World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World

Famous people born in the city

# Johannes Dantiscus, 1485, poet, church canon and bishop
# Bernhard von Reesen, 1490
# Albrecht Giese, 1524
# Johannes Hevelius, 1611, astronomer
# Georg Daniel Schultz, 1615
# Andreas Schlüter, 1660
# Jacob Theodor Klein, 1685
# Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit, 1686–1736, physicist and engineer
# Daniel Gralath, 1708, physicist and Bürgermeister (mayor)
# Louise Adelgunde Gottsched, 1713, writer
# Daniel Chodowiecki, 1726, painter
# Johann Wilhelm Archenholz, 1741
# Avraham Danzig, 1748, rabbi
# Georg Forster, 1754
# Gottlieb Hufeland. 1760
# Johanna Schopenhauer, 1766
# Johannes Daniel Falk, 1768
# Arthur Schopenhauer, 1788
# Miltiades Caridis 1923
# Günter Grass, b. 1927, wr

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 13, 09, 22:47 / #
Seanus: Aha, to my knowledge, Danzig was never German before the Germans forcibly seized it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gdansk Famous people born in the city # Johannes Dantiscus, 1485, poet, church canon and bishop # Bernhard von Reesen, 1490 # Albrecht Giese, 1524 # Johannes Hevelius, 1611, astronomer # Georg Daniel Schultz, 1615 # Andreas Schlüter, 1660 # Jacob Theodor Klein, 1685 # Daniel Gabriel Fahrenheit, 1686–1736, physicist and engineer # Daniel Gralath, 1708, physicist and Bürgermeister (mayor) # Louise Adelgunde Gottsched, 1713, writer # Daniel Chodowiecki, 1726, painter # Johann Wilhelm Archenholz, 1741 # Avraham Danzig, 1748, rabbi # Georg Forster, 1754 # Gottlieb Hufeland. 1760 # Johanna Schopenhauer, 1766 # Johannes Daniel Falk, 1768 # Arthur Schopenhauer, 1788 # Miltiades Caridis 1923 # Günter Grass, b. 1927, wr Does this list look polish to you Seanus?

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	Edited by: isthatu2 May 13, 09, 22:51 / #
Bratwurst Boy: # Günter Grass, b. 1927, wr Die blechten wottsit,great film...sorry BB but I was chearing the Polish guys in the Post office when I saw this.....I could lie and say read this but I didnt get past the whole hiding under skirts scene when I last picked it up :) Wasnt Danzig one of the old Teutonic strongholds? Im sure I read somewhere of british knights heading there as part of a papal approved crusade in the 12th C....

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	May 13, 09, 22:55 / #
Well, you are probably right BB. My fiancee even agrees with you and she's a Polish patriot.

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon May 13, 09, 23:00 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Does this list look polish to you Seanus? Well ... do you know history of Gdańsk. Citizens of Gdańsk ordered their coat of arms made form stone. It has been made form with few changes... Lions were looking on south (not on each other) for help from weaker and weaker Poland (they feared stronger and stronger Prussia). Gdańsk citizens ethusiasticly greated this new version of their Coat of Arms. It was before partitions. http://pl.shvoong.com/books/505528-lwy-gdańskie/

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 13, 09, 23:07 / #
isthatu2: Die blechten wottsit,great film You mean "Die Blechtrommel"? :) I wonder how many scientists and artists of world renown got the Serbs out of Kosovo to make such a ********* out of it compared to a true loss like Danzig... Or how many famous Poles came out of Lwow to build their claims to that town for that matter!

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	May 13, 09, 23:16 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Or how many famous Poles came out of Lwow to build their claims to that town for that matter! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Poles_by_Germany Generalplan Ost (GPO) was a Nazi plan to ethnically cleanse the territories occupied by Germany in Eastern Europe during World War II. According to research of professor Łuczak, Germans expelled the following numbers of Poles from territories annexed to the Reich in the period of 1939-1944: It is estimated that between 1.6 and 2 million people [9] were expelled from their homes during the German occupation of Poland. Only the German organized expulsions affected directly 1,710,000 Poles.[8] Additionally, 2.5 to 3 million Poles were taken from Poland as labourers to Germany to support the Nazi war effort.[5] These numbers do not include people arrested by the Germans and sent to Nazi concentration camps Planed localizations of Expulsions Polish citizens from anexed areas of Poland after 1939

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 13, 09, 23:20 / #
Some Jews planned the "Morgenthau" plan for after war Germany...it stayed that, a plan! And Poles throwing the expulsion argument around is just a joke, isn't it? As long as Germans ruled Poland Poles and Germans lived side by side (if not always peacefully). Only after the Poles took control whole big territories and whole towns are now "deutsch rein"...so please don't make me laugh! Oh and I'm still waiting for your famous people list...

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	May 13, 09, 23:23 / #
Dons liberal hippy hat Wouldnt it be better to spare a moment to consider the famous ,gifted people who the world never got the chance to know thanks to the horrors and losses of the war for all nations?

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon May 13, 09, 23:24 / #
Well Bratwurst, your country wanted everything and played poker. Germany wanted to expel/exterminate/enslave whole Poland ... and lost in this poker... stake was big.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 13, 09, 23:26 / #
Salomon: Well Bratwurst, you country wanted everything and played poker I can only give back that compliment...had Poland negotiated with Germany before there wouldn't had been a Hitler (maybe), nor a war...or if then maybe not such devastation... But Poles were nationalistic and chauvinistic with the best of them at that time...believing they could reach Berlin in a week (it's a quote!), feeling totally safe behind british and french promises...so why talking and maybe giving something? (That was what Isathu pointed at actually) In the end both lost out! Better move on...

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	May 13, 09, 23:32 / #
Great,can I go back to cricket and warm beer now? leaves me free to go suppres a few pesky colonials :)

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	May 13, 09, 23:43 / #
Ok,I'll leave the colonials alone Joins fraternal hug. "oi,hands off my arse,its not true what all you continentals think about englishmen,well,the ones that didnt go to eton anyway."

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon May 13, 09, 23:50 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Oh come on Solo...don't spoil the mood...all border issues in Europe are closed, also your eastern border, we all move on! Of coure issue of eastern border is closed but friendly neighbourhood should be made on truth not silence.

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	May 13, 09, 23:58 / #
Cant we all just join in and sing a verse or two of Lili marlene? Come on,i'll get the ball rolling Underneath the lamp light by the barrack gate... come on BB unter dem summat summat ich der kasserne wotsit Soly Pod jasnosummatski w fortski brama anyone?

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	May 13, 09, 23:27 / #
Bratwurst Boy: In the end both lost out! Better move on... Agree!

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 13, 09, 23:29 / #
Really? A beer to that! :)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 13, 09, 23:37 / #
group hug

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Edited by: Seanus May 13, 09, 23:41 / #
Didn't they do that when signing the non-aggression pact? ;) ;) Also, a bit like Tudjman and Milosevic when they signed that Agreement beginning with K, the name eludes me.

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon May 13, 09, 23:45 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Oh and I'm still waiting for your famous people list... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Poles Bratwurst Boy: Really? A beer to that! :) Yes ... issues of borders with Germany are closed :)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 13, 09, 23:47 / #
Salomon: Yes ... issues of borders are with Germany are closed :) Oh come on Solo...don't spoil the mood...all border issues in Europe are closed, also your eastern border, we all move on!

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 14, 09, 00:03 / #
isthatu2: Lets face it,when will Poland take responsibility for playing a huge part in causing ww2 to start with its usuall pompous attitude when it came to Danzig? Why not just give the Germans the road and rail route access between west and east prussia? WWII - if not Poland it would be France, Belgium or Greece or maybe Soviets were war would have been started! Before Austria then Czechoslovakia all were nice to Mr Hitler - look what they get in return . Maybe Britain should give to Germany some of their colonies ? for a good measure - why not? http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yv4LaLDG5xE Battenbergs and all that ....

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 14, 09, 00:21 / #
Why do you forget what destroyed any chance the Weimar Republic might had and what made people vote for Hitler? WWII started already with the Treaty of Versailles, from then on it was only a matter of time till someone would ride on it to the top. A big part of the reason why so many European diplomats and politicians stayed quite for so long was a nagging feeling of guilt that Hitler was not so far off, that the Treaty had been unfair and that the Germans only got back what was stolen from them....they couldn't misinterpret the happy masses lining the streets throwing flowers wherever the Wehrmacht drived through...be it the Rhineland, Austria or the Sudeten! Then Hitler was about to correct the last crime with getting Danzig back, freeing the german minority from the polish yoke (or so he said)...but now - oh wonder - he had set his aims much higher...to f*ucking bad...who could have thought it!

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	May 14, 09, 00:24 / #
Bratwurst Boy: hen Hitler was about to correct the last crime Why after anexing part of Czech republic he had broken agreement and had taken whole Czech rep ? Your verison doesn't stick to reality.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 14, 09, 00:26 / #
Salomon: Why after anexing part of Czech republic he had broken agreement and had taken whole Czech rep ? Your verison doesn't stick to reality. Because there hadn't been a Czechoslovakia before, but only a Böhmen and Mähren. Because at that point Hitler didn't care anymore for the rights of the Germans, to make "things right again" as he had preached all this years. Frankly he gave a sht and he would have given Danzig for an agreement with the Poles otherwise as we now know. He was already in his "conquering dictator" mood...most just didn't know yet and still believed in him fully! But then...there was nobody else who did something they could vote for....*

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	May 14, 09, 00:28 / #
Ironside: Ironside Dont worry,this was cleared up on the last page :) Sorry,I was mostly playing Devils Advocate/provocauter of debate.....hindsight of history shows this would probably have been a futile gesture anyway . It was however a very common view held in France and Britain at this time(39),by Polititions and lay people alike, why shouldnt the germans get back some of the lands lost at versaille,a large percentage of the population were "german" anyway. This feeling changed though,not with the invasion,or even the declarations of war 2 days later. Both our nations,France and Britain had suffered horrendous casualties in WW1 and no one was keen to go to war for a distant,almost alien land.No,feelings changed with the newsreel footage of the nazi bombing of Warsaw,and generaly,from that time on people had an idea of just what they were fighting.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 14, 09, 00:34 / #
isthatu2: All right! Bratwurst Boy: He was already in his "conquering dictator" mood...most just didn't know yet and still believed in him fully! Don't worry BB something to cheer you up: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qpMPUgaEEXQ

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 14, 09, 00:37 / #
Ironside: Don't worry BB something to cheer you up: Hmmm.... Dieses Video ist in deinem Land nicht verfügbar. Something dirty and perverse I hope? :)

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	May 14, 09, 00:41 / #
Nope,a bunch of poor sods ,stubblehoppers, on der OstFront. With Good Comrade being sung in the background. Sort of like the opening titles of Cross of Iron...without Senta Berger getting her bum out :(

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 14, 09, 00:50 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Dieses Video ist in deinem Land nicht verfügbar. Sorry BB! What about that?: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hznHR2pV6i8

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	May 14, 09, 00:56 / #
I cant believe these pages are blocked in germany BB. Sure theres a few silly messages in some of the comments pages "3 weeks ago. Happy B'Day mein Fuhrer...." but mostly its just compilation videos made by men with too much time on there hands of footage of various fronts with old marching songs in the background. This is history,maybe with a touch of propaganda but,why deny it,it happened. Like I said,just watch cross of iron,atleast youve got a good film after the music....... "you go,with that,foul smelling one." " I keep dirty after stalingrad,dirt and body oils combine to keep you vaterproof..."