Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored?

Germany is not going to stay where and how it is, its going to fall on its face

Huh? Why?

....oh but since we are together in the EU we can hope that you will bail us out should the need arise, ja? :)

Because you're going to lose between 15 and 20 milion people and have over a 40% of your society above 50, this means you're going to have only 1/3 of people actually working and generating revenue which is directly tied to wealth.

Very good point! Maybe we will see a competition for Europe's young people in the future.

You forget efficiency and technological advancement Sokrates....

Shrinking of populations isn't the problem as more and more machines and computers help out

the discrepancy between old and young is a problem.

Are you really believing in a kind of a breeding war? We can't expand endlessly...

But also this isn't dramatic to "fall on the face" :)

Russia for example has so much more people, would you call them superior to Germany because of this?

No i dont but they're a non-factor, its hard facts and numbers, if you have less people working you have less money, if you have even more people you need to support you have even less

I have less people to pay and to feed too! ;)

Especially if there are more retirees than workers, machines become more important...and we have them! :)

were you wandering there again Sok?

That is all wishful thinking and has nothing to do with reality!

So now we're into science-fiction realm?

A post-industrial society is a society in which an economic transition has occurred from a manufacturing based economy to a service based economy, a diffusion of national and global capital, and mass privatization. The prerequisites to this economic shift are the processes of industrialization and liberalization.
This economic transition spurs a restructuring in society as a whole.[1]

Examples of post-industrial societies include the United States, Canada, Japan, and Western Europe.
The "post-industrial" period did not begin until during or after World War II, according to most sociologists: "Western sociologists usually maintain that the basis of the post-industrial society began to be formed in the late 1950s and that the process has been gaining ground ever since."[6]

You know rock....substitution of Europeans by Turks is so NOT an alternative!

Yes, a change for our societies....but it isn't the first and it won't be the last...nothing to be afraid of or a reason to wring hands and see only darkness! :)

Which in this case means raising the age limit to which you have to work but thats a short term solution, that said UN prognosis is rubbish.

We have to adapt...find new rules and laws....but transitions are never easy!

But as I said...we as peoples had definitely worse things to overcome.

You know rock....substitution of Europeans by Turks is so NOT an alternative!
Why don't you breed elsewhere? But who knows...you might develop into an advanced country maybe sometimes too...then you will face the same developments.

Masses of children is the sign of a poor, uneducated, undeveloped society....you have not much else to offer but children!

Just some more info about our european future:

How do you adapt to people being too old to work? (Thats a problem for Poland too, to a lesser extent but still).

More dramatic? Yes, worse? No.

...A country must develop, as much as possible, a strong independent economy, not subject to the whims of bankers and multi-nationals and their 'strategies'

If Germany wasn't tied into the EU mechanism, and was freed from the restraints of the aftermath of WWII, the sky is the limit...But the powers that be do not want this.

Ooooh....Joe, you couldn't be more wrong! :)
The EU was always good for Germany. It's our economical "backyard" if you so want.
It's our market....it's much easier to sell here our products than elsewhere...the EU makes it possible, one currency...streamlined laws and procedures...continent wide trade was never so easy! :)

And not only for Germany, every trader nation will tell you the same. Would we be so successfull alone outside? Doubt it..

So, you feel Germany does well with the EU system?

But here I think the EU should become much more pro-European! Plants should move only inside, between the EU members, immigration only between EU-countries etc...
I think we should help first our economically weaker EU-member states instead of some godforsaken hell in Africa etc.
We need to set priorities - and these should be European!

Very good point...Now, what is the trade relationship between Poland and Germany?...Is it a case of using cheap Polish labor, or would/does Germany invest in building the Polish economy?...Certainly, Poland and Germany should be good neighbors, since they are next door to each other...Are there Polish businessmen who would like some German expertise, and does the Polish government encourage this?

Economic relations

The Polish economy has successfully withstood the global economic crisis. For example, Poland was the only EU country to record positive GDP growth this year (1st quarter of 2009: plus 1.9 per cent; 2nd quarter: plus 1.1 per cent).

Since Poland joined the EU in 2004, German-Polish trade has gained momentum. For many years, Germany has been Poland’s most important trading partner by far, and Poland is becoming increasingly important for the German economy as its principal business partner in Central and Eastern Europe, ranking an impressive eleventh in 2008.

Even in 2008, a year increasingly overshadowed by the international financial and economic crisis, bilateral trade still grew by 10 per cent, to EUR 66.3 billion, according to Federal Statistical Office figures.

The principal German exports are machinery and electrical goods, plant, motor vehicles, chemical and plastic products. Poland’s main exports to Germany are machinery, vehicles, household appliances, (white goods and television sets), chemical products, food and furniture.

In terms of both the number of investors and the total amount invested, Germany is probably the leading supplier of foreign capital to Poland. Since Poland’s change of political system in 1989/1990, German direct investments of at least EUR one million in the country have been worth some EUR 19 billion (including EUR 2.8 billion in 2007). On top of this are the investments by small and medium-sized companies, especially in the border region, which do not appear in statistics. Most German investments are greenfield investments, only a small portion being made through takeovers or in connection with the privatization of state-owned enterprises. German companies are also investing increasingly in technologically advanced manufacturing and services and are expanding their research and development activities in Poland.

Major German investments in Poland focus on the automotive and mechanical engineering industries, the chemical and pharmaceutical industries, banking and insurance, the wholesale and retail trade as well as the energy sector. Also of increasing importance is business process outsourcing, e.g. in the IT sector.

Poland’s accession to the Schengen area, with the abolition of passport controls at the German-Polish border on 21 December 2007, has further facilitated cross-border cooperation.

(Germany is already the biggest investor in Poland I believe)

This should answer your questions (web site is a bit slow):

I think the more and the sooner Poland catches up to the "oldies" the more it will become a mutual interchange...I don't see anything what should keep that from happening

Of course, our German friends are very important for us too, but we need to keep
France closer in case some pre-emptive strike is needed in the future ;)

Well....that would put the damper on all of our merging plans...:(

...but we need to keep France closer in case some pre-emptive strike is needed in the future

Hey! I didn't mean pre-emptive strike against Germany