What is the future of Catholic church in Poland.

mafketis:

It wasn't religion per se, it was his religious views on a particular issue he would have to deal with in his public capacity (enforcing positions he's opposed to). It's called "Conflict of interests".

An analogy: Let's say there's a EU commisioner for religious discrimination and a protestant nominee for the position is on public record as saying that Roman Catholicism is an evil religion and that all Roman Catholics are doomed to an eternity in Hell for worshipping a mortal man and a woman(!) over Jesus Christ.
Of course, he reassures you, those are his personal opinions only and would not influence how he carries out his duties at all. Are you going to support him?

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Sep 28, 08, 15:19 / #
I ask serious question. How do you see the future of Catholic Church in Poland and other christian religions future. PM Buzek was protestant so lets talk about christians in general. No body had problems with him being protestant. We are tradtional stronghold fo Christianity. EU is agains christian politicians http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rocco_Buttiglione he is exaple of christian who can't be EU commisioner because of his personal believes. What do you think about our future. His being proposed as a European Commissioner resulted in controversy, as some political groups opposed him for his Roman Catholic views on homosexuality, despite his assurances that these were only his personal convictions and would not dictate his administration. We have first persecutions ... in politics and real life. Isn't it possible to be good christian and expert in the same moment work in european administration ? Why my religous believes are so important when we talk about being architect lawer politician ? Are atheists better than religous people ? In UK people get penalties for making christian cross signs. Boruc is nice example. I don't know what to think about it. What do you think about future of christian religion in Poland? In such hostile enviroment. Where is this freedom ?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Sep 28, 08, 16:25 / #
Boruc was slated for being inflammatory Łukasz. Personally, I feel that he had every right to cross himself but the Rangers fans interpreted it differently. As for the future of the Catholic church, it is still afforded the opportunity to make its voice heard. Stations like Radio Maria make sure of that. Also, Poles must look inward. Many are not practising Catholics, this comes from their decision. Don't blame this on outside sources so much. Freedoms haven't been removed. If u want some articles on Christianity and the Law, read Paul Beaumont. He is Head of Law School at Aberdeen University, the place where I got my Masters. He is a practising Christian and eminent Professor, a man who taught me much. Just don't play the poor us role too quickly. It's not as bad as u think.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Sep 28, 08, 19:56 / #
The problem is that person couldn't become EU commisioner because of religion. It is dicrimination. It was only reason why he was rejected ... he was catholic in his private life.

mbiernatThreads: 3 Posts: 116 Joined: Sep 24, 08	Sep 29, 08, 00:28 / #
I can only say what I saw in the USA. 1) it started as a Religious traditional country. 2) 1970s people turned from religion 3) 1980s people returned back to religion but many in different forms. Poland is not western europe. I think, or hope even if there is a turning away from traditional religion in Poland with the young people might come back. The issue with the church in Poland is many students complain about the conservative priests giving conservative sermons that do not appeal to them. But these are 20 year olds etc, I was like that at 20. So was the case in the US. The American Catholic church had to change a bit. I guess what I am saying is this. I hope Poland is different from Western Europe. Many Poles just want to be western. I am American. I am Western. There is nothing all that great about it, believe me. I hope the young Poles continue to see that Poland is a special place and should not try to imitate all things western.

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Sep 29, 08, 00:32 / #
Seanus: Many are not practising Catholics Practicing Catholics :D ... even those who are, are such unpracticing that words cant describe. Try and be a Christian first and then think catholicism.... Future of the Churches are not so nice I think. Religion ofcourse should be free to choose and follow. But I think people are becoming more free and they are becoming more aware. People need a way of life adaptable to this world we live in. 2008 era! not 1 BC!

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Sep 29, 08, 00:39 / #
Lodz_The_Boat: Practicing Catholics :D ... even those who are, are such unpracticing that words cant describe. Try and be a Christian first and then think catholicism.... Future of the Churches are not so nice I think. Religion ofcourse should be free to choose and follow. But I think people are becoming more free and they are becoming more aware. People need a way of life adaptable to this world we live in. 2008 era! not 1 BC! Fanatic ! :)

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Sep 29, 08, 00:46 / #
Lukasz: Fanatic Good description. My fellow Pole (considering you are one)... you can go ahead with Catholicism ... there are people in my family who do! Ofcourse you are all free. But the majority of people who are modern and who know how to think need more answers... more investigation...before choosing a way of life.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Sep 29, 08, 00:50 / #
Lodz_The_Boat: But the majority of people who are modern and who know how to think need more answers... more investigation...before choosing a way of life. Yes but I was trying to show something. Sometimes atheists or people like you react so sharply on catholics, from the other hand are much more impudent with their personal believes.

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Sep 29, 08, 00:55 / #
Lukasz: Sometimes atheists or people like you react so sharply on catholics Hey hey... firstly I am not an athiest... and I practice tolerance. Catholics got a history of intolerance which might be difficult to beat my friend. Dont just come to a conclusion ... do you have the wish to study the dark sides aswell? Do you wish to go deeper? You didnt tell me... are you a pole? Which part of Poland? :)

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Sep 29, 08, 01:05 / #
Lodz_The_Boat: Hey hey... firstly I am not an athiest... and I practice tolerance.Catholics got a history of intolerance which might be difficult to beat my friend.Dont just come to a conclusion ... do you have the wish to study the dark sides aswell? Do you wish to go deeper? You didnt tell me... are you a pole? Which part of Poland? :) Poznan my friend. I've studied about different religions but I was refering to one fact that it is normal to met somebody who try to impose their new religon on you but when you try to make form this person catholic... you are fanatic :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Sep 30, 08, 11:57 / #
Sorry, I agree with Łodz on this one. Maybe he recognises tolerance from seeing intolerance. There is a perception, whether Łodz or I agree with it is another matter, that Catholics are rigid and stubborn. Perhaps even righteous. U gotta ask urself (do I feel lucky?...LOL) how this perception came about.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Sep 30, 08, 12:38 / #
First or not first, others later can form different interpretations of the Bible and build up a steady following. Has history told us that the first to devise or conceive sth has always been correct and not refuted later? No

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Sep 30, 08, 12:58 / #
mbiernat: I think you lack the humility to see the world objectively. Why is it that discussion is not available in your dictionary. Why are you writing in a tone of attack. Can it not be more gentle and more understanding? About 2000 years ago they asked Jesus what he felt was his most important messege. He said 'Love for one another' Out of his messege evolved 20780 Distinct Religious Denominations...and they all hate each other.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Sep 30, 08, 19:43 / #
Seanus: First or not first, others later can form different interpretations of the Bible and build up a steady following. Has history told us that the first to devise or conceive sth has always been correct and not refuted later? No The argument wasn't about who is correct, who isn't. All Christian faiths build up on delusions of previous generations of deluded individuals or masses, and in the end they all dwell on delusions, and then argue that their own delusion is worth more than the delusion they borrow from.

mbiernatThreads: 3 Posts: 116 Joined: Sep 24, 08	Sep 30, 08, 11:52 / #
Lodz_The_Boat I think your are not tolerant at all. You just walk around saying you are, then out of the other side of your mouth bad mouth Catholics for intolerance. It makes you feel good. A real tolerant person would not make such a remark. Your true colors show through. Ha ha. I can not respect people like you. Would Ghandi or the Dali lama make a comment like "Catholics got a history of intolerance which might be difficult to beat my friend." Gee your a real tolerant peace loving guy. Ha ha ha.

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Sep 30, 08, 11:57 / #
mbiernat: "Catholics got a history of intolerance which might be difficult to beat my friend." but its true. And I am not in a position to influence so many people as those two you told about. So I can speak out my mind...without having to be looking at too many point at a time. :)

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Sep 30, 08, 12:06 / #
Lodz_The_Boat: Catholics got a history of intolerance which might be difficult to beat my friend. First, the RC is the original Christian church. All others are offshoots. I can't think of one christian sect without some history of intolerance.

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Sep 30, 08, 12:17 / #
z_darius: I can't think of one christian sect without some history of intolerance. True. z_darius: First, the RC is the original Christian church. All others are offshoots. All of them say the same thing (about themselves being the main and the rest offshoots). See... too many problems

mbiernatThreads: 3 Posts: 116 Joined: Sep 24, 08	Sep 30, 08, 12:37 / #
Lodz_The_Boat - Aristotle said 'man is a political animal.' any thing man touches he messes up. But are you not going to watch football because football fans are the worst or TV because the media is full of distortions. I think you lack the humility to see the world objectively. Are you going to condem the Polish nation for its imperial past? You get your juice from negative thinking if you see it or not. Its ok, it makes you feel good about yourself and then you say "I am tolerant." Ha ha ha

mbiernatThreads: 3 Posts: 116 Joined: Sep 24, 08	Sep 30, 08, 13:05 / #
Because you wrote this: "I practice tolerance. Catholics got a history of intolerance which might be difficult to beat my friend" Did you not write that 2 sided statement. But peace and love you are right I stated to get sucked into a forum discussion that usually ends in battle. Maybe I am over tired, I have been working too much. Sorry.

mbiernatThreads: 3 Posts: 116 Joined: Sep 24, 08	Sep 30, 08, 23:28 / #
z_darius what do you believe in? And to speak so strongly against another person's belief if not a sign of tolerance. But what do you believe in?

mbiernatThreads: 3 Posts: 116 Joined: Sep 24, 08	Oct 1, 08, 00:07 / #
z_darius "All Christian faiths build up on delusions" would you say that about the Jewish faith also? or about Mohamand?

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Oct 1, 08, 00:12 / #
mbiernat: "All Christian faiths build up on delusions" would you say that about the Jewish faith also? or about Mohamand? See.... dont confuse Religion with Tradition. After such long periods of time and total obedience....religions start becoming traditions...and then traditions are on the top, while religion gets lost somewhere. What is RC or EO (Eastern Orthodox)... these are just denominations.... traditions they have made....one by the Romans to secure themselves ...other by the easterners to claim their superiority. The Real messege of Christ was lost many hundreds/thousands of years ago. Same with the Jewish and Mohammed. In Bible Christ testifies about this fact on the Jewish case.

mbiernatThreads: 3 Posts: 116 Joined: Sep 24, 08	Oct 1, 08, 03:06 / #
Lodz_The_Boat - I do not think the message was lost. I think I know many good giving Christians today. I know scores of honest, humble charitable kind Christians. For every bad one, I know many good ones. A cynic will just see the negative and bad and highlight it and say 'see' look at this. I think the good ones are quietly doing the work of God by serving humanity. They do not toot their horns loud and therefore people like you do not notice them. In fact, I think this is the majority of the people I know. I do not know what kind of people you hang out with. But I also know many self rightous people who are anti religion and attack religion and do little in terms of charity themselves. Hmmm.

espanaThreads: 40 Posts: 2,233 Joined: Feb 28, 07	Oct 1, 08, 03:26 / #
What is the future of Catholic church in Poland? i dont know , The number of people leaving poland to live abroad is to high ,this will bring in some dirty muslims for sure :( catholic going out and muslims coming in , is not good :(

Lodz_The_BoatThreads: 58 Posts: 2,314 Joined: Sep 7, 08	Oct 1, 08, 03:53 / #
espana: dirty muslims for sure :( not neccessarity. There are more option. Baha'i faith I like to see as a good option. mbiernat: For every bad one, I know many good ones. Wonderful. Good for you. Every human had good or bad in them....be they whatever. But to say that Christianity makes them good is lame. I say the era of Christianity is far over and done with... what we are doing is dragging something....by giving it cover and fixing it so that it can suit the modern world.. and then suddenly we find out, only the name is the origional....rest is nothing but what we have put. Not many people Follow Christianity.... I can prove that you dont.

mafketisThreads: 17 Posts: 1,880 Joined: Mar 31, 08	Oct 1, 08, 04:17 / #
Lukasz: he problem is that person couldn't become EU commisioner because of religion. It is dicrimination. It was only reason why he was rejected ... he was catholic in his private life. It wasn't religion per se, it was his religious views on a particular issue he would have to deal with in his public capacity (enforcing positions he's opposed to). It's called "Conflict of interests". An analogy: Let's say there's a EU commisioner for religious discrimination and a protestant nominee for the position is on public record as saying that Roman Catholicism is an evil religion and that all Roman Catholics are doomed to an eternity in Hell for worshipping a mortal man and a woman(!) over Jesus Christ. Of course, he reassures you, those are his personal opinions only and would not influence how he carries out his duties at all. Are you going to support him?

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Oct 1, 08, 19:02 / #
mbiernat: z_darius "All Christian faiths build up on delusions" would you say that about the Jewish faith also? or about Mohamand? That is obvious, isn't it?

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Oct 1, 08, 19:33 / #
mafketis: It wasn't religion per se, it was his religious views on a particular issue he would have to deal with in his public capacity (enforcing positions he's opposed to). It's called "Conflict of interests". An analogy: Let's say there's a EU commisioner for religious discrimination and a protestant nominee for the position is on public record as saying that Roman Catholicism is an evil religion and that all Roman Catholics are doomed to an eternity in Hell for worshipping a mortal man and a woman(!) over Jesus Christ. Of course, he reassures you, those are his personal opinions only and would not influence how he carries out his duties at all. Are you going to support him? I see your point but it is noticable that people with strong left views with decisions influenced by their personla views don't face such problems.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Oct 2, 08, 16:50 / #
Lukasz: We have first persecutions ... in politics and real life. Isn't it possible to be good christian and expert in the same moment work in european administration ? Why my religous believes are so important when we talk about being architect lawer politician ? Are atheists better than religous people ? In UK people get penalties for making christian cross signs. Boruc is nice example. I don't know what to think about it. What do you think about future of christian religion in Poland? In such hostile enviroment. Where is this freedom ? The Catholic Church will do well in Poland, and in other countries...For example, I read a story in the NY Times yesterday about Catholic schools in France, which is a country founded on atheism in the modern era...The Catholic schools are accepting Muslims, because many Muslims reject the 'secular' French schools were their girls are persecuted, and cannot wear headscarves...The Catholic schools do not enforce this religious persecution...Muslims in Catholic schools, you may ask?... Better for the Catholics to show this tolerance and let the Muslims attend...Some will think that the catholic schools will be subverted by this...No, I say...Jesus Christ works in mysterious ways at times, and through the kindness of local parrish priests, as shown here, many Muslims will be, in fact, converted, and learn about Christ...Read the story of Jesus and the Samaritan woman. Also, do not confuse the Church with the Vatican...the Vatican is a political entity, a dead bureucracy akin to the EU...in fact, through the mechanism/spirit of Freemasonry, they work together...Christianity will never die, because you cannot kill Jesus Christ...He is risen...But, if the Polish and European people turn their face from Him, then all will be lost.