Poland among the greatest enemies of Russia

Sasha:

My guess is that Politkovkaja was killed because she'd stuck her nose too far in Kadyrov's business. She has never been that harmful for the government and putin himself, yet putin was aware of that she was to be taken out of the way and she finally was killed by Kadyrov's people under his protection and with his connivance.

In February 2007 Kadyrov replaced Alu Alkhanov as President, shortly after he had turned 30, which is the minimum age for the post. He has the support of former Russian President Vladimir Putin and was awarded the Hero of Russia medal, the highest honorary title of Russia

On 15 February 2007, Putin signed a decree removing Alkhanov and instating Kadyrov as Chechen's acting president.

Ramzan Kadyrov is an honorary member of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences

Anna Politkovskaya, a veteran Russian reporter (murdered in 2006; case unsolved as of April 2009)

I've already killed who I should have killed. And I will kill all of those standing behind them, as long as I myself am not killed or jailed. I will be killing as long as I live... Putin is a beauty. He thinks more about Chechnya than about any other republic. When my father was murdered, he [Putin] personally came down and went to the cemetery. Putin stopped the war. Putin should be made president for life. Strong rule is needed. Democracy is an American invention... Russians never obey their laws. Everyone stole, and only Khodorkovsky is in jail.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Aug 4, 09, 21:37 / #
Pan Kazimierz: Too bad, life sucks. Then you cut your own throat.

Pan KazimierzThreads: 2 Posts: 276 Joined: Jul 4, 09	Edited by: Pan Kazimierz Aug 5, 09, 11:15 / #
joepilsudski: Then you cut your own throat. Why would I do that? That sounds like a silly thing to do... almost as silly as imagining a world where international relations can be based around putting aside all one's differences, ambitions, identity and desires to focus on one common ground instead. Sounds nice, sure, but let's focus on things that work... any real solution, no matter how flawed, is better than an imaginary one, no matter how perfect, imo.

madpsychocatThreads: - Posts: 15 Joined: Jul 30, 09	Aug 5, 09, 11:37 / #
lesser: I'm not in favour of free movement of labour with Russia. Significant part of Russian citizens consist from people civilizationally alien to us. They would have serious problems with assimilation living most likely in ethnic ghettoes. Reasonable immigration policy must contain some degree of discrimination in such cases. This is what Western Europe people were saying when Central Europe joined the EC! But it wasn't so bad... Although I agree Russia is a bit different.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Aug 5, 09, 19:50 / #
Poland and Russia should be strategic partners

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Aug 5, 09, 19:55 / #
Crow: Poland and Russia should be strategic partners Quite right, and it will require adjustments from both sides.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Aug 5, 09, 20:57 / #
joepilsudski: it will require adjustments from both sides agree

Pan KazimierzThreads: 2 Posts: 276 Joined: Jul 4, 09	Aug 6, 09, 11:44 / #
Crow: Poland and Russia should be strategic partners Yeah... because, y'know, that's worked so well in the past.

jwojcieThreads: 3 Posts: 816 Joined: Jan 3, 09	Edited by: jwojcie Aug 6, 09, 12:18 / #
joepilsudski: Poland and Russia should be strategic partners Poland is to small to be a partner for Russia... and Russia is to imperial and autocratic to pretend that this is not the case. Size matters :-) Russian autocratic system prevents regionalisation of Russia, and stops social cooperation with neighbours. There is no true cooperation between countries without regions cooperation. That is how and why EU works. And that is why CIS doesn't. I'm 100% sure that if Russia would let Kaliningrad district to act more freely then cooperation with Polish Warmian-Masurian district would bring to both Poles and Russians in that region more tourists, more jobs, more wealth. But from Moscow far far away view it is to small issue... That is the problem, everything except gas and military is to small issue for Moscow.

Pan KazimierzThreads: 2 Posts: 276 Joined: Jul 4, 09	Aug 6, 09, 13:01 / #
jwojcie: Size matters Yeah, right, tell it to Canada. =p

jwojcieThreads: 3 Posts: 816 Joined: Jan 3, 09	Aug 6, 09, 13:41 / #
Pan Kazimierz: jwojcie: Size matters Yeah, right, tell it to Canada. =p Canada is small in terms of population... Even smaller than Poland.

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08	Aug 6, 09, 21:02 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Sasha? Is there an english language russian forum you could recommend? pravda.ru is full of nutters as far as I could see...:( Now spell it out is this site b e t t e r or w o r s e then pravda.ru (wich means truth.ru)

vetalaThreads: - Posts: 512 Joined: Jul 10, 09	Aug 6, 09, 21:31 / #
You know BB I always wondered what are you doing here in the first place? You, Harry and Yehudi are the biggest mysteries in my life.

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09	Aug 6, 09, 21:40 / #
vetala: You know BB I always wondered what are you doing here in the first place? You, Harry and Yehudi are the biggest mysteries in my life. he provides balance to PF:). It is a public forum and I am happy to have people form different parts. Healthy perhaps:)??

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Aug 6, 09, 21:42 / #
vetala: You know BB I always wondered what are you doing here in the first place? Poles like to talk about Germany...without any German around it would become boring for them, don't you think??? Theyneedme :)

Pan KazimierzThreads: 2 Posts: 276 Joined: Jul 4, 09	Aug 6, 09, 13:44 / #
jwojcie: Canada is small in terms of population... Even smaller than Poland. Possibly related to how 80% of them live within 120 miles of the US border...

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Aug 6, 09, 21:26 / #
IPF

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Aug 7, 09, 06:51 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Sasha? Is there an english language russian forum you could recommend? pravda.ru is full of nutters as far as I could see...:( Hej, BB! Sorry for being late... I didn't see that message. However I'm afraid I can't help you much. Generally I attend forums if they provide me with opportunity of both: learning something about a folk I'm interested in, its culture, people's turn of mind etc and practicing a language I don't want to lose. The PF gives me that chance although I'm now experiencing a period while I find the forum rather yawnful. As for the Russian forums I do not attend them at all but I can look for some... Here is Russia.com forum. It seems to be pretty big board, yet I'm not sure you'll find there any sober persons. If I accidentally happen to run onto some Russian board I find readable, I'll let you know. Sokrates: Of course but if they get too uppity the goverment pulls Politkovskaya, and they're still a minority. My guess is that Politkovkaja was killed because she'd stuck her nose too far in Kadyrov's business. She has never been that harmful for the government and putin himself, yet putin was aware of that she was to be taken out of the way and she finally was killed by Kadyrov's people under his protection and with his connivance. They're in minority everywhere. I may only share the point that they're being killed in Russia far more often. Sokrates: Sasha the problem with "prawda" audience is that it represents the majority, of course there's some objective people in Russia, but voices defending human rights and freedoms are few and far between. As I already said friendly, open-minded people were in minority everywhere. Sokrates: you cannot keep a complete censorship and have internet and cell phones at the same time but for the most part the country is being ruled by mafia and former KGB, people are being fed rubbish from all directions. They think they can. lol I'm not sure if heard about that but they're gonna ban skype as it can't be tracked. Sokrates: The problem with Russia is its history and upbringing, the country and the nation had a history of ruthless bullying and exploitation both abroad and towards its own people, todays Russians are for better or worse children of this infexible, cruel regime, its not just a question of communism but also of the Tsars. Of course there's ethical, moral people in Russia who want a better life and a better future for their nation but they're individuals typically devoured by the masses Different nations have their own, different weak spots and skeletons in closets.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Aug 7, 09, 07:19 / #
Pan Kazimierz: Yeah... because, y'know, that's worked so well in the past don`t be ironic you very well know that you need each others take this plastic example > Would you rather suggest Oba Ma`s daughter to be wife of your son or maybe Putin`s daughter?

Pan KazimierzThreads: 2 Posts: 276 Joined: Jul 4, 09	Aug 7, 09, 10:56 / #
Crow: don`t be ironic you very well know that you need each others For now. And then, in a few decades, oil's going to be useless anyway and either we're all f*ked or we have us an alternate energy solution that doesn't require Russia pumping anything into the rest of Europe. Though I guess I still can't see that Russia, on the other hand, really needs Poland for much of anything. Crow: take this plastic example > Would you rather suggest Oba Ma`s daughter to be wife of your son or maybe Putin`s daughter? Well, the obvious answer is that I don't have a son. Barring that, and saying that I have a hypothetical son, I'd have to look at a number of factors: age (of hypothetical son), education and intelligence (of daughters), looks, etc. Right now, given that the choice were a real one, I'd probably be leaning towards Obama's daughter. Of course, his celebrity status is already a shadow of what it once was, so I don't know how long I'd make that choice - once he leaves the limelight, the benefit to Poland and my own family will all but disappear since nobody will any longer care how ('that guy who everybody thought he'd be the greatest president ever but oh man now they feel dumb')'s daughter married a Polak. Though I'd wager that Putin's daughter is probably more intelligent (Putin genes), and better educated (Russian schooling > American schooling, by oh-so-much). But, then again, who wants to have that associated with their family?

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08	Aug 8, 09, 10:44 / #
aphrodisiac: he provides balance to PF:). It is a public forum and I am happy to have people form different parts. Healthy perhaps:)?? Bratwurst Boy: Poles like to talk about Germany...without any German around it would become boring for them, don't you think??? Theyneedme :) SO TRUE!! :D and I really mean it I am not sarcastic The German-Polish relationship is uniqe! Like Stalin once said, if there were no Poles left on this earth I would be bored to death.

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09	Edited by: Nathan Aug 10, 09, 05:30 / #
Sasha: My guess is that Politkovkaja was killed because she'd stuck her nose too far in Kadyrov's business. She has never been that harmful for the government and putin himself, yet putin was aware of that she was to be taken out of the way and she finally was killed by Kadyrov's people under his protection and with his connivance. In February 2007 Kadyrov replaced Alu Alkhanov as President, shortly after he had turned 30, which is the minimum age for the post. He has the support of former Russian President Vladimir Putin and was awarded the Hero of Russia medal, the highest honorary title of Russia . On 15 February 2007, Putin signed a decree removing Alkhanov and instating Kadyrov as Chechen's acting president. Ramzan Kadyrov is an honorary member of the Russian Academy of Natural Sciences Anna Politkovskaya, a veteran Russian reporter (murdered in 2006; case unsolved as of April 2009) I've already killed who I should have killed. And I will kill all of those standing behind them, as long as I myself am not killed or jailed. I will be killing as long as I live... Putin is a beauty. He thinks more about Chechnya than about any other republic. When my father was murdered, he [Putin] personally came down and went to the cemetery. Putin stopped the war. Putin should be made president for life. Strong rule is needed. Democracy is an American invention... Russians never obey their laws. Everyone stole, and only Khodorkovsky is in jail. Quite a tandem. I have read some Anna Politkovskaya's books. Putin is primarily the main "hero" of her documentaries. She had also some proof of Kadyrov's killings and human rights abuse. As I read again, Sasha, what you wrote, I see you don't argue about Putin's involvement in her murder, correct? Anna was murdered just 3 months before Putin instated Kadyrov as a Chechen's president as you can see from the quotes.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Aug 10, 09, 09:35 / #
Nathan: Quite a tandem. Exactly. It's like "claw me and I'll claw thee". Nathan: She had also some proof of Kadyrov's killings and human rights abuse And that's why I think she was put out of the way.

caprice49Threads: 4 Posts: 288 Joined: Aug 5, 09	Aug 10, 09, 16:57 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Poles like to talk about Germany...without any German around it would become boring for them, don't you think??? Theyneedme :) Bratwurst Boy It looks like the Germans like talking about the Poles. Perhaps the Poles' preoccupation is Rokossovsky's army holidaying on the Vistula embankment for 63days and then claiming victory.

sloThreads: 2 Posts: 85 Joined: Nov 26, 07	Aug 16, 09, 07:07 / #
Actually, your government wants Serbia to join the EU, so we will be there together one day - Poland, Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Bulgaria and in the future if all goes well, Serbia, Croatia, Macedonia, Montenegro and Ukraine. It's as close to Slavic Union as we can realistically get. I share this point. Realistic point finally.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Aug 16, 09, 12:58 / #
slo: I share this point. Realistic point finally. but, Serbian resistance and example gave one great IF to the process. So, one day all Slavs have quite realistic argumant to say- ``EU oppresing Slavs and even forced them to forcible EU membership. Fu** EU!`` who knows, maybe one day (when failure of EU becomes obvious), that what happened on Balkan to Balkan Serbs could be crucial argumantation in Poland`s claims on Lusatian Serbian territories of eastern Germany and then even to Polish aspirations on Balkan thru reason- bringing liberty to Balkan Serbs from Germano-Turkish oppresion. After all, Serbs calling and desire Polish, not German-Turkish influence here in the region.