Lithuania, Poland Leaders Warn EU Against Russia Talks

VILNIUS (AFP)--There should be no European Union talks with Russia until it fully respects the ceasefire with Georgia, the leaders of Lithuania and Poland insisted Monday.

In a joint statement, Lithuanian President Valdas Adamkus and his Polish opposite number Lech Kaczynski, said they were "deeply concerned with the lack of will on the Russian side."

Adamkus and Kaczynski highlighted a failure to respect ceasefire clauses covering the withdrawal of Russian troops to pre-conflict positions and on free access to humanitarian aid.

Both Lithuania and Poland are staunch allies of Georgia's pro-Western leadership.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 13, 08, 14:21 / #
Lithuania, Poland Leaders Warn EU Against Russia Talks 11-3-08 http://news.morningstar.com/newsnet/ViewNews.aspx?article=/DJ/20081103 1522DOWJONESDJONLINE000530_univ.xml VILNIUS (AFP)--There should be no European Union talks with Russia until it fully respects the ceasefire with Georgia, the leaders of Lithuania and Poland insisted Monday. In a joint statement, Lithuanian President Valdas Adamkus and his Polish opposite number Lech Kaczynski, said they were "deeply concerned with the lack of will on the Russian side." Adamkus and Kaczynski highlighted a failure to respect ceasefire clauses covering the withdrawal of Russian troops to pre-conflict positions and on free access to humanitarian aid. Both Lithuania and Poland are staunch allies of Georgia's pro-Western leadership. i realy don`t understand why would Poland interfere in Caucasus situation, especialy if we are aware that so called west isn`t nor innocent in Georgia conflict, nor perfect in general that Kacz realy confusing me

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Nov 13, 08, 15:10 / #
It isn't really the place of Poland to forestall talks with Russia. Diplomacy and dialogue are vital.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Nov 13, 08, 15:13 / #
And somehow they conveniently ignore who started this little squabble....but as long as it's going against Russia all is fair play! Blessed cooler and smarter heads prevail in Brussels....

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Nov 13, 08, 15:14 / #
A rather brave effort to stand up to Russia with our historic ally, but pointless altogether, as Tusk is calling the shots, and he is obviously with Sarkozy and the rest of the EU ass-kissers.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Nov 13, 08, 15:16 / #
Bratwurst Boy: but as long as it's going against Russia all is fair play! Perhaps they use it as the easiest way to get cheap popularity within Poland.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 13, 08, 15:18 / #
Filios1: A rather brave effort to stand up to Russia with our historic ally, but pointless altogether, as Tusk is calling the shots, and he is obviously with Sarkozy and the rest of the EU ass-kissers. What's so brave about it? Russia won't hardly invade Poland or Lithuania now and punish them for their opinion. And why are they ignoring the true culprit but allying with them? There is only hypocrisy and long term political games + inherited historical grudges but no bravery!

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Nov 13, 08, 15:26 / #
Dialogue is acceptable between Poland and Russia... and it will happen sooner or later, with or without Russian withdrawal from Georgia. I have already stated that these two countries need to become closer, economically, but at the same time, they need to be mutually respectful.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Nov 13, 08, 15:29 / #
Filios1: I have already stated that these two countries need to become closer, economically, but at the same time, they need to be mutually respectful. Well said. But still I don't understand why Polish Gov always puts obstacles on the Russian way...

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Nov 13, 08, 15:43 / #
Sasha: Well said. But still I don't understand why Polish Gov always puts obstacles on the Russian way... Russians. You must work hard to understand these obstacles, and see them not as malicious Polish behaviour, but sometimes just the 'overextension' or unrealistic ambitions of Polish govermnent. You must see the Polish stance beside Lithuania (by the President, not the Prime Minister) as merely political games. Lithuania has been historic ally with Poland, and Kaczynski is playing up to the Poles who see this as the right thing to do.

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,387 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Nov 13, 08, 15:47 / #
<div class="quoting">Sasha: Well said. But still I don't understand why Polish Gov always puts obstacles on the Russian way...</div> You have been misinformed. The obstacles have been put by two Presidents: Kaczyński and Adamkus. But the foreign policy in Poland is primarily run by the government led by Prime Minister Tusk. To the best of my knowledge, Polish government hasn`t put forward any objections to EU talks with Russia. The Union's foreign ministers yesterday (10 November) decided to proceed with negotiations over a new EU-Russia basic treaty, disregarding the objections of small member state Lithuania. Despite this, in view of the political importance of the matter, the Commission and the Council had made huge efforts to make a unanimous decision. Several countries, including Poland, agreed with the view that negotiating with Russia was the best way to defend EU interests. euractiv.com/en/enlargement/eu-overrules-lithuania-russia-talks/articl e-177071 Crow, why do you misinform people in the forum?

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Edited by: Filios1 Nov 13, 08, 15:56 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Doesn't matter if he's right or wrong? Who is to judge that? But, you obviously have a hard time understanding the Polish psyche... Anyway the real issue is Kaczynski and Tusk, at it again. They counter each other any way they possibly can. This is just another attempt by Kaczynski to go against Tusk, regardless if you call the warnings right or wrong.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 14, 08, 10:18 / #
Daisy: Crow, please stop being so paranoid, people are not out to get you. I know you don't have a tendancy to go off topic, because you focus on one thing, but I'm afraid a lot of us do, we mean no malice by it...I'm afraid I'm one of the biggest offenders, I'm always going off on a tangent, it's not deliberate, it's just the way I am.....I so wish you could lighten up a little, but I doubt you will :( bottom line is that i understand everything and that i believe you

joariusThreads: 1 Posts: 3 Joined: Nov 11, 08	Nov 14, 08, 10:47 / #
I see no point in accusing Russia for the georgian situatione since the georgian president is one of the worse dictators in the caucasian area. They are doing the exact same thing as EU did some time ago, they are supporting the Abkhasian and south ossetians demands for independence. The same way as EU supported Kosovo and Monte negro breaking free from Serbia. The only difference I see is that Russia chose to go in with force, while EU threatens to economically isolate Serbia if they don't follow their demands.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 14, 08, 11:05 / #
Crow: Behind Polish political confrontation with Russia are forces closed to Germany, that`s the only logical explanation. He..:) Crow: It is Germany who would profit on Polish failure in global politics and in the critical moment, Germans could suggest split/division of Poland. ! (To much hassle I assure you) Crow: So, i accusing Polish President Kaczynski and PM Tusk, all togather with Mr. Sikorski for collaboration with Germany. Well...we are together in the EU and NATO now, I would hope we work together now! But isn't that the meaning of such memberships? Mind you Crowie...once Serbia is also a member we will all work together towards a better future!

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Nov 13, 08, 15:49 / #
Filios1: and Kaczynski is playing up to the Poles who see this as the right thing to do. That's what I thought.

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Nov 13, 08, 15:50 / #
Sasha: That's what I thought Let me rephrase that... Playing up to the Poles who think standing behind a lonely Lithuania is the right thing to do...

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 13, 08, 15:53 / #
Filios1: Playing up to the Poles who think standing behind a lonely Lithuania is the right thing to do... Doesn't matter if he's right or wrong?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Nov 13, 08, 16:06 / #
Filios1: Who is to judge that? Georgia was the agressor clearly, they started the war, fact! Filios1: But, you obviously have a hard time understanding the Polish psyche... That has no place in international policy and diplomacy.... Filios1: This is just another attempt by Kaczynski to go against Tusk, I thought so...a highly unprofessional man this Kaczynski....abusing his place and position to go after his personal likes and dislikes (as before against Germany too).

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Nov 13, 08, 16:09 / #
I agree BB. Kaczyński is a man hellbent on teaching Russia a lesson. It was horrible to see such high-level politicians stand up and portray Russia as the aggressor. How sad!! He should hang his head in shame.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 14, 08, 02:31 / #
pawian: Crow, why do you misinform people in the forum? how is that so? from me, Poles could expect only brutal truth. Seanus: Diplomacy and dialogue are vital. Poland should profit and be real protagonist of EU dialogue with Russia. Taking position of thampon zone between Russia and rest of EU could be fatal for Poland. Behind Polish political confrontation with Russia are forces closed to Germany, that`s the only logical explanation. It is Germany who would profit on Polish failure in global politics and in the critical moment, Germans could suggest split/division of Poland. They did it to Yugoslavia and used NATO/EU/USA as their tool. On the example of Poland they could try to manipulate EU and Russia. I hope that both- Poles and Russians aren`t stupid. i starting to believe that Kaczynski and Tusk (Sikorski, too - as if) play same game just on the principle `bad-good policeman`. It is they who helping to Germany in creation of Greater Albania/Greater Croatia weakening traditional Polish partners on Balkan- Serbians. As it was always in history, attack on Serbs announced attack on Poland. So, i accusing Polish President Kaczynski and PM Tusk, all togather with Mr. Sikorski for collaboration with Germany.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 14, 08, 12:45 / #
joarius: The same way as EU supported Kosovo and Monte negro breaking free from Serbia. The only difference I see is that Russia chose to go in with force, while EU threatens to economically isolate Serbia if they don't follow their demands. you don`t understand situation and it is questionable are you capable to enter in internet disscusions. Listen... i would tell you about the difference EU used brutal force on Serbians even commited genocide on them and took part in selling Serbians for organ extraction, EU populating mujaheeines and Albanians on Kosovo, EU interfered in referendum in Montenegro and encouraged secesion but even so, those were voices of Albanian minority in Montenegro who decided about Montenegro`s secesion. If EU or any other force decide to split and destroy Poland, you would hardly found Serbian who would say: `.... breaking free from Poland`, as you for example insulting Serbians here. Serbs are Serbs, they would kill for Slavija, for Poland, they would create great sh** joarius i hope that you now see that your lack in knowladge about real events and facts greatly frustrate you in internet disscusions Bratwurst Boy: Mind you Crowie...once Serbia is also a member we will all work together towards a better future! sure, Evil Union could anex Serbia but, pleasure of destroying it would be ours Should i remind you what happened to Austro-Hungaria? to Ottomans? ahaha ahahah hahah hahahah ahaha hahah ahaha ahahah ahahah

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Nov 14, 08, 12:52 / #
Crow: ehind Polish political confrontation with Russia are forces closed to Germany, that`s the only logical explanation. You are suggesting that Germany which officially supports russian positions inspires secretly polish government to adopt anti-russian attitude?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Nov 14, 08, 13:00 / #
Crow: Should i remind you what happened to Austro-Hungaria? to Ottomans? Erm...the last thing I heard through a survey a majority of about 70 percent or the Serbians are in favour of a EU-membership.... That is similiar to the Ottomans how exactly???

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Nov 14, 08, 13:18 / #
Crow: southern: You are suggesting that Germany which officially supports russian positions inspires secretly polish government to adopt anti-russian attitude? exactly I don't think Germans are able for so complicated politics.It is some portion of Poles who consciously adopt this anti-russian attitude.Germany sees this as an obstacle to smooth relationships with Russia.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Edited by: Seanus Sep 20, 09, 23:39 / #
Talks were needed and that's how Sarkozy brokered a ceasefire. Kaczyński almost got killed for his efforts there in Georgia.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Sep 20, 09, 23:40 / #
Seanus: Kaczyński almost got killed for his efforts there. by France?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Sep 20, 09, 23:46 / #
Edited for slackness. No, he was in a car with Saakashvili and got shot at.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Sep 20, 09, 23:50 / #
Seanus: No, he was in a car with Saakashvili and got shot at. i thought that the shots were fired into the air.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Sep 20, 09, 23:53 / #
I heard they were fired at the car. More propaganda by the sounds of it.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Sep 20, 09, 23:56 / #
i'll let someone else do a wiki. after all i guess the point is the same