World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World

Wroclaw Boy:

I personally feel extremely sorry for the Poles for everything they endured during WWII. However we the Brits stood up and fought an Evil which was unparalleled in recent history only to be despised later on. Was this a direct result of the big three's negotiations "Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin". Or just common hate of a nation which some deemed superior? Poland in my opinion was left at the mercy of the Russian empire as the other two powers did not really have a choice short of extended war! Hind sight is a wonderful thing, I wonder.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Nov 16, 07, 19:48 / #
What a beautiful poster do u mind if I copy it luk

FirestormThreads: 7 Posts: 511 Joined: Nov 29, 06	Nov 16, 07, 19:57 / #
0oo, That would make a great Tattoo.. But without the Wording. :)

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Nov 16, 07, 20:31 / #
Quoting: celinski What a beautiful poster do u mind if I copy it luk I've copied it as well, so your welcome ;)

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Nov 17, 07, 11:09 / #
Why Thank you

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,755 Joined: Jul 3, 08	May 12, 09, 16:10 / #
i had no idea where to post this pictures but didnt want to make seperate thread so let it be here. polish group reenacting germans in stalingrad, in abandoned factory somewhere in Poland. nice job from these guys:

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Edited by: Ironside May 12, 09, 16:17 / #
are you serious ? Then you have something in common with BB- helmet!

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,755 Joined: Jul 3, 08	May 12, 09, 16:28 / #
Ironside: are you serious ? serious about what?

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09	Edited by: Nathan May 12, 09, 16:30 / #
Wroclaw Boy: Russia20,000,000-30,000,000 or 20% of its population. How can you say Russia here and say not Europe but France, Germany, Italy? My country - Ukraine - lost 2.5 million soldiers and 4.5 million civilians which was over USA, Britain, France and Italy total military losses together put. I am not mentioning other countries like Bielorus', Lithuania, Latvia, Georgia etc...

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	Edited by: isthatu2 May 12, 09, 16:31 / #
lol,I love the fact every second guy thinks he is senior corporal Steiner circa 1977 Ironside: are you serious ? Its called re enactment irons,its not political mate,without those guys dressing up as the Hun the boys and girls who re enact the AK and WP of 39 would have no one to shoot at. Nathan: How can you say Russia here Because Im sure he means countries of the Soviet Union. Dont get your sharovari in a twist mate,its commen in the west to say "russia" when meaning the historical USSR?CCCP.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 12, 09, 17:23 / #
Poles reenacting Germans! Whoa!!! :):):) ...but they look good I must admit....

chinczykThreads: - Posts: 41 Joined: Oct 23, 08	Edited by: chinczyk May 13, 09, 13:50 / #
McCoy: polish group reenacting germans in stalingrad may be they were polish descendents living in germany and falsely believed hitler's propaganda,may be they were forced to fight along with nazis.this happened all over the world,every country unfortunately had betrayers,like in nips' imperial army there were taiwanese too,also nazis would think of those german descendants serving in the U.S.army as betrayers ,however, betrayers were trivially few after all,they could not be on behalf of the mainstream will of a country.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	May 13, 09, 14:36 / #
Wroclaw Boy: Could you please list some of the assistance that you have liked to recieve from the UK at that time. Anything that would have made a difference short of a nuclear bomb which of course was not available. Like attacking the harbors with your massive fleet? Supporting our naval base at Hel with your massive fleet? Attacking the German merchant navy with your massive fleet? Landing your forces in Danzig and other coastal locations? I'm not even touching the subject of France, UK was guilty of negligence but what the frogs did was downright betreyal. Wroclaw Boy: 4th Largest army!!!! you fell in the 1st quickest time. We did? We fought longer than France against forces 50% larger than France, while i have no illusion of the outcome of war even with Germany alone it would last 3-5 months instead of 30+ days, Polish army while 10 years backwards was by no means weak.

Wroclaw Boy	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy May 13, 09, 14:39 / #
Sokrates: Like attacking the harbors with your massive fleet? Supporting our naval base at Hel with your massive fleet? Attacking the German merchant navy with your massive fleet? Landing your forces in Danzig and other coastal locations? would you have done that for us? Come on wed have been sitting ducks for the Luftwaffe and the award for whinging Pole of the day goes to? get over it man.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	May 13, 09, 14:59 / #
Wroclaw Boy: would you have done that for us? Come on wed have been sitting ducks for the Luftwaffe Luftwaffe was in Poland, had to be in Poland and its not like you did not have aircraft carriers to protect your fleet, the point of this is if you're going to let your ally get fvcked dont enter the alliance in the first place. Wroclaw Boy: and the award for whinging Pole of the day goes to? I'm not whining, you've asked what could you do and i told you what you could do, there's three countries that are to blame for WW2, Germany for starting it and France and UK for allowing it to happen, 1939 was a point where you could bend Germany over like a red headed stepchild, there would be no 7 years of food crisis in UK, no battle of britain, no occupation of France.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 12, 09, 17:44 / #
Wroclaw Boy: I personally feel extremely sorry for the Poles for everything they endured during WWII. However we the Brits stood up and fought an Evil which was unparalleled in recent history only to be despised later on. Was this a direct result of the big three's negotiations "Churchill, Roosevelt and Stalin". Or just common hate of a nation which some deemed superior? Poland in my opinion was left at the mercy of the Russian empire as the other two powers did not really have a choice short of extended war! Hind sight is a wonderful thing, I wonder. Thank you for your sentiment! Do you undenstand Polish ? For You: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iI6MXZmR29A

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	May 13, 09, 15:23 / #
Sokrates: Like attacking the harbors with your massive fleet? The first mission against a German harbour was launched within 90 minutes of war being declared. Like the other missions of 1939 it was an abject failure because British forces were not prepared for war. Sokrates: Supporting our naval base at Hel with your massive fleet? Why should the British support a base which the majority of the Polish navy had decided to abandon in August: i.e. before the war even started your navy was running away from Hel? Your own navy recognized that operating in the Baltic in September 1939 was suicide, why do you expect the British to commit suicide for Poland? Polish forces wouldn’t do that. Sokrates: Attacking the German merchant navy with your massive fleet? Britain did impose a blockage on Germany. And the massive fleet was rather busy dealing with U-boat attacks on British merchant vessels and passenger liners. Sokrates: Landing your forces in Danzig and other coastal locations? How would you like them to have got there? Sokrates: Luftwaffe was in Poland, had to be in Poland and its not like you did not have aircraft carriers to protect your fleet Aircraft carriers in 1939 were useless against U-boats. HMS Courageous was sunk by a U-boat on 17 September 1939 with the lost of 518 crew. On 14 September 14 HMS Ark Royal only avoided being sunk because three torpedoes from U-39 exploded prematurely. Sokrates: the point of this is if you're going to let your ally get fvcked dont enter the alliance in the first place. The point is that Britain did all it could. The problem is that that wasn’t much. Sokrates: there's three countries that are to blame for WW2, Germany for starting it and France and UK for allowing it to happen, 1939 was a point where you could bend Germany over like a red headed stepchild, Not a word about the way that Poland treated the Germans unfortunate enough to live in interbellum Poland? As always with Poles talking about 1939, you give no facts about what Britain could have done but didn’t. Instead you repeat the tired old lie about ‘western betrayal’ and refuse to admit even a jot of fault. Sokrates: there would be no 7 years of food crisis in UK, no battle of britain, no occupation of France. There would have been none of those if Britain had simply accepted Hitler’s repeated offers of peace.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Edited by: Ironside May 13, 09, 18:42 / #
Harry: As always with Poles talking about 1939, you give no facts about what Britain could have done but didn’t. Instead you repeat the tired old lie about ‘western betrayal’ and refuse to admit even a jot of fault. Sure , it was a Polish Government fault, they should know that France and Britain will not attack Germany during first week as they promised on paper! Believing in honor and keeping promises and might of two world superpowers, Government should know better and should know that France and Britain as a superpowers were passé. Rule - one promise one should deliver (in on paper - more) and concept of honor have no use in the politic. There is only interests. That's why I blame Polish Government! Harry: Not a word about the way that Poland treated the Germans unfortunate enough to live in interbellum Poland? What it has to do with anything ? What about Aborigines in interbellum Australia ? What about Arabs in interbellum French Morocco? What about Irish and Indians in interbellum British Empire ? IF you claim that Hitler invaded Poland because of Germans living in Poland then you lie! Harry: There would have been none of those if Britain had simply accepted Hitler’s repeated offers of peace. Peas brother ! So, Britain should accepted, not scratching paper with empty guarantees. Wroclaw Boy: Well said Harry. No, it is not well said! I can understand some Poles being pissed off by the all thing, as they still have to live with consequences of the WWII, very real for them even now. I can understand British fed up with that subject, for them irrelevant and long forgotten past. Never the less I don't understand claims made by some that Britain was doing Poland favor or fought to save Poland, or if not for Poland Britain somehow would not have been involved in the war. That's nonsense and ******** !!!! Britain was making it's own decisions based on their own interest and goal's ! It was not help, no charity and definitely British government hadn't has Poland's interest at heart! That is not a blame( I hope everybody understood that).

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Edited by: Seanus May 13, 09, 18:44 / #
I agree with Harry and WB, Chamberlain was hellbent on bringing about peace. His great notion of it was captured in words but I forgot what they were. Churchill had to do too little, too late. He was fighting a losing battle against time but he did remarkably well in putting the necessary preparations into place. Tragic story? Well, of course!!

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 13, 09, 18:47 / #
Seanus: I agree with Harry and WB, Chamberlain was hellbent on bringing about peace. His great notion of it was captured in words but I forgot what they were. Churchill had to do too little, too late. He was fighting a losing battle against time but he did remarkably well in putting the necessary preparations into place. What about me?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	May 13, 09, 18:51 / #
I agree with your answer to WB, yes. Britain has a strong sense of national interest and no more so was this true than under Churchill (Thatcher too). They were NOT doing Poland a favour at all. In fact. Churchill didn't like the then Polish PM. I forgot his name. It begins with M. It's when the war was kicking off, Britain knew it and they weren't thinking about Poland.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 13, 09, 19:33 / #
Seanus: In fact. Churchill didn't like the then Polish PM. I forgot his name. It begins with M. Polish PM before a war was Składkowski, with Mościcki as President! Only other polish PM during the war with M - Mikołajczyk!? Which one?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	May 13, 09, 21:36 / #
Mikołajczyk, that's it. Churchill called the Poles selfish and focussed on their narrow-minded pursuits. He was no fan of the nation. You could see the way that he sat proudly with Roosevelt and Stalin. He was another fan of British glory, not saving Poland.

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	May 13, 09, 21:46 / #
chinczyk: McCoy: polish group reenacting germans in stalingrad may be they were polish descendents living in germany Or maybe they are just REENACTORS!!! Cripes,whats so hard about this concept for people to understand? When Gene Hackman dressed up as a certain Polish general that didnt mean he was descended from Polish paras does it? The clues in the name re enACTING......:) Sokrates: Like attacking the harbors with your massive fleet? What,through all the mines and straight past the MASSIVE german airforce bases all along the north german coast? Sokrates: Supporting our naval base at Hel with your massive fleet? Why should we have left our country open to invasion simply by throwing away our fleet in a suicide mission to the Baltic? If fighting the german navy and airforce was so simple why did YOUR fleet scarper out of the Baltic before the war started?? Sokrates: Landing your forces in Danzig and other coastal locations? Why,Danzig was a GERMAN city. Why throw away British lives in a futile invasion of a city that most people knew fine well had been German until 20 years before? Just shows how clueless you are when you say things like "invade a harbour"....great grasp of strategies and tactics havnt you...........lets hope you never end up in charge of any soldiers ,theyd be dead before you finished breakfast... Lets face it,when will Poland take responsibility for playing a huge part in causing ww2 to start with its usuall pompous attitude when it came to Danzig? Why not just give the Germans the road and rail route access between west and east prussia?

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon May 13, 09, 21:51 / #
isthatu2: Lets face it,when will Poland take responsibility for playing a huge part in causing ww2 to start LOL ... what a ignorant guy ... by existence of Polish nation :)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 13, 09, 21:53 / #
isthatu2: Lets face it,when will Poland take responsibility for playing a huge part in causing ww2 to start with its usuall pompous attitude when it came to Danzig?... Another generation or two? Salomon: LOL ... what a ignorant guy ... by existence of Polish nation :) What do you know of the disputes between Germany and Poland before the invasion? PS: It wasn't only between Poland and Hitler, but also before between Poland and the Weimar Republic...actually since 1919!

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	May 13, 09, 21:54 / #
Salomon: LOL ... God,you got the irony...must admit ,that last was chucked in more in the spirit of Devils advocate :) (still,one does wonder,would it have played for time enough for Poland to fully modernise its forces,would hitler have taken the northern route into the USSR,and ,if so,would Poland have become another Finland,allied to germany only for conveniance in the fight against Stalin?.....)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Edited by: Seanus May 13, 09, 21:56 / #
Isthatu2, I agree with you on most things but I don't know what you meant by Poland taking responsibility for WWII. I guess you were joking ;) If you mean appeasement by signing the non-aggression pact, then Britain is equally guilty as Chamberlain didn't read the warning signs either. Aha, to my knowledge, Danzig was never German before the Germans forcibly seized it. Then again, I didn't study this aspect of history much so I'm willing to be educated.

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	May 13, 09, 21:56 / #
Salomon: isthatu2: Lets face it,when will Poland take responsibility for playing a huge part in causing ww2 to start LOL ... what a ignorant guy ... by existence of Polish nation :) Aha,speaks with forked tongue and takes a line out of context,you know fine well I said with regards Danzig and the stolen german lands.....ah well,some people cant "win" through honest debate can they...got to twist and spin....

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	May 13, 09, 22:11 / #
Like a true politician ;)