No Way, No Apology! Poland has every right to support Georgia!

Prince:

In my opinion we can clearly say stah Germans calculete this pipe line as good toll to control political situation in europe but all countries on east from Germany are going to play in Russian team. Some countries strongly oppose this project but ... Germans don't ... and Germans will pay for their decisions.

PoleAmericanThreads: 3 Posts: 12 Joined: Oct 18, 08	Jan 1, 09, 22:11 / #
Poland is totally in the right! Poland has every right to put whatever she wants on her land. Poland is right to support Georgia. Georgia is a victim of Russian aggression. Georgia has a right to keep her country intact and Russia violated that.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Jan 2, 09, 03:22 / #
PoleAmerican: Poland is totally in the right! Poland has every right to put whatever she wants on her land. Poland is right to support Georgia Everybody has a right to be stupid. What is really important here - not to abuse that privilege.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Jan 2, 09, 06:22 / #
Sasha: Everybody has a right to be stupid. What is really important here - not to abuse that privilege. Look on Russian. He is typical. It is not problem that they are semi-slavic and we should cooperate with them. The problem is that they have learned to rob other neighbours. Now when oil prices go down ... maybe another lesson like in 90's will teach them something.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 2, 09, 06:36 / #
Poland is NOT totally in the right at all. I have found many people to have miscalculated events in the Caucasus. Russia was not reclaiming territory or seizing any, just putting things right.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Jan 2, 09, 06:37 / #
Everybody knows that NATO doesn't want to invaid Russia. Russian paranoia is Russian problem.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 2, 09, 06:40 / #
All this grandiose talk, so delusional. NATO is about checks and balances. Ukraine and Georgia are strategic assets for Russia. Putin often mentions that Stalin was Georgian by birth. Ukraine is undoubtedly Eastern European so Russia wants to retain a foothold there. I don't think Russians really fear any invasion. More of a mild incursion into territory that they see as being essentially Russian in nature (Ukraine and Georgia)

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Jan 2, 09, 06:42 / #
Ukrianians are not Russians. Georgians are not Russians. Each country has the right for own choices. Russians want assets :) ... well ... nothing new

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 2, 09, 06:45 / #
Oh, I agree fully Prince. However, that doesn't mean that the Russians agree with me. They are the proverbial puppets, Ukraine and Georgia. Self determination should remain with them but Russia is hanging on for dear life. Still, Timoshenko is quite pally with Russia so there is no imminent crisis. Ukraine has enough gas to see them through to April.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Edited by: ConstantineK Jan 2, 09, 06:53 / #
Russians are those who speaks Russian, thus pretty piece of Ukraine is Russian. Of course georgians and ukrainians do have a right to choose their way, but sure we (russians) do have the right to punish them if they will make wrong choice! The same is with Poland.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 2, 09, 06:56 / #
Russians are those who speak Russian, that's drivel. Kasparov speaks Russian and he is Azerbaijani. A Latvian speaks Russian (as well as Latvian), are they Russian? The same goes for other Baltic states. Even older people in Poland speak Russian, I'd never call them Russian tho.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Jan 2, 09, 07:26 / #
drivel? Don't think so! Today we are buying bankrupted Ukraine, but tomorrow who knows, may be we will acquire baltic states as well

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 2, 09, 07:32 / #
You are not buying anybody. They can survive for some time longer, until Yuschenko disappears and a puppet regime is installed by Timoshenko. The Baltic States are part of the EU, you cannot just envelop them willy-nilly. The moment you go for the Baltic states is the moment that a major conflict would flare up. Putin is too clever for that.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,726 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Jan 2, 09, 07:49 / #
ConstantineK: may be we will acquire baltic states as well You will not. Seanus: The moment you go for the Baltic states is the moment that a major conflict would flare up. Putin is too clever for that. It would not be a good strategy, agreed.

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Jan 2, 09, 08:01 / #
Who says that we cannot? Who will defend these "states"? You Seanus? I doubt! No, certainly we don't have this stupid idea of creating new EU. We just want to take back our territories. If you like those Ests or Latvians and etc, you can take them off all. We need the baltic coasts. That is all.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Jan 2, 09, 07:49 / #
Well Russians want to form EU2 but they do it in very very Russian way... Finaly if Nord Stream is going to be true... we will be forced to make aliance with Russia against the west

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 2, 09, 08:03 / #
Alliances are not the problem. Against the West, what do you mean?

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Jan 2, 09, 08:12 / #
I mean that ... Nord Sream means that Russians have Poland in their hands ... So aliance is going to be made in some way... Europe has Poland deep in her a ss. Nord Stream is the best prove. American domination is the best for Poland but ... America is weaker... Germans play in different team. 1) Aliance with America and close EU-American ties are the best for Poland or Czech republic 2) If Europe is going to build Nord Stream ... Russia is going to be second choice. Russia is anti western ... so Poland will be in such aliance. Lets hope we are going to get more gas from Norway and green industry but now it seems that we don't have support in so called EU. Poland is not idealogicaly against the west but it seems that "european west" doesn't treat Poland as part of family ...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 2, 09, 08:18 / #
Aha, in that way. Russia is not anti-Western per se. It is against over ambitious plans of the West to spread its wings into their domain. Norway seems to play on a more level playing field. Thank goodness!

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Edited by: ConstantineK Jan 2, 09, 08:30 / #
Exactly! Poles are idiots thinking that we want to include them in our state. These stupid thoughts are pushing them to interfer in russians affairs. As a result, it will bring them to open conflict with Russia. The result is obvious.

BorrkaThreads: 49 Posts: 770 Joined: Apr 25, 08	Edited by: Borrka Jan 2, 09, 09:01 / #
ConstantineK: The result is obvious. Agreed. Total bankruptcy of the oil driven Russia is a fact already. The next steep is splitting Russia into 3...4 parts. It will take about 5 years only so we'll be able to discuss it on the forum. I hope everybody understand that medium sized nation like Russians, surrounded by enemies only is not in position to control the huge territory on its own.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 2, 09, 09:04 / #
ConstantineK: The result is obvious. Victory. More of European culture spread in Asia.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 2, 09, 09:06 / #
Prince: Nord Sream means that Russians have Poland in their hands Prince: If Europe is going to build Nord Stream ... Russia is going to be second choice. Russia is anti western ... so Poland will be in such aliance. Erm....is it only me or is that a kind of crazy outlook??? You hate and fear the new pipeline because of possible blackmail by the Russians, but once it's build you want to be chums with Russia???

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Jan 2, 09, 09:24 / #
ConstantineK: Exactly! Poles are idiots thinking that we want to include them in our state. These stupid thoughts are pushing them to interfer in russians affairs. As a result, it will bring them to open conflict with Russia. The result is obvious. No but when you will supply Germany and France by gas pipe line which is several times more expenisve and dangerous (there are some other than economical reasons to avoid Poland and baltic states) ... we are going to be in Russian team... Poland will be independent ect but ... we are going to play on Russian side. Bratwurst Boy: You hate and fear the new pipeline, but once it's build you want to be chums with Russia??? Read above statements. In my opinion we can clearly say stah Germans calculete this pipe line as good toll to control political situation in europe but all countries on east from Germany are going to play in Russian team. Some countries strongly oppose this project but ... Germans don't ... and Germans will pay for their decisions.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 2, 09, 09:31 / #
We could solve the problem of energetic resources supplies years ago. It's only our fault that we haven't done that... and It was only a matter of time, when both -ids will create something like this. What's more, we still do nothing...

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 2, 09, 09:33 / #
Prince: In my opinion we can clearly say stah Germans calculete this pipe line as good toll to control political situation in europe but all countries on east from Germany are going to play in Russian team. Some countries strongly oppose this project but ... Germans don't ... and Germans will pay for their decisions. Your germanophobia knows no bounds, doesn't it Luki? :) How can you blame the Germans as it would be your future chums, the Russians, blocking the delivery of gas and oil, using it for blackmail, not Germany...

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Jan 2, 09, 09:34 / #
You think Borrka? Which parts do you mean? Don't say me about China, please try to invent somethig new! Or may be you mean that Poland is able to bite something from Russia? We are in different leagues Borrka. You can bark only by the orders from Washington, but remember georgian expirience! Nobody will defend you in case of real fight.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Jan 2, 09, 09:34 / #
This pipe line is 4 times more expenisve than normal pipe line. This pipe line is dangerous for enviroment. This is politicial pipe line. Bratwurst Boy: Germans as it would be your future chums, the russians, blocking the delivery of gas and oil, using it for blackmail, not Germany.. You give them tool and you know that.. That is why you are going to pay for that. Poland dependent on Russian supplies and avoided by new gas pipie lines will be in Russian team.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 2, 09, 09:36 / #
Prince: This pipe line is 4 times more expenisve than normal pipe line. This pipe line is dangerous for enviroment. This is politicial pipe line. But once it's build screw that and you go Russia-hugging...he :):):) Prince: You give them tool and you know that.. That is why you are going to pay for that. How?

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Jan 2, 09, 09:37 / #
Bratwurst Boy: But once it's build screw that and you go Russia-hugging...he :):):) Yes :)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jan 2, 09, 09:38 / #
Prince: Poland dependent on Russian supplies and avoided by new gas pipie lines will be in Russian team. Well...I have news for you Luki, Poland IS already dependent on Russian supplies! It is already for many years now...didn't hinder Poles to spit at Russians at every turn... Actually would you be more accomodating to Russia AND Germany NOW, the nordstream pipeline might never have been become a topic!