Failures in Poland`s politics on Ukraine, Russia and Balkan

Crow:

no. i am sad to notice that Poland destroying Ukraine. Same way as Poland failed to support surviovor of Catholic Serbs as Serbs, Poland failes to support survivor of Ukraine nation as Orthodox and Catrholic in the same time. You made same mistake as Russians and as result Ukrainian people would suffer.

i concluded that Polish and Russian inteligentsias aren`t mature enough, not enough serious.

Sokrates:
and advocating its presence in EU and NATO
that would kill Ukraine, innitiate Civil War in Ukraine, weakening Polish eastern positions, reduce number of Slavs, reduce Polish diplomatic and defansive manuverable space when Germany (so called west) increase pressure on Poland, move Poland in hostility with Russia,...

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	May 12, 09, 19:06 / #1
i think that it is time that people of Polishforums.com conclude that politics of official Poland failed in several points, with at least (let`s say) interesting geo-strategic partners and regions. But, what could be crucial resons for failures in Polish politics on Ukraine, Russia and Balkan? Let me try to give few explanations: 1. Poland unconditionaly follow foreign policy of France, Germany, USA, Britain and Turkey and, 2. Poland don`t have its own foreign policy based on interests of Polish people as a reasult, in a distant future, we can extect that some representatives of `Polish` inteligentsia suggest- that it is far better for Poles to mix with Arabs then to have anything in common with other Slavs.

SokratesThreads: 10 Posts: 3,632 Joined: Jan 19, 09 Gender: Male [Suspended]	May 12, 09, 20:30 / #2
So what would be your version of international policy that'd benefit our people? An alliance with mighty Serbian empire that people cant find on a map or bending over so our enlightened eastern neighbour could fvck us for another 170 years?

BorrkaThreads: 41 Posts: 644 Joined: Apr 25, 08 Gender: Male	May 12, 09, 20:35 / #3
Crow: Poland unconditionaly follow foreign policy of France, Germany, USA, Britain and Turkey Crow, you simple don't know rudiments of Polish politics. For that reason it looks for you like following foreign policy of Western powers, for me it's Gedroyc's "vision" pure. And Giedroyc's works may have been right or wrong but for sure they were Polish to the bone. And good relations with Ukrainians, Belorussians and Lithuanians make the essential part of his views. http://www.ce-review.org/00/32/kosc32.html

HarryThreads: 26 Posts: 4,543 Joined: May 2, 07 Gender: Male	May 12, 09, 20:39 / #4
Crow: it is far better for Poles to mix with Arabs then to have anything in common with other Slavs. Remind me: how many European nations have arabs invaded in the last 50 years? Now tell me how many European nations slavs other than Poles have invaded in the last 20 years. Most probably it is better for Poles to mix with the people who don't launch mortar attacks on crowded markets and don't commit genocide (or spend the next couple of decades after committing genocide whining about how the real genocide was carried out against them).

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Crow May 12, 09, 21:10 / #5
well, you probably knows better then me. I`m just irrelevant Serb Sokrates: people cant find on a map if Poland helped us a little, it would be much easiest to found Serbia on the map and territories that hold Serbs would be territory friendly for Poles, practicaly Polish territory. now, we understand. Its obvious. Everything what is Polish is Eurabic in the same time. Please, forgive to your irrelevant Serb for we would found each others one day in EU, i mean in the same sh**.

SokratesThreads: 10 Posts: 3,632 Joined: Jan 19, 09 Gender: Male [Suspended]	May 12, 09, 21:22 / #6
Crow: if Poland helped us a little, it would be much easiest to found Serbia on the map and territories that hold Serbs would be territory friendly for Poles, practicaly Polish territory. I'm sympatetic towards the Kosovo situation and i did not like it being taken away from you but i still fail to see what are you trying to say? We're supporting Ukraine and advocating its presence in EU and NATO, we keep good relations with Hungary, Romania etc so what more are we supposed to do?

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Crow May 12, 09, 22:04 / #7
This is first time in history that Poland underestimate significance of Serbians in Eastern, South-Eastern and Central Europe, to say in Slavic world. Sokrates: I'm sympatetic towards the Kosovo situation you should be, for several reasons.... because of our mutual heritage and tradition, because borders of one Slavic country had been violated, because Islam spread, because loyal Polish sisters and brothers suffer- Serbians, because it is obious that EU work against Slavs, because NATO leads Poland in coolaboration with mujaheedines,... Sokrates: and i did not like it being taken away from you don`t worry. Before this night mare finishes Poland would react on behalf of Serbians. i am sure. Polish soldiers on Kosovo already aren`t happy to be used against Serbs, on behalf of Albanian mujas Sokrates: We're supporting Ukraine no. i am sad to notice that Poland destroying Ukraine. Same way as Poland failed to support surviovor of Catholic Serbs as Serbs, Poland failes to support survivor of Ukraine nation as Orthodox and Catrholic in the same time. You made same mistake as Russians and as result Ukrainian people would suffer. i concluded that Polish and Russian inteligentsias aren`t mature enough, not enough serious. Sokrates: and advocating its presence in EU and NATO that would kill Ukraine, innitiate Civil War in Ukraine, weakening Polish eastern positions, reduce number of Slavs, reduce Polish diplomatic and defansive manuverable space when Germany (so called west) increase pressure on Poland, move Poland in hostility with Russia,... Sokrates: we keep good relations with Hungary, Hungary is very hostile on Serbia and Slovakia Sokrates: Romania etc etc,... non slavic factors in the region? Sokrates: so what more are we supposed to do? behave as Poles and stop to work against yourself because same sh** that happening to Serbs coming to get you

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Crow May 12, 09, 22:39 / #8
Sokrates: the Kosovo situation forget for the moment moral failure of Poland regarding Serbian situation. Forget for the moment emotinal dilemmas inside of any true Pole when he realize what realy (behind wall of anti-Serbian propaganda) happening to and arround Balkan (Serbians). Simple, analize incompetence of Polish diplomacy and confusion of Polish officials. Serious representtaives of Polish elite and inteligentsia are aware of it... Kosovo and the Polish Diplomatic Embarrassment by Agnieszka Skieterska, 2008-02-26, ostatnia aktualizacja 2008-02-26 17:17 http://wyborcza.pl/1,76842,4965759.html Agnieszka Skieterska The Dutch, whose compatriot, Pieter Feith, has for a couple of weeks now been in charge of the EU's mission in Kosovo and will oversee the creation of the new state, have almost managed to reconcile fire with water. It is such gestures that show whether a diplomacy has class. Poland's obviously doesn't. translated by Marcin Wawrzyńczak Źródło: Gazeta Wyborcza on Polish... Kosowo i polska żenada dyplomatyczna http://wyborcza.pl/1,76842,4963528.html Jako dziesiąty kraj Unii Europejskiej uznamy dziś niepodległe Kosowo. Ale miejsce w tym rankingu nie ma żadnego znaczenia. Od wielu miesięcy było jasne, że któregoś dnia zdominowana przez Albańczyków prowincja oderwie się od Serbii. Jednak gdy stało się to w końcu 17 lutego, w Warszawie zapanował zamęt. Rząd za niepodległością Kosowa, a prezydent przeciw. Holendrom, których rodak Pieter Feith od kilku tygodni czuwa nad całą misją Unii Europejskiej w Kosowie i będzie nadzorował powstawanie nowego kraju, niemal udało się pogodzić ogień z wodą. Po takich gestach poznaje się klasę dyplomacji. Szkoda, że nie naszej.

SeanusThreads: 19 Posts: 22,785 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	May 12, 09, 23:03 / #9
Crow, Polish press fared little better than the British press. You need good souls to paint the bigger picture. My tour guide was like that, she encouraged the Poles on the coach to like the Serbs and realise that they weren't the violent aggressors that their media depicted them as. You need to paint a balanced picture closer to the truth, otherwise you run the risk of jeopardising potentially fruitful relations unnecessarily. The press played a large part in souring the relations. You need to awaken some Poles as some lumber along without opening their eyes. The same everywhere :(

SokratesThreads: 10 Posts: 3,632 Joined: Jan 19, 09 Gender: Male [Suspended]	May 12, 09, 23:23 / #10
Crow: Hungary is very hostile on Serbia and Slovakia I speak for the massive majority of the Poles right now, myself included, we'd let Serbia and Slovakia go to hell before we'd say a word against Hungary.

isthatu2Threads: 2 Posts: 940 Joined: Apr 3, 08 Gender: Male	May 13, 09, 00:27 / #14
Crow: we had one Milos Obilic Who? Crow: (Voivode of knights that killed Turkish sultan in battle, 1389) oh,him,how could I forget such recent history..... Crow: and Gavrilo Princip The terrorist? Crow: (killed occupational Austro-Hungarian archduke Ferdinand, 1914). Oh yeah,the one who caused Europe to slip into WW1,yeah,thanks for that gavi old brate. Crow: You can`t imagine how is good to be Serb, aware of sh that attacking you, aware that sh hates you, aware that you are different from sh** We can in the UK,theyre called Scousers....... Crow: For our resistance we are punished. You mean the Serb Chetniks who sided with the nazis against Tito? Yeah,sorry for not liking bearded savages who burn babies.....

SeanusThreads: 19 Posts: 22,785 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	May 13, 09, 18:36 / #16
I think there is a healthy relationship at the intergovernmental level between Ukraine and Poland. Kwaśniewski, in his day, certainly thought so ;) Look at how quick Kaczyński was to support Yushenko.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 19, 08 Gender: Male GOLD MEMBER	May 13, 09, 18:45 / #17
Nathan: Why is it always Russians and Serbs want some Panslavic empire? I thought those times felt into oblivion. Most of Ukrainians and Belorussians don't mind to have a union with Russia as well. What's your nation, bud? Who are you? Nathan: Ukraine is and will be a strong ally of Poland as it was many times in history. Could you remind me of the last time it was? I don't even ask for "many"...

NathanThreads: 12 Posts: 1,170 Joined: Feb 13, 09 Gender: Male	May 13, 09, 18:50 / #18
Sasha: Could you remind me of the last time it was? Last time - it is an ally right now. Before - open up history books and find out. Sasha: I thought those times felt into oblivion You thought? Oblivion? You live in oblivion.

HarryThreads: 26 Posts: 4,543 Joined: May 2, 07 Gender: Male	May 12, 09, 23:28 / #11
Crow: same sh** that happening to Serbs coming to get you If Poles act like Serbians have for the past two decades, they'll deserve everything which is happening to Serbia. What goes around comes around and you are now getting what you have given for too long.

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Crow May 12, 09, 23:33 / #12
Sokrates: we'd let Serbia and Slovakia go to hell before we'd say a word against Hungary. sure. i understand if you say a word against Hungary it would turn to Germany. Eh,.... it would turn to Germany anyway in the same time, Serbs are Serbs... Serbs understand Poles, Serbs won`t turn to anybody against Poland. How could we turn against you, against ourselves? Harry: If Poles act like Serbians have for the past two decades, they'll deserve everything which is happening to Serbia. What goes around comes around and you are now getting what you have given for too long. we had one Milos Obilic (Voivode of knights that killed Turkish sultan in battle, 1389) and Gavrilo Princip (killed occupational Austro-Hungarian archduke Ferdinand, 1914). For our resistance we are punished. You can`t imagine how is good to be Serb, aware of sh that attacking you, aware that sh hates you, aware that you are different from sh Seanus: You need to awaken some Poles awakening would be painfull How to awake Pole who sleep with words: ``Listen brate, today`s Russia is lesser sh then USA, Britain and France. Try to work with Russians. Russia is more Western then so called west- also called Eurabia`` first words of awakening Pole would be: ``Fu** you! Let me continue to sleep, reality is so ugly!``

HarryThreads: 26 Posts: 4,543 Joined: May 2, 07 Gender: Male	May 12, 09, 23:51 / #13
Crow: For our resistance we are punished. No, for your habit of invading the countries near you, raping the women and murdering the men, you are punished.

NathanThreads: 12 Posts: 1,170 Joined: Feb 13, 09 Gender: Male	May 13, 09, 00:36 / #15
Crow: no. i am sad to notice that Poland destroying Ukraine. Same way as Poland failed to support surviovor of Catholic Serbs as Serbs, Poland failes to support survivor of Ukraine nation as Orthodox and Catrholic in the same time. You made same mistake as Russians and as result Ukrainian people would suffer. i concluded that Polish and Russian inteligentsias aren`t mature enough, not enough serious. Sokrates: and advocating its presence in EU and NATO that would kill Ukraine, innitiate Civil War in Ukraine, weakening Polish eastern positions, reduce number of Slavs, reduce Polish diplomatic and defansive manuverable space when Germany (so called west) increase pressure on Poland, move Poland in hostility with Russia,... What a f*** are you talking about? Weaken positions, reduce maneuverable space, increase pressure on Poland? Who is killing Ukraine? Poland supports Ukraine in its move towards the West. For my country it is a breathe of freedom so wanted for a long time. I know that Serbs and Russians support each other's emperial urge, but we are living in a new world, Crow. Why is it always Russians and Serbs want some Panslavic empire? Hm? You are not able to survive on your own? You like to rule others? I know. But it won't happen. Ukraine is and will be a strong ally of Poland as it was many times in history.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 19, 08 Gender: Male GOLD MEMBER	May 13, 09, 19:07 / #19
Nathan: Before - open up history books and find out Would you mind sending me some from Western Ukraine, since I wouldn't be able to find them anywhere else.

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	May 13, 09, 19:29 / #20
Nathan: What a f*** are you talking about? Weaken positions, reduce maneuverable space, increase pressure on Poland? Who is killing Ukraine? Poland supports Ukraine in its move towards the West. For my country it is a breathe of freedom so wanted for a long time. I know that Serbs and Russians support each other's emperial urge, but we are living in a new world, Crow. Why is it always Russians and Serbs want some Panslavic empire? Hm? You are not able to survive on your own? You like to rule others? I know. But it won't happen. Ukraine is and will be a strong ally of Poland as it was many times in history. good if you understand yourself because i don`t understand you. Its always good when one understand himself. Its sane but well, keep beleive in YOUR truth i don`t have problem with Ukraine, nor me, nor any Serb as i know. God forbid (to put cross on myself). Serbians are alive as ethos only thanks to Polish, Russian and Ukrainian help during Ottoman occupation. So, my love goes for all those kin Slavic nations. i wish all the best to Ukraine. I criticized politics, here particulary Polish politics,... while we of course can criticize Russian moves and incompetence of Ukrainian politicians, too

IronsideThreads: 30 Posts: 2,639 Joined: Feb 26, 09 Gender: Male	Edited by: Ironside May 13, 09, 19:54 / #21
Crow: How to awake Pole who sleep with words: ``Listen brate, today`s Russia is lesser sh** then USA, Britain and France. Try to work with Russians. Russia is more Western then so called west- also called Eurabia`` Well, Russia don't want such alliance!

NathanThreads: 12 Posts: 1,170 Joined: Feb 13, 09 Gender: Male	Edited by: Nathan May 14, 09, 16:49 / #22
Sasha: Would you mind sending me some from Western Ukraine, since I wouldn't be able to find them anywhere else. Well, why from Ukraine, I will send you from Internet :) Petlura and Pilsutsky alliance to fight bolsheviks, het'man Sahajdachnyj helped Polish to recover their king's son Wladyslaw from Moskovites in 1620 when 20,000 Cossacks army defeated Russians in two battles. In 1621 the same hetman was asked by Polish to help with Turks which won in Cecora battle before. Polish army presented 35,000 and hetman Sahajdachnij with 40,000 Ukrainian army together held resistance to 200,000 Ottoman army at Khotyn. Hetman Vyhowskij who defeated Russians at Konotop in 1657 was working to arrange some mutual understanding with Polish even though unsuccessfully. If there was less arrogance at certain periods of both countries' mutual history, Ukraine and Poland would have defeated Sweden during Potop much faster, Russians during that war and Turks - no problem. As you see even these couple alliances made a big mark in the history.

SeanusThreads: 19 Posts: 22,785 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 28, 09, 16:38 / #23
Anuszka, any thoughts? Do you read any Polish press?

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 764 Joined: May 26, 08 Gender: Male	Jun 28, 09, 17:40 / #24
Harry: Remind me: how many European nations have arabs invaded in the last 50 years? Now tell me how many European nations slavs other than Poles have invaded in the last 20 years. Number please? What's your source? Did you get them from here? http://www.scaruffi.com/politics/massacre.html