Petition the Prime Minister to Recognise the contribution of Polish Armed Forces

1jola:

z_darius:
From Financial Times (2005):

For the Poles and their military standards will be present for the first time in a British victory parade. Even though Poland made one of the largest contributions to the Allied war effort and there were thousands of Polish troops stationed in the UK at the time, the country was excluded from the original London celebration in 1946

Officials said the invitation was issued in April, after months of planning. The ground was laid two years ago when Mr Blair formally expressed regret to Poland for the 1946 parade snub.

Good find. Just so there is no mistake.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,429 Joined: May 28, 09	Jul 4, 09, 19:49 / #
Harry: ^ You may wish to read a history book. Pay particular attention to which leader refused to force Stalin to allow Soviet bases to be used to supply Warsaw. Another vague response from you.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Jul 5, 09, 04:17 / #
Harry: you seem to forget that the official government of Poland was also invited to send representatives and they also didn't bother to attend. Yes, it was invited. And we all know it was a sincere and heart felt invitation, and the Brits were heartbroken when the commies did not show up. They really counted in their attendance. Cross my heart, honest. You can tell stories like that to some half brains. Your agenda of belittling anything and offending Polish has been clear on PF for quite some time.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Jul 5, 09, 12:09 / #
And your agenda of lying about Poland and Poles has also been clear for some time. I am very impressed that you can read the minds of people who died decades ago with regard to an event which happened more than 60 years ago. But it's good that you have finally admitted that, despite all the lying links you have posted, both official Poles and western command Poles were invited to take part in the parade and were so asked in the same way as the USA and all other non-Commonwealth/Empire nations. Well, apart from no other nation having both its official and free forces invited.

Ozi DanThreads: 22 Posts: 552 Joined: Nov 22, 07	Jul 6, 09, 01:09 / #
Harry: How many f*cking times must we go over this? No need for profanity Mr Highpants. This obsession of yours will all be settled ONCE YOU PRODUCE A COPY OF THE PURPORTED INVITATION SENT TO THE NON-COMMUNIST POLISH PEOPLE YOU ALLEGE RECEIVED IT BUT DIDN'T SHOW UP. I've requested production of it previously but you failed to do so. We can't prove a negative, but you can prove your position. If you don't, you are a liar - it's that simple. Ball's in your court...

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,778 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Jul 6, 09, 02:07 / #
sledz: What are u about? Harry: the official government of Poland was also invited to send representatives and they also didn't bother to attend. What official government ? Soviet government of occupied Poland you mean ....

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Jul 6, 09, 16:39 / #
Ozi Dan: A COPY OF THE PURPORTED INVITATION SENT TO THE NON-COMMUNIST POLISH PEOPLE YOU ALLEGE RECEIVED IT BUT DIDN'T SHOW UP. I refer you to the memoirs of General Władysław Anders. On page 299 of An Army in Exile he clearly states that Polish airmen who took part in the Battle of Britain were invited to take part in the parade. If you'd like to call him a liar, I suggest you pay a visit to the Polish war cemetery at Monte Cassino in Italy: you can stand on his grave and call him a liar. It'd do you good to actually show some respect for the men who died fighting for Poland, you've never even once bothered to put a flower on a single grave of a man who died fighting for Poland. Ironside: What official government ? Soviet government of occupied Poland you mean .... I mean the internationally recognised government of Poland formed by Poles in Poland. Don't whine about the British failing to keep the Red Army out of your country: few Poles fought against the Red Army (except in the German army), so why do you always expect the British to have fought the Red Army for you?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,778 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Edited by: Ironside Jul 6, 09, 17:27 / #
Harry: I mean the internationally recognised government of Poland formed by Poles in Poland. Don't whine about the British failing to keep the Red Army out of your country: few Poles fought against the Red Army (except in the German army), so why do you always expect the British to have fought the Red Army for you? Formed by Poles? According to your terminology they were not Poles as they were communist not catholics ......and soviet government was formed by Stalin. Anyway in the soviet government of Poland there were a few Poles if anything, with president some obscure bloke who never had been citizen of independent Poland! A lot of Poles fought the Red Army and NKVD units in particular!!! I expect from the British nothing but if you talk about WWII I would expect them not to give up on their Polish allies and their legal government, so easily an brutally. It is too much to ask?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Jul 6, 09, 18:28 / #
Ironside: Formed by Poles? According to your terminology they were not Poles as they were communist not catholics ......and soviet government was formed by Stalin. Don't lie: they were Poles. That they were not Catholic (and nor were they Jewish) had nothing to do with their nationality. It is possible to be Polish and not Catholic. Ironside: Anyway in the soviet government of Poland there were a few Poles if anything, with president some obscure bloke who never had been citizen of independent Poland! Don't lie: Bolesław Bierut spent most of his life in Poland and was a citizen of interbellum Poland. Ironside: A lot of Poles fought the Red Army and NKVD units in particular!!! And far far far more Poles fought alongside the Red Army. A fact you would like to forget of course. Ironside: I expect from the British nothing but if you talk about WWII I would expect them not to give up on their Polish allies and their legal government, so easily an brutally. And as always I will ask the question which is traditionally asked to Poles who are whining about British actions in 1944/5 (which coincidentally is another of the questions which whining Poles never answer): exactly what would you have like Britain to have done to prevent the Red Army from occupying your country? Invade Russia perhaps?

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,778 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Jul 6, 09, 19:17 / #
Harry: Don't lie: they were Poles. That they were not Catholic (and nor were they Jewish) had nothing to do with their nationality. It is possible to be Polish and not Catholic. Really ? So, is it possible to be Jew and not Jewish ? There were some obscure figureheads about whom nobody heard before with one or two exception. Government of soviet Poland was formed by Stalin and Stalin alone!!! In the same way I can hypothetically, given right circumstances, handpick group of USA citizen and form government of the USA. Would they had been internationally recognized government formed by Americans in America? In a way yes, but very specific and provocative way - Harry way! Harry: Don't lie: Bolesław Bierut spent most of his life in Poland and was a citizen of interbellum Poland. Do you believe NKVD? and Soviet Officials? If so you should commit suicide being capitalistic imperialistic swine :) Harry: And far far far more Poles fought alongside the Red Army. A fact you would like to forget of course. Why forget ? You are making presumption and jumping to conclusions..... It means nothing ! Most of those Poles would do almost everything to get away from Soviet Russia and I don't blame them!Do you? Harry: And as always I will ask the question which is traditionally asked to Poles who are whining about British actions in 1944/5 (which coincidentally is another of the questions which whining Poles never answer): exactly what would you have like Britain to have done to prevent the Red Army from occupying your country? Invade Russia perhaps? I'm not whining I'm expressing my opinion on the subject!:) Britain should support Polish Government in London as only legal representation of independent Poland. No need to invade anybody. Some honor and consideration would had been enough!

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Jul 8, 09, 11:57 / #
Ironside: Really ? So, is it possible to be Jew and not Jewish ? You are confusing religion with nationality. Of course it is not possible to be a Jew and not Jewish. However it is possible to be Polish and not a Catholic, only a complete moron or an utter bigot would claim otherwise. Ironside: Government of soviet Poland was formed by Stalin and Stalin alone!!! No it was not. It was formed by a group of Polish citizens. Ironside: In the same way I can hypothetically, given right circumstances, handpick group of USA citizen and form government of the USA. Would they had been internationally recognized government formed by Americans in America? Please provide sources stating that Stalin handpicked the Polish provisional government. I would very much think that if the forces loyal to the above-mentioned government controlled the entire USA, they would very soon become the internationally recognised government of the USA and if it was formed by US citizens, it would be exactly as you describe. Ironside: Harry: Don't lie: Bolesław Bierut spent most of his life in Poland and was a citizen of interbellum Poland. Do you believe NKVD? and Soviet Officials? I believe interbellum Polish school, court and prison records. The simple fact is that Bierut spent at least 50 of his 64 years in Poland and was a citizen of interbellum Poland. Ironside: Harry: And far far far more Poles fought alongside the Red Army. A fact you would like to forget of course. Why forget ? You are making presumption and jumping to conclusions..... It means nothing ! Most of those Poles would do almost everything to get away from Soviet Russia and I don't blame them!Do you? And once they were back in Poland and had weapons, what was their excuse then? Why didn’t they turn on the Red Army and fight for Poland? Ironside: I'm not whining I'm expressing my opinion on the subject!:) You are whining and lying. Ironside: Britain should support Polish Government in London as only legal representation of independent Poland. No need to invade anybody. Some honor and consideration would had been enough! Why are you whining about what the British did? In your own phrase ‘circumstances had changed’. Poles couldn’t be arsed to fight for a free Poland, why should Brits have given a **** if Poland was free or not?

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Jul 9, 09, 17:05 / #
Harry: Let's start with the letter. Tony Blair expressed nothing. FWIW I have been promised a scan of Tony Blair's original written reply to Michael Moszynski in a couple of days; so that should be definitve on this point. I didn't know this but, the author Frederick Forsyth, CBE, Lord Litchfield and HRH Prince Philip, Duke of Edinburgh were all instrumental in supporting Moszynski and putting pressure on Blair's government to allow Polish veterans to lead the parade.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Jul 10, 09, 14:16 / #
sjam: FWIW I have been promised a scan of Tony Blair's original written reply to Michael Moszynski in a couple of days; so that should be definitve on this point. Good luck with that. Tony Blair did not write to Michael Moszynski! As can be seen by reading the letter, a scan of which is available here: http://www.polandinexile.com/vp4.htm Moszynski has been lying about that letter for years. Look at the press release he put out As a private citizen he [Moszynski] managed to secure an apology from Tony Blair regarding the British Government's failure to invite the Polish armed forces to the 1946 Victory Parade. Link Then compare it to the actual text of the letter "We very much regret that Polish contingents did not take part in the victory parade." He also claims in his press release "Yet only six years later the Poles, who were so instrumental to the allied war effort (including The Battle of Britain; Monte Casino; Falaise Gap, Normandy; Warsaw Uprising), were forgotten. Those brave Polish servicemen, unlike every other nation fighting under Allied Command, were not invited to participate in the Victory Parade due to pressure from Stalin on the British Labour Government." Two lies for the price of one!

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Jul 10, 09, 14:55 / #
Harry: Good luck with that. Tony Blair did not write to Michael Moszynski! You are absolutley right—I now have a scan of the original letter (not through Michael Moszynski though) the letter was not written by Blair but his private secretary and is the same as that on the link. How disappointing. Maybe when I look at the Cabinet office and Foreign office papers at the National Archives there may be something of interest.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Jul 8, 09, 12:15 / #
SeanBM: I understand that Judaism is an important part of Jewish culture but I thought you could be a Jew by birth and by culture but not by religion? I wouldn't say that it is possible to be Jewish without being a Jew: one requires the other.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,726 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Edited by: SeanBM Jul 8, 09, 12:27 / #
Harry: You are confusing religion with nationality. Of course it is not possible to be a Jew and not Jewish. However it is possible to be Polish and not a Catholic, only a complete moron or an utter bigot would claim otherwise. Harry: I wouldn't say that it is possible to be Jewish without being a Jew: one requires the other. I thought you meant A member of the Jewish faith. I think it is possible to be a Jewish Jew (because there is no other kind?) but not being a member of the Jewish faith?.(which you do not have to be a Jew to be)?. That's why I edited.

IronsideThreads: 59 Posts: 6,778 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Jul 8, 09, 23:37 / #
Harry: Why are you whining about what the British did? In your own phrase ‘circumstances had changed’. Poles couldn’t be arsed to fight for a free Poland, why should Brits have given a **** if Poland was free or not? I don't care about British, I ask you why you slandering Poles and defending British for backstabbing allies ? Even if we assume that it was exactly the same situation.... Harry: I believe interbellum Polish school, court and prison records. The simple fact is that Bierut spent at least 50 of his 64 years in Poland and was a citizen of interbellum Poland. Do you think it was difficult to fake it for someone who hold all cards? Do you know that soviet Bierut and Bierut were the same person? Are you willing to bet your life on it? Harry: And once they were back in Poland and had weapons, what was their excuse then? Why didn’t they turn on the Red Army and fight for Poland? Have you heard about 33rd regiment ? And whats your ? whats your parents ? Why didn't you jump on parachute to soviet Poland and fight communist ? Because you are communist yourself? Harry: You are whining and lying. or because you are lying coward and prick without first clue about communism and police state? Harry: Please provide sources stating that Stalin handpicked the Polish provisional government. What sources and for what is well known fact that nothing happened in Soviet control zone without Stalin decision.

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09	Jul 9, 09, 05:11 / #
Ironside: I ask you why you slandering Poles and defending British for backstabbing allies ? Even if we assume that it was exactly the same situation.... Because you did. Should we keep silence just because you don't like the truth? What are talking about? Britain declared the war on Germany right away. Nobody stabbed you in the back.

sjamThreads: 5 Posts: 1,016 Joined: Jan 13, 09	Jul 9, 09, 09:08 / #
Ironside: Do you know that soviet Bierut and Bierut were the same person? How can anyone know—everything was (and is) controlled and falsified by the Jewish-Bolshevik world conspiracy... the Jewish-Bolsheviks even invented the internet so they can keep track on everything we are saying and thinking :-)))

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,737 Joined: Sep 23, 08	Jul 9, 09, 09:37 / #
z_darius: From Financial Times (2005): For the Poles and their military standards will be present for the first time in a British victory parade. Even though Poland made one of the largest contributions to the Allied war effort and there were thousands of Polish troops stationed in the UK at the time, the country was excluded from the original London celebration in 1946 Officials said the invitation was issued in April, after months of planning. The ground was laid two years ago when Mr Blair formally expressed regret to Poland for the 1946 parade snub. Good find. Just so there is no mistake. Harry: Poles couldn’t be arsed to fight for a free Poland, why should Brits have given a **** if Poland was free or not? I don't think this quote needs any comment. Statements like these are even expected from Harry.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Jul 9, 09, 09:48 / #
Ironside: I don't care about British, I ask you why you slandering Poles and defending British for backstabbing allies ? As I have asked you several times before: please detail the exact way in which the British stabbed Poland in the back. Please quote the parts of the relevant treaty which Britain did not observe. Ironside: Do you think it was difficult to fake it for someone who hold all cards? I’d be fairly impressed if they could fake Polish newspapers of the time. You seem to forget that if Bierut had not been locked up by the Polish government at the time, he would have shared the fate of the rest of the Polish communist party: i.e. a bullet in the head or a slower death in the gulags. Ironside: Do you know that soviet Bierut and Bierut were the same person? Are you willing to bet your life on it? As you wish to suggest that they were not, perhaps you could provide us with some sources confirming your stance. Ironside: Have you heard about 33rd regiment ? Yes. They were a British signals unit and were disbanded this year. Ironside: And whats your ? whats your parents ? This is gibberish even by your standards. Ironside: Why didn't you jump on parachute to soviet Poland and fight communist ? Because you are communist yourself? or because you are lying coward and prick without first clue about communism and police state? Actually it was because at the time Poland was communist ruled, I had no interest at all in Poland: I was busy at school. Ironside: What sources and for what is well known fact that nothing happened in Soviet control zone without Stalin As it is so well know, you will have no problems in providing multiple sources stating that Stalin handpicked the entire provisional government. I look forward to reading them.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Jul 9, 09, 10:03 / #
1jola: z_darius: From Financial Times (2005): For the Poles and their military standards will be present for the first time in a British victory parade. Even though Poland made one of the largest contributions to the Allied war effort and there were thousands of Polish troops stationed in the UK at the time, the country was excluded from the original London celebration in 1946 Officials said the invitation was issued in April, after months of planning. The ground was laid two years ago when Mr Blair formally expressed regret to Poland for the 1946 parade snub. Good find. Just so there is no mistake. Well it would be a good find if the story had any kind of basis in reality. Let's start with the letter. Tony Blair expressed nothing. A Downing Street secretary called Matthew Rycroft expressed regret. And he did not express regret for the 1946 parade snub. His exact words were "We very much regret that Polish contingents did not take part in the victory parade". Read the letter for yourself http://www.polandinexile.com/vp4.htm Then let's check why Poles did not take part in the 1946 parade. According to the Financial times of 2005, it was because the nation was excluded. Could that because the lazy journo was simply rewriting a press release (found at polandinexile.com/vp2.htm) without bothering to check the historical facts? Well, Poland is certainly listed in the official program of the victory celebrations as a nation which will take part. According to a certain General Anders and The Times newspaper of June 1946, western command Poles refused to attend despite being invited. As to why the official government of Poland didn't send representatives, we'll never know that. All we do know is that they were invited. 1jola: I don't think this quote needs any comment. Statements like these are even expected from Harry. Would you like us to discuss why you didn't fight for Poland? And please don't try to tell us that standing ready to fight for your new nation by murdering Polish civilians was fighting for Poland.