “all the support and assistance in its power”. Please list all the things which Britain could have done but did not.
sjamThreads: 5
Posts: 1,016
Joined: Jan 13, 09
  Jul 1, 09, 14:16 /  #
1jola:
show that most of the inmates deserved death for their "activities"

That is what the Nazis also believed for those held in their concentration camps.

And presumably the British believed the same of prisoners in "our" concentration camps in South Africa during the Boer war and again in Malaya during the communist insurgency of the late 1940's—BTW the British were also responsible for beheading many Chinese communist insurgents during the same period. Happy to discuss British concentration camps when relevant.

1jola:
you should consider when writing crap here and elswhere.

That crap Nobel prize-winning Polish author Czesław Miłosz agrees with describing the facility (Bereza Kartuska) as a concentration camp... along with other more notable people :-)

Sokrates:
Sjam is here only to drop a "bomb" they wont pick up anything uncomfortable

A troll with a bomb :-)) But I might blow myself up? If only eh ... boom:-)))
porzeczkaThreads: -
Posts: 130
Joined: Jan 14, 09
Edited by: porzeczka   Jul 1, 09, 16:19 /  #
Nathan:
Open yourself to the world, read historians from other countries.

Especially open yourself to Viktor Idzio. Ukrainian historians are always trustworthy and non- biased completely.

Ukrainian historian, Viktor Idzio, states that according to official statistics, 176 men – by unofficial Polish statistics, 324 Ukrainians[clarification needed] – were murdered or tortured to death during questioning, or died from disease, while escaping, or disappeared without trace. Most were OUN members.[5][dubious – discuss]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bereza_Kartuska_Detention_Camp

Nathan:
Yes, please, be so kind and expand on that, historian jola. Just give an example for validity of incarcerating 4,500 Ukrainians in this Polish concentration camp in 1938, not mentioning those who already died tortured before.

It's all about Ukrainians...

The Bereza Kartuska prison or detention camp was a Polish prison for mostly political prisoners that was operated in 1934–39 at Bereza Kartuska in the former Polesie Voivodeship (today in Belarus, near the city of Brest). It was intended to accommodate persons "whose activities or conduct give reason to believe that they threaten the public security, peace or order."

On 15 June 1934 Pieracki was assassinated by a Ukrainian nationalist. His death gave impetus to the creation of the Detention Camp Bereza Kartuska with the first detainees being 6 members of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists arrested on July 6-7, 1934 in connection with the murder of such prominent politician. Eventually, a total of 176 members of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists (OUN) were detained at the camp. Not a single death was reported among them in spite of draconian living conditions.[1]


(Foreign historians - here you go)

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bereza_Kartuska_Detention_Camp
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bronis%C5%82aw_Pieracki
Nathan:
Be a bit more polite towards people you don't know.

I wish you were, Nathan.
Nathan:
Look at your writings and tell me they are coming from a person who read anything besides biased Polish school forage you keep on munching all the time.

Change Polish to Ukrainian - and the whole sentence will apply to you.

Quotes from other websites should ideally contain no more than 100 words and be marked at "quote" using the "quote" function.
SashaThreads: 2
Posts: 1,597
Joined: Apr 19, 08
 Pictures: 1
  Jul 1, 09, 16:28 /  #
porzeczka:
Ukrainian historians are always trustworthy and non- biased completely.

In the last ten years I guess they beat Joan Rowling with their muck for mugs.

porzeczka:
I wish you were, Nathan.

porzeczka:
Change Polish to Ukrainian - and the whole sentence will apply to you.

100% but don't waste your time, porzeczka. There's a possibility he's not even Ukrainian.
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07
[Suspended]
  Jul 1, 09, 16:32 /  #
porzeczka:
It was intended to accommodate persons "whose activities or conduct give reason to believe that they threaten the public security, peace or order."

A description which precisely matches the official justification for the establishing of the Warsaw ghetto. That was set up because, officially, Jews threatened the safety of the rest of the population of Warsaw. Am I to assume that you consider the establishing of the Warsaw ghetto to have been perfectly acceptable?



porzeczka:
On 15 June 1934 Pieracki was assassinated by a Ukrainian nationalist. His death gave impetus to the creation of the Detention Camp Bereza Kartuska with the first detainees being 6 members of the Organization of Ukrainian Nationalists arrested on July 6-7, 1934 in connection with the murder of such prominent politician.

Kristallnacht was triggered by the assassination of German diplomat Ernst vom Rath by Herschel Grynszpan, a German-born Jew. Should I conclude that you consider Kristallnacht to have been perfectly acceptable?
porzeczkaThreads: -
Posts: 130
Joined: Jan 14, 09
  Jul 1, 09, 20:36 /  #
Harry:
A description which precisely matches the official justification for the establishing of the Warsaw ghetto. That was set up because, officially, Jews threatened the safety of the rest of the population of Warsaw. Am I to assume that you consider the establishing of the Warsaw ghetto to have been perfectly acceptable?

And how did the Jews threaten the safety? Please, write more about it. You know exactly that it was Nazi-German anti-Jewish propaganda. The real reason for establishing the ghetto in Warsaw was entirely different.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ghetto
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Warsaw_ghetto
Harry:
Kristallnacht was triggered by the assassination of German diplomat Ernst vom Rath by Herschel Grynszpan, a German-born Jew. Should I conclude that you consider Kristallnacht to have been perfectly acceptable?

Men put in the Bereza Kartuska detention camp weren't random civilians. The purpose behind establishment of such facility/institution was clear - it's meant to be a prison for terrorists and those involved in political murders and assaults, radicals; political opponents. Although, common and financial criminals were incarcerated there too. Many of those people (involved in the campaign of arson, murders, assaults, robberies, financial malversations), would end up in ordinary prisons anyway.
Anybody who insists that it was dedicated against any particular ethnicity (like Jewish Ghetto or Kristallnacht) is wrong; it was not - Poles, Jews, Ukrainians, Bielorusians, even some Germans were imprisoned there. Please find me a source postulating that Ukrainians constituted majority of incarcerated (during the whole operation time). Establishment of Bereza Kartuska prison was inspired by assassination of Pieracki by OUN - not by 'Ukrainians'. It's obvious that such detention camp, because of use of the term 'political prisoners', wouldn't be acceptable nowadays. Prison conditions were extremely harsh and I don't approve them. I don't like idea of imprisoning 'political opponents' for what they preach either, though I approve imprisoning terrorists e.g. The case of Bereza Kartuska prison isn't one-dimensional for me.
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07
[Suspended]
  Jul 1, 09, 20:47 /  #
porzeczka:
And how did the Jews threaten the safety? Please, write more about it.

Officially they spread typhus. Just as official a certain Polish concentration camp was intended to accommodate persons "whose activities or conduct give reason to believe that they threaten the public security, peace or order."


porzeczka:
Anybody who insists that it was dedicated against any particular ethnicity (like Jewish Ghetto or Kristallnacht) is wrong; it was not - Poles, Jews, Ukrainians, Bielorusians, even some Germans were imprisoned there.

Anybody who insists that the holocaust was dedicated against any particular ethnicity is also wrong. What's your point?


porzeczka:
Prison conditions were extremely harsh and I don't approve them.

That's jolly decent of you.


porzeczka:
Many of those people (involved in the campaign of arson, murders, assaults, robberies, financial malversations), would end up in ordinary prisons anyway.

So why not give them the trials they supposedly so richly deserved and then lock them up as criminals? If you had done so, we would be talking about BK as a prison. Instead it is classed as a concentration camp.
southernThreads: 116
Posts: 10,949
Joined: May 17, 07
  Jul 1, 09, 21:00 /  #
Harry:
Officially they spread typhus

And unofficially they spread syphilis?
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07
[Suspended]
  Jul 1, 09, 21:02 /  #
southern:
And unofficially they spread syphilis?

In reality they spread neither any more so than the rest of the population did.
NathanThreads: 33
Posts: 1,846
Joined: Feb 13, 09
Edited by: Nathan   Jul 1, 09, 23:50 /  #
porzeczka:
porzeczka

I got some Polish historian for you, even in your native language:

"Historycy PRL dowodzili, że większość, 80-90 procent więźniów przetrzymywanych w Berezie stanowili komuniści i socjaliści różnych narodowości. Z początkiem 1938 roku osadzono w Berezie Kartuskiej na politycznej detencji ponad 4,5 tysiąca Ukraińskich nacjonalistów, co wskazuje, że obóz rozbudowywano. Od wiosny 1939 roku zaczęto osadzać w obozie również kobiety. We wrześniu 1939 roku w obozie przebywało 7 tysięcy internowanych na rządowej detencji: 4,5 tysiąca Ukraińców i 2 tysiące Niemców, w tym wszystkim 360 kobiet"
Historians of Polish Republic stated that majority - 80-90% of the prisoners contained in Bereza Kartuska were communists and socialists of different enthnicities. Starting with 1938 over 4.5 thousand Ukrainian nationalists were detained there on political grounds, which means that the camp was enlarged. In spring 1939 women began to be emprisoned there as well. In September of 1939 - 7 thousand people were there based on government detention orders: 4.5 thousand Ukrainians, 2 thousand Germans and 360 women.

"Zresztą w izbie tej bito więźniów stale bez jakiegokolwiek powodu oraz masakrowano ich do krwi".

The prisoners were beaten there constantly without any reason whatsoever including bloody butcherings.

"Tę czynność fizjologiczną można było załatwić tylko raz na dobę, rano po obudzeniu
Konieczność trzymania moczu i kału powodowała awarie za które okrutnie bito, a i taki ubrudzony moczem czy kałem śmierdział wszystkim, nie mógł się wyprać".

Going to the toilet was permitted only once a day, right after wake-up. (For that you were given only a couple of seconds amid other 20 prisoners standing in line; most of them weren't able to do it). Eventual inability to hold back urine and fesces led to forced defacation for what prisoners were severely beaten. Neither of them had later cloths to change or wash and were stinking by it all.

http://www.eioba.pl/a86034/bereza_kartuska_polski_sanacyjny_oboz_konce ntracyjny

porzeczka:
whose activities or conduct give reason to believe

I can only imagine what would have happened to me if I lived in Poland at that time and was noticed to be writing these lines on PF. My activities would have definately given reason to believe....
sjamThreads: 5
Posts: 1,016
Joined: Jan 13, 09
Edited by: sjam   Jul 2, 09, 08:33 /  #
From same link:

"... The inspiration for the creation of a detention center in Poland for political prisoners was a visit to Poland by Hermann Göring in 1934, who had instigated such a detention center at Dachau.

... Undoubtedly, the originator (of Bereza Kartuska) was Polish Prime Minister, prof. Leon Kozlowski, who was influenced by the increasing popularity of the German and Italian fascist movements, and especially the views of J. Goebbels, who wrote about the educational role of the concentration camps in Germany."
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08
  Jul 2, 09, 10:13 /  #
sjam:
That crap Nobel prize-winning Polish author Czesław Miłosz agrees with describing the facility (Bereza Kartuska) as a concentration camp...

I have as much respect for this communist writer as I have for Nobel prize-winning communist poet Wisława Szymborska. Lovely poem praising the Party and Stalin. Mind you, the use of concentration camp for BK was used by the communists till recently.

The OUN members jailed there went on later to organize a genocide of Poles in Wołynia, and swelled the ranks of Wafen SS. Their attrocities surpassed in many ways the brutality of Nazis and the Soviets.

Once again:

The Bereza Kartuska prison or detention camp (Polish: Miejsce Odosobnienia w Berezie Kartuskiej, "Place of Isolation at Bereza Kartuska") was a Polish prison for mostly political prisoners that was operated in 1934–39 at Bereza Kartuska in the former Polesie Voivodeship (today in Belarus, near the city of Brest).

Take it up with wiki.
sjamThreads: 5
Posts: 1,016
Joined: Jan 13, 09
Edited by: sjam   Jul 2, 09, 12:00 /  #
1jola:
I have as much respect for this communist writer

Czesław Miłosz A communist writer eh?

...After World War II, Miłosz served as cultural attaché of the communist People's Republic of Poland in Paris. In 1951 he defected and obtained political asylum in France. In 1953 he received the Prix Littéraire Européen (European Literary Prize).
In 1960 Miłosz emigrated to the United States, and in 1970 he became a U.S. citizen. In 1961 he began a professorship in Polish literature in the Department of Slavic Languages and Literatures at the University of California, Berkeley. In 1978 he received the Neustadt International Prize for Literature. He retired that same year, but continued teaching at Berkeley.

... Through the Cold War, Miłosz's name was often invoked in the United States, particularly by conservative commentators such as William F. Buckley, Jr., usually in the context of Miłosz's 1953 book The Captive Mind. During that period, his name was largely passed over in silence in government-censored media and publications in Poland.

After his defection Milosz's works were banned in Poland. He continued to write in Polish, but published many works in English. He was given a hero's welcome, when he returned to his native land shortly before he was honored with the Nobel Prize.

In Poland Milozs' moral stand made him a voice of conscience during the Cold War period.

During World War II Milosz was active as a writer in the Resistance movement and witnessed the Holocaust first-hand. His collection of verse, OCALENIA (1945), impressed so the new Communist government that he was appointed junior diplomat as a non-party intellectual.

A communist writer whose books were banned in Poland... surely not... I'd stop waving that red flag ... it'll clash with your face colour :-)))

1jola:
the use of concentration camp for BK was used by the communists till recently.

and once again:

sjam:
"... A number of modern non-Soviet sources have also characterized the facility as a concentration camp, including Yale University professor Timothy Snyder, the Library of Congress, and the Polish Nobel prize-winning author Czesław Miłosz."

"... Polish-British historian Tadeusz Piotrowski who also calls it a concentration camp notes that the establishment of the facility was a norm of its times, similar to camps established by Americans for Japanese during WWII, by Canadians for Ukrainians during WWI, and – as also noted by Norman Davies – on a much smaller scale than those projects (not to mention the giant German or Soviet networks of concentration camps)."

Take it up with wiki :-))
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07
[Suspended]
  Jul 2, 09, 13:36 /  #
sjam:
A communist writer whose books were banned in Poland... surely not... I'd stop waving that red flag ... it'll clash with your face colour :-)))

I do wish you'd stop confronting our favourite traitor with facts. You know he's far more comfortable with lies. I'm still waiting for him to name 693 historians who use “detention camp or prison”!
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08
Edited by: 1jola   Jul 2, 09, 14:12 /  #
sjam:
Czesław Miłosz A communist writer eh?

Unlike you, I have read Miłosz and his explanaitions about his communist past. Just because he left the party later doesn't sbsolve him and he doesn't ask for it.

You can read "The Captive Mind" 1953 on the subject.

Take it up with wiki :-))

I'm sure you're gigling like child. I don't have to take anything up with wiki on this point because they correctly identify this camp as an internment camp.
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07
[Suspended]
  Jul 2, 09, 15:03 /  #
1jola:
Just because he left the party later doesn't sbsolve him

But just because you were ready to drop bombs on Poland anytime your American paymasters told you to does make you a traitor.


1jola:
I don't have to take anything up with wiki on this point because they correctly identify this camp as an internment camp.

An un-named, unpaid, unknown contributor to wikipedia calls BK an internment camp (according to you anyway: the page itself is titled "Bereza Kartuska prison", apparently even you know that calling it a prison won't fly). Well-known, big-name, well-paid professional historians such as Yale University professor Timothy Snyder, the Polish Nobel prize-winning author Czesław Miłosz, Ukrainian historians Kubijovych and Idzio, Polish-British historian Tadeusz Piotrowski and British historian Norman Davies call it a concentration camp. Who should be belive?!

Still waiting for you to name those 693 historians who who use “detention camp or prison”. Or shall we accept your silence as confirmation that you know you've been caught lying yet again?
sjamThreads: 5
Posts: 1,016
Joined: Jan 13, 09
Edited by: sjam   Jul 2, 09, 15:05 /  #
I wonder if Polish-American servicemen like 1jola really would have bombed Poland during the Cold War if ordered to by their commander-in-chief or would they have refused the order?

Guess my late father would have faced the same possibility whilst serving in the British Army, although he might have considered all Poles in Poland commies and hit the button, so to speak.
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08
  Jul 2, 09, 15:19 /  #
sjam:
Guess my late father would have faced the same possibility whilst serving in the British Army, although he might have considered all Poles in Poland commies and hit the button, so to speak.

According to Harry, your father was a traitor. How do you feel about that?
sjamThreads: 5
Posts: 1,016
Joined: Jan 13, 09
Edited by: sjam   Jul 2, 09, 15:22 /  #
Harry:
Who should be belive?!

A Noble Prize idiot :-)) Now who could that be?


1jola:
According to Harry, your father was a traitor. How do you feel about that?

According to Harry that would be so and I understand why Harry would think so. But I don't personally think of my father as a traitor; although to the Warsaw government in 1945 he was, as were all those in the Polish Second Corps.

You said that you were a Polish-American serviceman therefore would you have bombed Poland during the Cold War if ordered to by your commander-in-chief or would you have refused the order for fear of killing any of your family in Poland?
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08
Edited by: 1jola   Jul 2, 09, 15:46 /  #
sjam:
According to Harry that would be so and I understand why Harry would think so. But I don't personally think of my father as a traitor;

Explain it to your dimwit friend then.


therefore would you have bombed Poland

I doubt I want to talk to you about what I did in the service.
sjamThreads: 5
Posts: 1,016
Joined: Jan 13, 09
Edited by: sjam   Jul 2, 09, 16:14 /  #
1jola:
I doubt I want to talk to you about what I did in the service.

No doubt, but I am not asking what you did in the service but what would you have done given:

As a Polish-American servicemen would you have bombed Poland during the Cold War if ordered to by the President and thus potentially kill members of your own family?

At times during the cold war this was a very real possibilty so you must have thought about it? No?

Maybe there are other former Polish-American servicemen on this forum who might have been faced with the same order... so lets open it out.
1jolaThreads: 33
Posts: 2,737
Joined: Sep 23, 08
Edited by: 1jola   Jul 2, 09, 16:35 /  #
This type of question was discussed within American forces as there were many soldiers facing such dilemma. That's why we have security clearances so we don't yak about it publicly, and especially with people like Harry.

Interesting discussion, but this is not the place.

Harry thinks that he can insult me over and over, and I will not react. Stupidity of some people amazes.


chose to fight for a foreign power.

Sjams father chose to fight for a foreign power also. In your twisted mind that makes him a traitor.
sjamThreads: 5
Posts: 1,016
Joined: Jan 13, 09
Edited by: Moderator   Jul 2, 09, 16:55 /  #
1jola:
That's why we have security clearances so we don't yak about it publicly,

I think you are using this joke excuse to evade answering rather than anything else; the Cold War ended more than twenty years ago; and I am asking for your personal opinion about an issue which you must have thought about before enlisting or during service in the Cold War?

Do you think the Polish forces of the Warsaw Pact would have opened fire on Polish-Americans if they were identifiable?

1jola:
Sjams father chose to fight for a foreign power also.

I can confirm that he did and he did it well :-)) Having been decorated for killing communist insurgents in Kuwait, Yemen and Oman... oh... and Malaya ;-))

At the time my father was considered a traitor to Poland by the communist Warsaw government in 1945 for having sworn allegiance to the Polish-government-in-exile that was based in London. That was the position of the Warsaw government with Gen. Anders also.




Some posts have been removed from this thread, because they have included personal attacks on other members. A reminder to keep on topic and no insults to other members please.
HarryThreads: 62
Posts: 8,508
Joined: May 2, 07
[Suspended]
Edited by: Harry   Jul 2, 09, 19:55 /  #
Back on topic, 1jola please provide the names of the 693 historians who who use “detention camp or prison”. You claim that 99.9% of historians use that phrase. I have named seven who use the phrase "concentration camp", you should have no problem naming your 99.9% of historians.

If you would like to name the 693 historians in person, I've mentioned before where I'll be this Saturday. Do feel free to drop by.

page 17 of 17:  « Prev  1  2  3  ...  15  16  17Go UPtop of page


Similar discussions:

Similar to: World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World
Pigskin comes to Poland
TV signals in Poland
Snowboarding in Poland
I want to leave Poland
What if scenario´s for WW2 and Poland
12 more days in poland what to do
What To Do In Gliwice Poland
Celebrities in Poland
Something to take to Poland from UK to sell...
The name Grabian from poland

Poland - Russia Russians ready for discussion about history ?  Ross kemp on Polish Gangs/Nazis - Untermenschen Nazis..??

Random: Work permit regarding change of workplace
Archives / 2009 / History of Poland /posts: 506


This forum is archived (read-only).
This thread is closed. You may not post a reply.
Category:
© 2005-2010 PolishForums.com | PolishForums LIVE | Archives | Random | Statistics