Poland Charges 7 in Afghan Killings

Warsaw - Seven Polish soldiers are accused of having killed six Afghan civilians, including women and children, a spokesman for Poland's public prosecutor said Wednesday.

CIA: "Christians In Action" 'missionaries' reportedly involved in Afghan heroin smuggling under Porter Goss's direction.

February 13, 2006 -- Goss's "Contraband Import Agency" (CIA) and its "program." WMR reported on Feb. 10

CIA under the command of Porter Goss is back into the drug smuggling business in Afghanistan. Russian Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov told a meeting of the Russian-NATO Council that "drugs and arms smuggling are booming and 'dirty cash flows' keep feeding extremist and radicalism in Afghanistan."

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Edited by: plk123 Nov 14, 07, 16:20 / #
WARSAW, Poland -- Prosecutors charged six Polish soldiers Wednesday with murder and violating international law in the deaths of several civilians in an allegedly unprovoked attack in Afghanistan. miamiherald.com/news/world/AP/story/307850.html eat your damn words avjoe.. haha

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Nov 14, 07, 16:39 / #
Prosecutors said on Wednesday they had charged seven Polish soldiers over the shooting to death of six Afghan civilians. Prosecutor Karol Frankowski said the killings, which took place in August, were not accidental and did not happen in response to any life endangering situation. well that aint right

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Nov 14, 07, 16:45 / #
The prosecutor said this and that. Already they seem to be guilty. Why don't we wait for the defence to speak ?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Nov 14, 07, 16:47 / #
isn't one presumed guilty until proven innocent in PL?

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Edited by: Grzegorz_ Nov 14, 07, 16:48 / #
If government don't give any legal protection to soldiers in such cases then soon we will probably have a problem finding people willing to go to Afghanistan or Iraq.

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Nov 14, 07, 16:50 / #
Quoting: plk123 isn't one presumed guilty until proven innocent in PL? No

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Edited by: plk123 Nov 14, 07, 16:52 / #
Quoting: Wroclaw No what do you mean? Quoting: Grzegorz_ If government don't give any legal protection to soldiers in such cases then soon we will probably have a problem findind people willing to go to Afghanistan or Iraq. people? no.. cold blooded killers, i sure hope they won't volunteer anymore.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Edited by: BubbaWoo Nov 14, 07, 16:53 / #
is there any doubt that the attack took place and that the soldiers charged we responsible for it? the question seems to be if it was in response to aggression or not

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Nov 14, 07, 16:54 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ we will probably have a problem findind people willing to go to Afghanistan or Iraq. :))) would be great

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Nov 14, 07, 16:54 / #
Quoting: plk123 cold blooded killers What ?

randompalThreads: 7 Posts: 431 Joined: Jul 10, 07	Nov 14, 07, 17:01 / #
why is everyone so surprised this happened? they are in a country that has known nothing but lawlessness, the British and the Russians tried to "civilize" it and both failed, and now Polish troops are there playing Rambo in someone else's war where there is no conventional enemy, or more to the point-the enemy is indistinguishible from the civilians...so the boys panicked and got trigger-happy.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Nov 14, 07, 17:09 / #
Quoting: randompal so the boys panicked and got trigger-happy. given that a colleague was killed in the village shortly before the alleged attack it sounds more like pre-meditated revenge rather than panicky trigger fingers...

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Nov 14, 07, 17:25 / #
Quoting: plk123 cold blooded killers who have been charged with murder.. Not everyone who is charged with a crime is found guilty. It might be wise to hear the evidence before pronouncing judgement. An example of jumping straight in with opinions would be the 'terrorist' Menezes, who in fact turned out to be innocent.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Nov 14, 07, 17:49 / #
that's ok, you'll eat crow when they are found guilty. with the BS you say about this you must be ok with the way germans conducted their operations in WW2.. look up Nuremberg trials sometime and then maybe we can talk.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Nov 14, 07, 16:56 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ If government don't give any legal protection to soldiers in such cases then soon we will probably have a problem finding people willing to go to Afghanistan or Iraq. so soldiers shouldnt be prosecuted for suspected war crimes

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Nov 14, 07, 16:57 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ What ? It is revange for what I've said about USA ...

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Nov 14, 07, 16:58 / #
Quoting: plk123 what do you mean? You asked a question and I answered it. Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Nov 14, 07, 17:02 / #
Quoting: BubbaWoo so soldiers shouldnt be prosecuted for suspected war crimes Unless It is proven that they were planning to kill unarmed people then they shouldn't be punished in any way.

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Nov 14, 07, 17:06 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ Unless It is proven that they were planning to kill unarmed people then they shouldn't be punished in any way i would imagine guilt or innocence will be determined during the prosecution and they will be punished, or not, accordingly... thats seems to be the normal way forward...

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Nov 14, 07, 17:07 / #
Quoting: Wroclaw Innocent until proven guilty in a court of law. on the face that seems to be the case now.. but is it the reality? judged by your peers?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Edited by: plk123 Nov 14, 07, 17:10 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_ What ? what do you mean by 'what?' cold blooded killers who have been charged with murder.. as should be. polish or any other army doesn't need those kinds of volunteers. 'k?

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Nov 14, 07, 17:19 / #
Quoting: plk123 but is it the reality? judged by your peers? I'm not sure how the courts work here.

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Nov 14, 07, 17:31 / #
Quoting: plk123 cold blooded killers How the hell do you know It ? You were there ? A fact that they were serving in Afghanistan until the end of the shift and arrested only a month after came back to Poland means that there is no strong evidences of any serious crime.

AvJoeUK	Edited by: AvJoeUK Nov 14, 07, 17:33 / #
Quoting: plk123 eat your damn words avjoe.. haha Why? Oh it musta been the Whole Polish Army Involved, wow how pathetic... If they are found guilty they will see justice, as would anyone charged with murder. you FAIL

BubbaWooThreads: 46 Posts: 4,438 Joined: Sep 26, 06	Nov 14, 07, 18:07 / #
if these soldiers are guilty they will not be the first to have committed war crimes in this conflict

AvJoeUK	Edited by: AvJoeUK Nov 15, 07, 04:52 / #
Quoting: plk123 that's ok, you'll eat crow when they are found guilty. If their found guilty their found guilty, Ive never denied the fact warcrimes have occured infact I acknowledged the fact they have and support the use of justice to administer suitable punishments for those involved. However your frame of thinking shows that you generally think every enlisted soldier is a murdering brute. That said if Poland was attacked tomorrow you wouldnt hesistate you stand cowering behind these very men and women you seem contempt on labelling with the same misguided and misinformed brush. Oh and I think I know quite enough about Nuremberg Trials to not put Nazi's and current serving soldiers in the same catergory...Im done talking with you anyway, its hard to educate someone so narrowminded and misguided.

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Nov 17, 07, 13:52 / #
Quoting: AvJoeUK Oh and I think I know quite enough about Nuremberg Trials to not put Nazi's and current serving soldiers in the same catergory... If they commit the same crimes why not? Every armed force has its psycho's,its just the nature of the beast of war,how else do you think you get vollunteers for dangerous misions,or indead snipers( come on,one job,blow peoples brains out...who but the slightly touched applies for that?) , the vast majority of soldiers are not psycho's though and should not be tarred with the same brush. Does it matter if the people doing the murdering are USMC ,WP or Blackwater,they should all hopefully rot in hell and share some of the blame for fuelling the levels of aggresion and retrebution against the rest of the armed forces that are trying to carry out very difficult jobs in the most humane way possible.

ho-hum	Nov 17, 07, 14:39 / #
I like the phrase "war crime". It inherently creates the impression that wars are noble and fought along rules, like a jolly good game of cricket. Whilst perhaps it would be a truism to say that "war is a crime", in itself. So these poor polish grunts, lowest ranked squadies are there to be used if they die or live is irrelevant to the high command, they are expendable. Now you don't have to loose a limb or your life to gunfire, you can just as easily get shafted by your own. These boys are a sleight of hand by the government and media, expendable scapegoats. One wonders what truely horrific tales of woe are being cloaked by this realitively minor incursion.

ho-hum	Nov 17, 07, 15:18 / #
Afganistan provideds the world with the spectacle of a place as hospital as the moon, with matching terrain, which the "united forces of the Lightside" can combat the "Luddite fanatics of jihad". Meanwhile heroin production grows year on year and the price is pushed lower and more addicts are insnared in the West. It was once quoted the J.Edgar Hoover suggested flooding the ghetto in the states with smack, thus quelling the civil rights and black conciousness movement, inject criminality into their hopes. Now it could be argued that this modus operandi has been mirrored across the West. And the principles of divide and rule and subdue and quell are being competently enacted. Meanwhile the UK forces provide a logistical courier service far superior to DHL, one whom can protect and fly directly into the UK and other allied bases through out Europe. As they say, "just because your paranoid doesn't mean they aren't out to get you."

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Nov 18, 07, 04:22 / #
more on this... Polish soldiers accused of killing Afghan civilians news.monstersandcritics.com/southasia/news/article_1373709.php/Polish_ soldiers_accused_of_killing_Afghan_civil Nov 14, 2007, 15:47 GMT Warsaw - Seven Polish soldiers are accused of having killed six Afghan civilians, including women and children, a spokesman for Poland's public prosecutor said Wednesday. Now, those who were just wounded, some Afghan women or so, are now being hospitalized in Poland for Polish money. Somehow i doubt its even true, its stinky, probably some Brit or American shot them and they blamed someone else. Considering that Poles are Slavs and considering that USA and Britain would like to deeply involve Poland in all their schemes. This could be interesting for Polish public, considering that Poles pay taxes for Polish army which serve to American (who knows which) interests in Afganistan... CIA-Contractor Christian Aviation Missionaries Smuggling Afghan Heroin portland.indymedia.org/en/2006/02/333982.shtml CIA: "Christians In Action" 'missionaries' reportedly involved in Afghan heroin smuggling under Porter Goss's direction. February 13, 2006 -- Goss's "Contraband Import Agency" (CIA) and its "program." WMR reported on Feb. 10 CIA under the command of Porter Goss is back into the drug smuggling business in Afghanistan. Russian Deputy Prime Minister Sergei Ivanov told a meeting of the Russian-NATO Council that "drugs and arms smuggling are booming and 'dirty cash flows' keep feeding extremist and radicalism in Afghanistan." This is why Serbia choosing neutrality on current military alliances. NATO is dangerous adventure