Missile Base, Obama to trade for Russian pressure on Iran?

JohnP:

I think you give Obama a bit much credit. While he was "waiting to see how things play out" in Iran, the obvious answer was all around him as people were beaten and women were being gunned down in the streets of Tehran for protesting the election "results".

NathanThreads: 12 Posts: 1,178 Joined: Feb 13, 09 Gender: Male	Apr 3, 09, 03:01 / #31
Randal: If I find something that I feel strongly enough about to go and protest, I won't be a coward and hide my face Did you have or will ever find?

RandalThreads: 1 Posts: 759 Joined: Feb 14, 09 Gender: Male	Apr 3, 09, 03:15 / #32
Nathan: Did you have or will ever find? Well, over here protesters overwhelmingly are emotional Lefties. But I’ve been considering joining one of the growing tax/ spending protests of Obama. If it’s convenient, nearby and easy. Lol… But I wouldn’t hide my face!

NathanThreads: 12 Posts: 1,178 Joined: Feb 13, 09 Gender: Male	Apr 3, 09, 03:22 / #33
Randal: If it’s convenient, nearby and easy Don't judge and you won't be judged. Everyone has reasons and many of them we don't know. She might be scared to lose her job or something else. Nobody knows. Maybe she is planning a political career and doesn't want to have a photo of hers later brought up when she is running for presidency in Poland. Who knows? I know you prefer the protest to happen in your backyard with barbecue grill and tortillas.

RandalThreads: 1 Posts: 759 Joined: Feb 14, 09 Gender: Male	Apr 3, 09, 03:25 / #34
No. Only cowards hide their faces. Stand by your convictions or STFU. Just like signing one's name to a letter to the editor.

NathanThreads: 12 Posts: 1,178 Joined: Feb 13, 09 Gender: Male	Apr 3, 09, 03:35 / #35
I think hiding your face behind a smile is worse than hiding your face behind a mask. At least, the latter shows your true identity while the former is stating that you are lower than you appear to be.

SeanusThreads: 19 Posts: 22,892 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 24, 09, 11:56 / #36
Obama is upping the pressure on Iran, issuing condemnation. He'd better reacquaint himself with America's history before pointing the finger. As Metallica said, 'judge not, lest thee be judged yourself'. Unfortunately, the American corporate/military directorship, which has the power to enforce its' definition of "disorder", sees democracy as a threat and permanent counter-revolution as a "national security" requirement (from the following link, http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/suppression.html). The above article is excellent and I recommend all Americans to read it. I'd be livid if I were an Iranian. Obama needs to get out of their business and reread things mentioned in the article.

JohnPThreads: - Posts: 544 Joined: Sep 8, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 25, 09, 03:25 / #37
Sean, I think you give Obama a bit much credit. While he was "waiting to see how things play out" in Iran, the obvious answer was all around him as people were beaten and women were being gunned down in the streets of Tehran for protesting the election "results". He has political stake in the current regime surviving, as even prior to his election he was making plans thinking he could somehow with his (wit?) charm the Mullahs. Or perhaps he is beholden to them in other ways that we do not know about(?) The administration claims that the Iranian people did not want the "meddling" or otherwise attention of Americans and others is also false. Otherwise, why were the signs in English? Imagine the risk that was. Pres. Obama seems to have too much vested in Ahmadinejad and Khomenei staying in power for him to really want to risk any decisive statements, let alone action. Iran's neighbors are enjoying more freedom, thanks to a less popular President, and her citizens see it. They mistakenly thought, after hearing buzz phrases like "hope" and "change we can believe in" and "yes we can" and well written electronically cued speeches supposedly to the people of the Muslim world, that this President would at least stand up for them politically. Instead, he waited until the media coverage forced him to make a statement, one that was incredibly ambivalent when listened to in full, but could say just about anything one wanted it to. So much for freedom;as we speak Iranian secret police are going through their citizens' mobile twitter and facebook account records. When they struck out against unfairness in their own country, one cannot blame them for hoping for a small amount of support from the outside world. Which brings us to the OT...hate to say it but while Bush was not so great on public speaking he did not have a problem taking action. Obama is exactly the opposite. He is (with his prompter anyway) an eloquent spokesman, but the jury is still out as to him being a good leader. Don't count on his help more than tough words, unless you are an American business he wishes to take over and run. In one breath he assures South Korea (and others) they are our allies (implying we would protect them from incoming NK missiles) but before he finishes his sentence he bans Boeing from even testing their THAAD interceptors, and cuts funding to the program completely. Stating he is doing something to protect while cutting off the funding for that exact program....is called "lying" where I grew up, but perhaps I have a too simplistic view. Iran and NK have demonstrated open collaboration on weapons design, so contrary to guffaws as recently as last year it would never happen, either one of them can reach all of Europe now, while NK can even reach the US. This is assuming the TPD2 missiles only go as far as we think they do. Which isn't a safe bet. Thank goodness no nasty American interceptors are in Europe to shoot them down. Wouldn't want Russia being upset about anything, after all. John P.

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09 Gender: Male	Jun 25, 09, 04:06 / #38
JohnP: I think you give Obama a bit much credit. While he was "waiting to see how things play out" in Iran, the obvious answer was all around him as people were beaten and women were being gunned down in the streets of Tehran for protesting the election "results". Right John, so the US military needs to run in and save the day. Right? Obama realizes Iraq is none of our business. It's not even a threat to us. Funny how the Europeans don't seem that alarmed by Tehran and it's in their backyard. We are not the world's policemen and we're flat broke. Bad things happen, John they always have and they always will. Not the US's job to fix them. You are nothing but a warmonger and a clown.

JohnPThreads: - Posts: 544 Joined: Sep 8, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 25, 09, 04:13 / #39
scrappleton and you are mildly retarded, since you started out with name calling. In spite of your (apparent love) for our President, it is also apparent that you have failed to put him to the same standards our last Presidents have had to meet. Whether that is because you swallow the one-sided media support or something else, is beyond me. Oh, and nobody said anything about Iraq, or even anything about the military, but a few words of support for the Iranian people BEFORE they were being bludgeoned might have been nice. Go back to your TV. John P.

SeanusThreads: 19 Posts: 22,892 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Seanus Jun 26, 09, 20:49 / #40
Everyone here needs to stop believing the spin and watch 'Iran is not the Problem'. Scrappy, look at the article above for why I was angry at the US administration calling Iran to account when their record is pretty darn appalling too. Just do me a favour and read the whole article, it may open your eyes. Yes, Obama is not connected to it directly but America is the last country that should be instructing others on how to deal with protesters. I will support Russia if America attacks Iran. Not that I prefer the Ruskies by any stretch but attacking Iran is wrong for all the reasons outlined in the above video. These WMD lies have to stop. It was Zinn that talked about there being no flag big enough to cover the shame of killing so many innocent people. Leave the Iranians alone please. Go and suck more Saudi co*k to keep that oil flowing.

JohnPThreads: - Posts: 544 Joined: Sep 8, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 27, 09, 04:18 / #41
Sean, until that last bit I used to respect your posts. I take it you have electricity where you work? How about a car? Motorcycle? Does your home have heat in the winter or perhaps AC in the summer? America may get the brunt of the attention any time there's something to be done in the Middle East, and as always, everyone blames it on oil, but part of me believes that is because those countries are unable to do anything to help themselves and are therefore resentful. If you really had a problem with oil, you would turn off your electricity, heat, stop driving or riding anything fueled by it, stop using anything plastic (including clothing) or watching TV. Got a wooden keyboard do you? NO? then stop being a hypocrite. If anyone is suggesting military action against Iran, it hasn't been me, nor has it been America (under this or even the previous oft accused administration) although I believe in readiness and deterrence. Take the time to breath and pay attention to who was making those claims. It was members of the US Democratic party and other enemies of America's leadership at the time (and America herself?) who were stirring up what amounts to lies about their opponents, e.g. "to vote for my opponent, the Republican, is to vote for nuclear war with Iran", or to stir up more fighters for the various AQ and related cells with more propaganda. It was never based in truth. The only innocent people being killed in Iran are being killed by Iranians, in the name of the government they re-elected, or apparently if they didn't, they one they were informed by the supreme leader that they elected, prior to being beaten, tortured, or shot. Leave us out of it. It seems to me your own country has enough problems without you INVENTING ones that haven't happened to yell at America for. My only concern is that when our president had an opportunity to speak out, he did not, and when obvious strong arming was occurring he said nothing. The silence was deafening. Reagan, after all, during the Solidarity movement, did not send troops to attack Russia. It was his being prepared to do so, along with supporting the cause of freedom and fairness no matter what language or people its origin, that seemingly gave him success. Likewise, US troops did not march in, after blowing the Berlin wall down. The German people did it themselves. All Pres. Reagan did was demonstrate his support ("Mr. Gorbachev, Tear Down This Wall...."). Neither side in the current Iranian election was considered wildly pro American; however when all the ballots are hand written, but are oddly counted as wildly in Ahmadinejad's favor almost instantaneously...and then secret police proceed to beat, shoot, gas, etc. protesters (and find the ones who leaked the footage, thanks to a deal with Nokia/Siemens, and subject them to an unknown fate...) Nothing in US is even close to this. All Obama needed to do was speak up. He did not. Instead he cowed, and using very pretty words, said he would support the side that wins. How very brave of him. Russia is only complicit with Iran because Putin/Gazprom/Medvedev/etc had a deal with Ahmadinejad (for YOU GUESSED IT...oil oops did I say that?) prior to Bush being elected his first term. So in spite of what your video may or may not say, it comes down to what one man says versus another. Ahmadinejad says he wants nuclear power and a missile capable of launching a MARV errr "satellite" at exactly the same time? OK, sure I'll bite. Its your country who is in range, anyway. Not mine. I'm sure you won't, but if you get bored one day, look up the range for Iran's Shahab 6 (less sophisticated than their current missile) and then look at its identical twin, North Korea's TaePoDong-2, and pay attention to the area within range (of either of those two countries) with even those weapons. Its a safe bet the only part they are trying to figure is how to effectively mount a warhead (which they also already have). John P.

SeanusThreads: 19 Posts: 22,892 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 27, 09, 22:54 / #42
I'm aware that my country is in range and it doesn't bother me at all. I also don't fear NK. As for Iran, a propaganda campaign is being waged and it looks ugly.