World War II - a tragic story for Poland and the World

Prussia's Germanisation policies in the Province of Posen mostly failed. Although most of the administrative measures aimed against the Poles remained in force until 1918, between 1912 and 1914 only four Polish-owned estates were expropriated, while at the same time Polish social organizations successfully competed with German trade organizations and even started to buy land from the Germans. The long-lasting effect of the Polish-German conflict in the area was development of a sense of Greater Polish identity, distinct from the identity common in other parts of Poland and primarily associated with nationalist ideas rather than socialism, prevailing in other parts of the country in the 20th century.

It is estimated that between 1.6 and 2 million people [9] were expelled from their homes during the German occupation of Poland. Only the German organized expulsions affected directly 1,710,000 Poles.[8] Additionally, 2.5 to 3 million Poles were taken from Poland as labourers to Germany to support the Nazi war effort.[5] These numbers do not include people arrested by the Germans and sent to Nazi concentration camps.[9]

In many instances, Poles were given between 15 minutes and 1 hour to collect their personal belongings (usually no more than 15 kilograms per person) before they were removed their homes and transported east (see: deportations) On top of that about 5 million[citation needed] Poles were sent to German concentration camps.[citation needed] A total of about 6 million Polish citizens were killed during the war.[citation needed] All these actions resulted in significant changes in Polish demographics at the end of the war.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,778 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 16, 09, 02:22 / #
Wroclaw Boy: OK just sort Sokrates out and well get along just fine.... What I can do?

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08	May 19, 09, 15:57 / #
I see somebody get's to the Danzig/Gdansk topic again, it's allways been German but never truely Germany's! That's what I think of the matter, allways full of Germans but allways pro-Poland or free Danzig/Gdansk.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 19, 09, 16:04 / #
Mr Grunwald: That's what I think of the matter, allways full of Germans but allways pro-Poland or free Danzig/Gdansk. ??? http://www.zum.de/whkmla/region/eceurope/danzig19191939.html on March 23rd, 70,000 Danzigers protested the Treaty of Versailles provision concerning the cession of an access to the Baltic (Danzig) to Poland In the Nov. 16th 1930 elections to the Danzig Diet, the NSDAP increased her seats from 1 to 12 The May 1933 elections returned the NSDAP as the strongest party in the Volkstag. It became clear almost at once that the overwhelming German majority population of the Free State resented the concessions which had been made to Poland and their dismemberment from Germany. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Free_City_of_Danzig Mr Grunwald: it's allways been German but never truely Germany's! What should that mean???

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	May 19, 09, 16:27 / #
Bratwurst Boy: What should that mean??? It means that Grunwald couldnt find his ass without a map, Gdańsk was originally slavic, then Polish untill it was lost to teutonic knights in 14 century and even then it had a significant Polish majority. Its only under the Prussian Kingdom that it becomes massively germanized.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08	May 19, 09, 16:38 / #
Sokrates: It means that Grunwald couldnt find his ass without a map, Gdańsk was originally slavic, then Polish untill it was lost to teutonic knights in 14 century and even then it had a significant Polish majority. Its only under the Prussian Kingdom that it becomes massively germanized. Bratwurst Boy: What should that mean??? I thought of 1300-1900 mostly, after that it's all uncertain

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 19, 09, 16:41 / #
Sokrates: Its only under the Prussian Kingdom that it becomes massively germanized. It's your answer to everything..."germanized"...isn't it? Deny the german history of these lands all you want...800 years! I just find it funny when I read the Ukraine thread...Poland from Moskau to France, eh??? LOL

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08	May 19, 09, 16:47 / #
Bratwurst Boy: It's your answer to everything..."germanized"...isn't it? Deny the german history of these lands all you want...800 years! I just find it funny when I read the Ukraine thread...Poland from Moskau to France, eh??? LOL I don't deny! Just think Germany shouldn't be doing anything there, tho many Poles don't want massive immigration of Germans back there, resulting in another 1939

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 19, 09, 16:48 / #
What IS Germany doing here? What are you talking about? There aren't any Germans there anymore...it's a dump like Königsberg is! You can keep it!

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,778 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 19, 09, 16:53 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Deny the german history of these lands all you want...800 years! Whats lands and whatdya mean 800?

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	May 19, 09, 17:00 / #
I don't see Polish - Ukrainian case similar to Polish German one... read previous posts... What is more 1 mln Germans left Poland in 1970's long after the war ... life in west Germany was better ... so economic situation in communist Poland regermanized them.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 19, 09, 17:10 / #
It isn't that part what is funny but rather the excessive usage of some Poles of the word "germanized". I think you don't even know what that means...alone the image: "Hey...I don't like it here anymore I'm leaving...voila now I'm germanized!" What do you think is needed for a proper "germanizing"? A passport? 3 words in german??? A whole town changes hands and snaps fingers get's "germanized" whatever that means??? LOL (It's nearly as funny as when Crow says Germans are germanized Slavs - still not saying who were these mysterious original "germanizers") I think you really have no idea about this long, and voluntarily process!

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 19, 09, 17:43 / #
Sokrates: "Bringing in Germans into a region that previously was dominated by another ethnicity, in this case Poles with the express intention of making Germans a majority in the region, german colonization aka Germanization." Were the Poles expelled? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_Gdansk Ca. 1235 the settlement had some 2,000 inhabitants and was granted Lübeck city rights by Swantopolk II. Merchants from the Hanseatic cities of Lübeck and Bremen began to settle in greater numbers. Officially chartered as a city in 1224 as Dantzike, it rose to become one of the more important trading and fishing ports along the Baltic Sea coast. The city and surrounding areas had already been heavily Germanized[citation needed] due to the invitation made to German settlers by the Slavic rulers[citation needed], and due to the increase in trade with German and Dutch port How cruel of them! Prussia was actively repressing all things Polish, Did they expell the Poles??? Sokrates: Gdańsk in 1939 was a result of long term agressive efforts to kill, evict or forcefully assimilate what was once a Polish majority That's crap Sokrates. Without the Treaty of Versailles and taking Danzig out of Germany there wouldn't had been a war and also there hadn't been a polish majority for centuries. When we go after that then Germany has every right to reclaim Danzig as we lost our majority only 60 years back... PS: You don't "germanize" trough a violent colonization Sokrates. Taking on german customs, attitudes, culture is a long and voluntarily process (for every "...zation")! I knew you people don't know what that means..

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon May 19, 09, 17:51 / #
Sokrates: It was conquered territory which you held by force of arms and claims to ethnic majority which you yourself installed in a prolonged brutal process, pretty much the same as Wroclaw or Poznan. Germans never been in majority in Poznań ... What is more after 1918 ... there was no expulsions ... in revange for Germanisation ... after Hitler everyting changed, poker is poker, Germans wanted everything and lost a lot... still I don't understand why their allies got so much. Bratwurst Boy: (It's nearly as funny as when Crow says Germans are germanized Slavs - still not saying who were these mysterious original "germanizers") Well eastern Germans when we talk about the origin have some slavic blood the same as they have more Nordic blood than southern Germans... Bratwurst Boy: Did they expell the Poles??? Yes http://germanhistorydocs.ghi-dc.org/sub_document.cfm?document_id=1840 Bismarck’s Kulturkampf (“cultural struggle”) against the Catholic Church included – and at times appeared driven by – a determined effort to undermine Polish nationalism in Prussia’s eastern provinces. The immediate context for this long speech was a brutal operation in March and July 1885 whereby 48,000 Poles and Polish Jews were deported from these provinces.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 19, 09, 17:54 / #
Ja...and many Poles have german blood also..so what! So...who did the mysterious "germanizing" of the Germans? :):):) Salomon: Bismarck’s Kulturkampf (“cultural struggle”) against the Catholic Church included I think that's the crux of the matter. Problem was Poles were and seem to be still catholic talibans... Bismarck was right to try to break the catholics neck as he wanted to modernize Prussia!

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 19, 09, 17:02 / #
Salomon: so economic situation in communist Poland regermanized them. ! Can I keep that quote and show it around for good laughs? :)

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon May 19, 09, 17:09 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Can I keep that and show it around for good laughs? Poles needed space after being expeled form east... Germans invaded Poland and have done what they have done, with for example their Ukrainian allies... The fact is that people loyal for Poland (with German origin) weren't expeled. Many left Poland long after the war (1970's) when many Poles were dreaming about drop of foreign blood to get pass and emigrate on west. It is well known fact.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	May 19, 09, 17:35 / #
Bratwurst Boy: "germanized". Bringing in Germans into a region that previously was dominated by another ethnicity, in this case Poles with the express intention of making Germans a majority in the region, german colonization aka Germanization. To be specific Gdańsk became German as a part of the two phase process, first the Teutonic Knights butchered the Polish population and then a colonizing effort was made and still more than half of the inhabitants were Polish, by the period of the Prussian kingdom further germanizing efforts were made by making life difficult for Poles administratively. Bratwurst Boy: I think you really have no idea about this long, and voluntarily process! BB i genuinely like you and i'm opposed to some more radical views about Germans but sometimes you're trying to twist history so it fits your view. Prussia was actively repressing all things Polish, you could get far in Prussia IF you assimilated, as a Pole you had no future, this is not voluntary, neither was the massacre of the original population in the 14 century by the Teutons. Gdańsk in 1939 was a result of long term agressive efforts to kill, evict or forcefully assimilate what was once a Polish majority so i'm rather suprised when i hear that Gdańsk was a natively German city. It was conquered territory which you held by force of arms and claims to ethnic majority which you yourself installed in a prolonged brutal process, pretty much the same as Wroclaw or Poznan.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	May 19, 09, 18:03 / #
Bratwurst Boy: How cruel of them! Yeah wikipedia, anyone can edit it:) I'm aware of german settlement but they forget the issue that these very Germans a generation or two later spoke Polish, felt Polish (which is incidentally the source of our conflict over Kopernik who ethnically was German but nationally Polish as hell). The real deal starts with the kingdom of Prussia which forcefully germanized the Polish majority but even if we go by your line of thought Gdańsk is still originally Polish as german peasants have been given land but not political power to secede which brings us back to Tuetonic massacres of Poles and the forcefull Germanization in Prussia, both of these done through violence on a natively Polish soil. Bratwurst Boy: That's crap Sokrates. Without the Treaty of Versailles and taking Danzig out of Germany there wouldn't had been a war and also there hadn't been a polish majority for centuries. Thats probably the biggest bollocks you have ever written on these boards, Gdańsk was just an excuse and you know it, you Germans needed to boost your pride after having your asses kicked in WW1 and later by Poles in Silesian uprisings, you needed that war, you loved Hitler because he gave you your "pride" back, want me to upload youtube of extatic women and orgasmic crowds when Hitler passed? War would happen one way or the other, an excuse would be invented by Germans or if they couldnt invent one they'd invade without it, in regards to Gdańsk i see nothing wrong in returning to Poland what was its native land. Bratwurst Boy: When we go after that then Germany has every right to reclaim Danzig as we lost our majority only 60 years back... You did not lose it, it would have to be yours in the first place, you claimed it when Poland was too weak to boot the elector from the region and kept it by virtue of force of arms, same with Poznań and Wrocław, only we lost them later. Bratwurst Boy: PS: You don't "germanize" trough a violent colonization Sokrates. Germanization was a long process, both violent and not, it was as far as Prussia is concerned a stick and carrot way, Poles who assimilated would become full members of German society, those who were evil and prejudiced enough to want to keep their national identity faced violent repressions. Many Poles did yield because if you can lose your job for speaking Polish and have kids to feed you will bend, its not as easy as Germans standing with a loaded gun, there was blackmail, coercion, for the most stubborn Poles there were violent repressions but claiming that Germanization of natively Polish regions was a happy process with willing Poles learning to speak German is a blatant lie.

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon May 19, 09, 18:08 / #
Bratwurst Boy: So...who did the mysterious "germanizing" of the Germans? :):):) Lets leave it for Crow. Bratwurst Boy: Bismarck was right to try to break the catholics neck as he wanted to modernize Prussia! Well result wasn't good as long as many Polish Protestants became Catholic - national ties were stronger than religous.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	Edited by: Sokrates May 19, 09, 18:11 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Bismarck was right to try to break the catholics neck as he wanted to modernize Prussia! Bismarck wanted to break the Polish necks, it had nothing to do with modernizing Prussia and everything with breaking Poles, the little Hitler called Poland "the sick man of Europe" wonder if he'd call Germany that after 1945. Bratwurst Boy: Ja...and many Poles have german blood also..so what! Far more Germans have Polish blood, and many border towns and cities are slowly becoming Polish! http://polishpress.wordpress.com/2008/02/16/poles-find-their-lebensrau m-in-the-west-drang-nach-abandoned-east-germany-is-the-new-trend/ Drang nacht Berlin :))

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 19, 09, 18:13 / #
Sokrates: these very Germans a generation or two later spoke Polish, felt Polish (which is incidentally the source of our conflict over Kopernik who ethnically was German but nationally Polish as hell). They were "polonized" you mean? Sokrates: (which is incidentally the source of our conflict over Kopernik who ethnically was German but nationally Polish as hell) Didn't hinder him to work for Prussia till he died! :) Sokrates: The real deal starts with the kingdom of Prussia which forcefully germanized the Polish majority You mean "re-germanized" polonized ex-Germans??? :) Sokrates: Thats probably the biggest bollocks you have ever written on these boards, Gdańsk was just an excuse and you know it You can read alot of history books Sokrates and many historians will tell you the same as I do. The treaty of Versailles is seen as paving the way for the success of Adolf Hitler and taking Danzig out of Germany was part of this treaty.... Sokrates: you loved Hitler because he gave you your "pride" back, want me to upload youtube of extatic women and orgasmic crowds when Hitler passed? I'm not sure about the orgasms but people loved Hitler because he promised them to get back on the same people who forced Germany to this treaty and boy did we had our revenge (at first at least). Sokrates: War would happen one way or the other, an excuse would be invented by Germans or if they couldnt invent one they'd invade without it, in regards to Gdańsk i see nothing wrong in returning to Poland what was its native land. How could there had been war with Poland still partitioned? Sokrates: You did not lose it, it would have to be yours in the first place, you claimed it when Poland was too weak to boot the elector from the region and kept it by virtue of force of arms, same with Poznań and Wrocław, Well...if you don't accept an ethnic majority of 95 percent then Germans don't have to accept the actual polish majority either, don't they? Sokrates: Many Poles did yield because if you can lose your job for speaking Polish and have kids to feed you will bend, its not as easy as Germans standing with a loaded gun, there was blackmail, coercion, for the most stubborn Poles there were violent repressions but claiming that Germanization of natively Polish regions was a happy process with willing Poles learning to speak German is a blatant lie. See? You contradict yourself here... You don't assimilate because of some hardships! No blackmail or coercion can make you to think like a German or to feel like a German. Either you overvalue the power of the german culture or you totally dismiss the power of polish culture. Please think about what that means...

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon May 19, 09, 18:22 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Either you overvalue the power of the german culture or you totally dismiss the power of polish culture. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kulturkampf Prussia's Germanisation policies in the Province of Posen mostly failed. Although most of the administrative measures aimed against the Poles remained in force until 1918, between 1912 and 1914 only four Polish-owned estates were expropriated, while at the same time Polish social organizations successfully competed with German trade organizations and even started to buy land from the Germans. The long-lasting effect of the Polish-German conflict in the area was development of a sense of Greater Polish identity, distinct from the identity common in other parts of Poland and primarily associated with nationalist ideas rather than socialism, prevailing in other parts of the country in the 20th century. ... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Expulsion_of_Poles_by_Germany It is estimated that between 1.6 and 2 million people [9] were expelled from their homes during the German occupation of Poland. Only the German organized expulsions affected directly 1,710,000 Poles.[8] Additionally, 2.5 to 3 million Poles were taken from Poland as labourers to Germany to support the Nazi war effort.[5] These numbers do not include people arrested by the Germans and sent to Nazi concentration camps.[9] In many instances, Poles were given between 15 minutes and 1 hour to collect their personal belongings (usually no more than 15 kilograms per person) before they were removed their homes and transported east (see: deportations) On top of that about 5 million[citation needed] Poles were sent to German concentration camps.[citation needed] A total of about 6 million Polish citizens were killed during the war.[citation needed] All these actions resulted in significant changes in Polish demographics at the end of the war. Germans after the war recived what they asked for. Poker is poker and in my opinion thay paide little price for what they have done. If I were responisble ... I'd made holocaust for them as long as I am not very religous person.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 19, 09, 18:22 / #
Sokrates: Far more Germans have Polish blood, Well...you can call them Poles with german blood too! :):):) Sokrates: Drang nacht Berlin :)) And why is that a good thing compared to "Drang nach Westen? You know Sokrates? With such little hints you give yourself away. Don't whine about what the Germans did or not did, you do happily the same if you can! You are not better...:) Salomon: Poker is poker and in my opinion thay paide little price for what they have done. And who has asked you Luk? Still fighting the war? Who cares...

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon May 19, 09, 18:27 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Still fighting the war? Who cares... It seems that you care, about result of this debate :) and I am telling you that after WWII it wouldn't be wrong to have border on Elbe river... If I were Stalin I would make so :-) After 60 years ... we would say, Move on!

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 19, 09, 18:30 / #
We know Luki...but you aren't and you haven't, live with it...accept the realities! :) We don't even have borders anymore...if I would want to I could re-settle in Breslau without a thing hindering me. All this griping, ******** and grudge bearing is so pointless... And yeah...move on!

SalomonThreads: 6 Posts: 602 Joined: Apr 7, 09	Edited by: Salomon May 19, 09, 18:39 / #
Well buing house in Wrocław is something much different than expulsion of Poles form there. Bratwurst Boy: And yeah...move on! Yeah but it is importnat to draw conclusions.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 19, 09, 19:03 / #
yeah...as if it would be the Poles in Breslau fearing expellation...sure..

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	May 19, 09, 21:49 / #
Had to walk a dog, btw ignore Solomon please, we'll have him euthanized shortly. Bratwurst Boy: They were "polonized" you mean? Yessir, i'd wager there's more than a quarter of a milion people who dont even remember they used to be German, while our countries dont roll well together they assimilate each others people very smoothly (pissing on Irons argument that white old Europe is full of different cultures). Bratwurst Boy: Didn't hinder him to work for Prussia till he died! :) There was no Prussia back then, Kopernik to be specific had a Polish father and a German mother, his works were influenced by a Polish professor while he was studying in Kraków, Toruń at the time was a multinational city falling within Polish influence and Kopernik is a clear example of it, the guy was related to most major Polish nobility and German merchant/nobles in the region (through his mother). He never worked for Prussia, the region at the time had much more in common with Poland since Poland was a unified state and the heanzeatic cities were not. Bratwurst Boy: You mean "re-germanized" polonized ex-Germans??? :) No i mean germanizing ethnic Poles, Poznań and Wrocław had Polish majorities when they entered kingdom of Prussia, these turned into minorities since many Poles either moved or were Germanized but they were forced to do it under economic and administrative pressure, it was not a willing process. Bratwurst Boy: You can read alot of history books Sokrates and many historians will tell you the same as I do. The treaty of Versailles is seen as paving the way for the success of Adolf Hitler and taking Danzig out of Germany was part of this treaty.... Yes yes there's also historians who claim world is several thousands years old and created by God bible style. The facts are, Germany wanted its own slice of power in Europe, power that was already taken by France UK and Russia, there was no other way than war. Bismarcks pet state bred people to dominate, fight and win, Germans were completely unable to cope with failiure, you wanted to wage war against France and Russia (in the end UK would probably get it too) as a means of revenge, Poland was never a reason, neither for the first nor the second war, not its existence, not Danzig. Hitler is a direct descendant of militaristic society, unable to cope with defeat you needed another go, another war, the treaty of Versailles was just a symbol, even if you were allowed to keep Poland the result would be the same, not to mention that Poland did free itself so you should have directed your anger against Poland, instead you will notice France and Russia earmarked as enemies early on. Dont blaim WW2 on Poland because it was not even close to a reason, you lost WW1, your economy got squashed by reparations, and more importantly you lost your misplaced pride, the utter failure of Germany to form a healthy flexible society was the only reason Hitler got all the way to the top. Bratwurst Boy: How could there had been war with Poland still partitioned? Poland was not the premiere reason for WW2, even if it would not recover its lands Germany would still assault Russia and France, the only thing different would be that there would be no invasion of Poland. Bratwurst Boy: Well...if you don't accept an ethnic majority of 95 percent then Germans don't have to accept the actual polish majority either, don't they? I dont accept the ways it was achieved and incidentally history has this tendency to right itself given time, Germany made such great attempts to grab and hold these lands and after nearly four centuries we're still here, this too is the legacy of Bismarcks failiure. The guy failed to recognize that nations, countries are living creatures that evolve and interact in accordance with certain potentials, you cannot arbitraly take land or impose policies because you will lose. Bratwurst Boy: No blackmail or coercion can make you to think like a German or to feel like a German. Yet another of Bismarcks failiures, people who were pushed resisted but not all, you can forcefully integrate someone, he will not feel like a German but surrounded by indoctrination he will succumb. That Polish culture survived on these areas is testament to how dynamic we are even under pressure. Bratwurst Boy: Either you overvalue the power of the german culture or you totally dismiss the power of polish culture. Please think about what that means... Neither, while as political and national entities we will always be rivals our cultures intertwine, assimilation of some in mixed regions is inevitable.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 19, 09, 22:02 / #
Sokrates: Germany made such great attempts to grab and hold these lands and after nearly four centuries we're still here, this too is the legacy of Bismarcks failiure. Well...it was the slavs who wandered westwards into german lands, why are you forgetting this every time? You and your people have a very selective memory! And I really don't want to discuss Bismarck with you Sokrates...you have your opinion and I have mine... Sokrates: That Polish culture survived on these areas is testament to how dynamic we are even under pressure. Or this "pressure" is in big parts a cooked up myth to build polish nationalism! Ever thought about that? Our cultures and people lived for millennia now side by side and I don't buy that "big bad german monster" what is always out to eat polish babies if I'm honest! It was Poles who ended this with erasing german history (something which the other way around never happened under "germany tyranny") and even now want to have even more of Germany...don't give me any more **** Sokrates!

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,778 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 19, 09, 22:14 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Our cultures and people lived for millennia now side by side and I don't buy that "big bad german monster" what is always out to eat polish babies if I'm honest! Not German - Prussian The greatest mistake of Kingdom of Poland was to help to create Prussian state!