Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored?

GermanMan:

I can only invite you to come to Germany and talk with the ppl. about that "great historical event in 1989" - you may get one big yaaaawwn.
Arcandor, Daimler, Deutsche Bank: those things are in the focus of the ppl.and the economic development - nearly nothing else.
I repeat: Nearly nobody cares about history here in Western Europe.

Wroclaw Boy:

Within 4 posts you appear to have nailed so many important issues, and are trying to pass your knowledge onto others. Some may be accurate but many are nothing other than German fantasies and opinions probably shared by people from your culture not on the ground actual observations.
For me at the moment you come accross as a polotician rallying some kind of anti- establishment cause.

GermanManThreads: - Posts: 7 Joined: Jun 10, 09	Jun 11, 09, 02:48 / #
Well, mate, I don't know what your problem is, but perhaps I will get it at some point. Some more detailed feedback would be greatly appreciated. Let me put in in some simple words: 1.) Germany doesn't give a **** about the re-union 20 years ago. There will be some more or less forced celebrations with some politicians - that's it. I can only invite you to come here and have a look around: nobody cares. Really. And on the other hand we have that funny Polish reaction about a EU video about the fall of the Iron Curtain that REALLY nobody cares about - but Mr. Jan Tombinski. We only had a hand full of newspaper articles about that "so important video" here in Germany. http://www.welt.de/politik/article3761459/EU-Video-zum-Mauerfall-Jubil aeum-erzuernt-die-Polen.html I can only invite you to come to Germany and talk with the ppl. about that "great historical event in 1989" - you may get one big yaaaawwn. Arcandor, Daimler, Deutsche Bank: those things are in the focus of the ppl.and the economic development - nearly nothing else. I repeat: Nearly nobody cares about history here in Western Europe. PS: that bottle of Whiskey sounds like a good idea ;)

Wroclaw Boy	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Jun 11, 09, 02:57 / #
GermanMan: Well, mate, I don't know what your problem is, but perhaps I will get it at some point. Hey Gerry we dont know who youre talking to. Highlight the text youre replying to then hit quote at the bottom and youll find somthing like this: GermanMan: Germany Kurwa Its quite simple you see buddy. GermanMan: I repeat: Nearly nobody cares about history here in Western Europe. STOP with those sweeping generalisations or me and you are going to fall out rather quickly. you get me? Actually forget that threat stick around this will be interesting.

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Jun 11, 09, 03:02 / #
GermanMan: I can only invite you to come to Germany and talk with the ppl. about that "great historical event in 1989" - you may get one big yaaaawwn. Well, I have to admit that's kind of surprising if it's true. The Stasi shouldn't be forgotten so easily.. or Bush for that matter.

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,049 Joined: May 26, 08	Jun 11, 09, 03:23 / #
Wroclaw Boy: come on it couldnt be worse. Obamas the man, you should be proud of him. Why be proud?

Wroclaw Boy	Jun 11, 09, 03:33 / #
Babinich: Wroclaw Boy: come on it couldnt be worse. Obamas the man, you should be proud of him. Why be proud? I think the real question is why not, tell me something Bush stood for which benefited America? and lets have the same questrion for Obama, im not a US citizen and its way past my bed time. Nighty night, sleep tight.

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,049 Joined: May 26, 08	Jun 11, 09, 03:36 / #
Wroclaw Boy: I think the real question is why not, tell me something Bush stood for which benefited America? This is not about GWB; this is about the Tabula Rasa.

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Jun 11, 09, 03:39 / #
Babinich: this is about the Tabula Rasa. What does John Locke have to do with it?

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08	Jun 11, 09, 08:31 / #
GermanMan: I can only invite you to come to Germany and talk with the ppl. about that "great historical event in 1989" - you may get one big yaaaawwn. Arcandor, Daimler, Deutsche Bank: those things are in the focus of the ppl.and the economic development - nearly nothing else. I repeat: Nearly nobody cares about history here in Western Europe. Your opinions are relevant and hold water. Keep up good job. :):):) I can observe the same process taking place in Poland, especially among the youth. They are not interested in history at all, they just want to have good jobs, a lot of cash, nice houses and on top of that, fun in life. I received a great shock in as far as 1990s when I visited a befriended teacher in his school and the school radio broadcast a short programme about Katyń. I looked at those students and was surprised that instead of standing to attention and listening carefully, they continued talking and laughing. The process can`t be stopped and in 20 years` time it will look here like in the West. People`s historic memory will amount to zero. It is already happening, the date of 04.06.1989 (collapse of communism) means nothing not only to students but to 30 year olds as well. History issues, especially those painful ones from the war, are still exploited by certain politicians who use old people`s memory to get votes and power. And by guys fascinated with history, like me. Wroclaw Boy: Within 4 posts you appear to have nailed so many important issues, and are trying to pass your knowledge onto others. Some may be accurate but many are nothing other than German fantasies and opinions probably shared by people from your culture not on the ground actual observations. For me at the moment you come accross as a polotician rallying some kind of anti- establishment cause. I can`t agree with you. GermanMan talks about things which are true. It is really surprising you don`t see it. :):):):)

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Jun 11, 09, 09:42 / #
I need to make only one remark to what GermanMan says. GermanMan: Conclusion: Ignorance is one common state in the EU. Yes, not only in EU but also in US and worldwide. But ignorance may be harmful to Poland. Every month the Polish diplomats have to intervene at newspapers, magazines or TV stations all over the world to make their editors apologise for the nasty expression : Polish death camps. It is obvious that Poles mustn`t stop denouncing such absurdities, you realise why. E.g., A Spanish magazine wrote that the film Pianist is set in "Nazi Poland." After the Polish embassy protested, they changed the description into a Nazi-occupied Poland. Another scandal. An Irish paper, describing a visit of Irish youth to Auschwitz, used the term Polish concentration camps. They apologised and corrected the report. Again libel about Polish gas chambers. Culprits: Daily Telegraph and Sun, both from Britain. and many many more. Read this article which explains the Polish stance on the issue: CNN made to apologize for offending Poles Polish Radio 23.04.2009 The American CNN television station has apologized for using the term "Polish death camps" on the air. In their Tuesday coverage of the March of the Living - an annual commemoration of the German Nazi Holocaust held in Poland, CNN displayed the words "Polish death camps" on the breaking news scroll. As a result of the quick intervention of the Polish embassy in Washington, CNN promised the Polish Foreign Ministry to issue a statement apologizing for the offensive mistake. In the past, the term "Polish concentration camp" was mistakenly used by ABC News, CBS News and the New York Times, as well as by Die Welt and The Guardian. £ukasz Kamiñski, historian of the Institute of National Remembrance says that repeating such untrue and harmful statements can build a false image that it was Poles and not Germans, who were responsible for mass murders in World War Two concentration camps: 'Time passes and the level of public knowledge of World War Two decreases. The more we hear about "Polish death camps" the less we will think about what it really means - if it means they were built in Poland, or by Poles. We must defend the historic truth on this matter with determination. ' As you can see, it seems we are going to deal with historical issues and world`s ignorance for many years from now because Poles can`t leave it like this for obvious reasons.

SwitekThreads: 1 Posts: 66 Joined: May 28, 09	Edited by: Switek Jun 11, 09, 09:57 / #
Easy... Polish Ministry of Foreign Affairs is currently monitoring the "Polish Concentration Camps" lies... http://www.msz.gov.pl/Against,Polish,camps,2076.html

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Edited by: SeanBM Jun 12, 09, 21:56 / #
pawian: You probably connoted the first meaning. yes. I was watching some T.V. from some "religious" channel from the U.S.A. And they were talking about introducing some book about the holocaust in to schools (fine so far), she continued to say how she had even shown it to Polish children and they understood it. How they could change the world .... And it really struck me about the very wrong word acosiation game, the "Polish concentration camps". P.S. I really enjoy your threads about communism in Poland and the rise of solidarity, a well needed reality check in all this madness that is commonly known as PF. But my favourite are your riddle threads :)

Barack Obama	Jun 13, 09, 20:40 / #
Babinich: this is about the Tabula Rasa. What? you calling me the Tabula Rasa? anymore of that and im gonna send in the nukes on your red neck honky ass.

niejestemcapitaThreads: 3 Posts: 666 Joined: Jan 3, 09	Jun 13, 09, 20:46 / #
Barack Obama: im gonna send in the nukes on your red neck honky ass. go go go Obama!!!

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08	Jun 16, 09, 21:56 / #
Polish general in NATO HQ thenews.pl 12.06.2009 Poland will appoint seven generals to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. One of them will be deployed in the NATO headquarters in Norfolk, USA. Poland will have twice as many generals in NATO's structures as a result of the alliance's command reform and recognition of Polish troops who participate in NATO's missions. According to NATO's rules, each member country is allowed to have a certain amount of so-called `stars,' which correspond to the number of generals employed by the alliance. So far, Poland has had four stars but after the command reform it will have seven stars. "In NATO's slang having seven `stars' is synonymous to having a deputy commander in the Allied Command Transformation headquarters in Norfolk. The Polish General will have to share the post with his Italian counterpart, taking turns. Nevertheless, it is a great success for Poland as we have never held such a high office in the NATO," said Defence Minister Bogdan Klich.

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Jun 12, 09, 20:31 / #
pawian: It is obvious that Poles mustn`t stop denouncing such absurdities, you realise why. Nonsense, this is battle with the wind.

Wroclaw Boy	Jun 12, 09, 20:45 / #
pawian: I can`t agree with you. GermanMan talks about things which are true. It is really surprising you don`t see it. :):):):) I see it alright he does speak a lot of sense then so do many here but: yes but: there are many way off the mark generalisations which are totaly unfounded, i cant be bothered to sift through his posts there all there. Babinich: this is about the Tabula Rasa. Tabula Rasa, this must be a nick name invented by a Rupert Murdoch ran establishment, THE MEDIA RULES?? Not here im afraid the people have spoken and there voice was loud and clear. It still rings out from Los Angeles to Moscow, Obamas the man........

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,647 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Jun 12, 09, 21:11 / #
GermanMan: I repeat: Nearly nobody cares about history here in Western Europe. Nobody cares or they want to forget?. pawian: Another scandal. An Irish paper, describing a visit of Irish youth to Auschwitz, used the term Polish concentration camps. Before i wouldn't have thought about that at all, to be honest. It was this forum that made me realise the implications of the words, "Polish concentration camp" and how completely wrong it was. Shifting my paradigm, yet agian.

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Jun 12, 09, 21:46 / #
SeanBM: Before i wouldn't have thought about that at all, to be honest. It was this forum that made me realise the implications of the words, "Polish concentration camp" and how completely wrong it was. It seems that for a native speaker Polish death camp may have two meanings: 1. The camp set in Poland. 2. The camp set in Poland and run by Polish people. You probably connoted the first meaning. However, there is a danger that someone may also associate death camps with Polish perpetrators.

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,049 Joined: May 26, 08	Edited by: Babinich Jun 13, 09, 03:28 / #
Wroclaw Boy: Tabula Rasa, this must be a nick name invented by a Rupert Murdoch ran establishment Sorry but you are wrong.

Wroclaw Boy	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Jun 13, 09, 20:34 / #
pawian: I can observe the same process taking place in Poland, especially among the youth. They are not interested in history at all, they just want to have good jobs, a lot of cash, nice houses and on top of that, fun in life. I expect you thought the same as a youth I know i did. i didnt learn anyhting at school regarding WWII or the holocaust or any other important history for that matter. I remember lessons on the Titanic and being brain washed by religion. Now im hungry for history and its all self taught. As a youth all i wanted to do was earn money get a motor bike and have girlfriends, well have sex with gilrs at least, and of course party like theres no tomorrow.

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,181 Joined: May 28, 09	Jun 16, 09, 21:59 / #
pawian: Poland will appoint seven generals to the North Atlantic Treaty Organization. One of them will be deployed in the NATO headquarters in Norfolk, USA. Glad to have him on board :)

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Torq Jun 22, 09, 09:25 / #
Poland counts in Europe. We have 6th GNP in EU, 6th largest population and 4th largest territory. Polish GNP has been growing steadily at an average pace of 5% a year in the last 4 years. It is equal to GNP of Netherlands and higher than that of Saudi Arabia. With time we will also catch up with the richest EU countries in GNP per capita. Our country starts to play more important role in both EU and NATO and most probably Jerzy Buzek will become the head of European Parliament. The future looks bright :) We only have to improve our birth rate and bring the emigrants back home. cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/PL.html

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Jun 22, 09, 11:35 / #
Torq: We only have to improve our birth rate and bring the emigrants back home. Convincing Polish women to have more children might be difficult. Poland is depopulating fast and if sth is not done soon, in 2050 there will be 5 million Poles less than now. We won`t be able to keep our status of an important country then. That is why we need more immigrants from Asia and Eastern Europe. From Africa too, I don`t mind. The more, the merrier. How? Polish men are bored with Polish women and the opposite. You can see it in Great Britain where cross-cultural and cross-racial partnerships and marriages with one Polish partner are very common. When immigrants come to Poland en mass, they will provide Polish males and females more incentive to reproduce. You might think that I am crazy and don`t realise the dangers of mass immigration. But I do and see no danger. I believe that Polish culture is so attractively rich that immigrants will accept or even adopt it as theirs without problems :):):) Just like in the past - the Commonwealth of Nations. I also believe in Polish tolerance - that except for individual cases of moronic racists, Poles will accept foreign immigrants and be able to live together in communities. Maybe I am naive but it is my modest dream.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,895 Joined: May 17, 07	Jun 23, 09, 15:27 / #
pawian: in Great Britain where cross-cultural and cross-racial partnerships and marriages with one Polish partner are very common. Is this really so bad?Do polish girls go for the Blacks and Arabs?

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08	Jun 24, 09, 00:38 / #
I said one Polish partner. Why do you start with girls immediately??? :):):):)

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	Edited by: Sokrates Jun 24, 09, 17:15 / #
pawian: That is why we need more immigrants from Asia and Eastern Europe. Why Asia? We got Ukrainians and Belarussians, people without their own cultural heritage who are easy to assimilate. pawian: From Africa too, I don`t mind. This is why you must stop now and go visit London, inviting colored minorities who will not assimilate is NOT an answer, we have **** poor neighbours with similar mentality and very little heritage and you want to invite minorities that will create ethnical and cultural problems, why not open up to Belarus and Ukraine, their kids will be 100% Polish. pawian: I also believe in Polish tolerance Look what it cost us, Jews, Germans, Ukrainians, all hostile to the Polish state, i'm all for immigrants but we need to be picky about who to let in, no Jews, no Africa or Asia and definitely no Muslims, learning from experience is a must. pawian: You can see it in Great Britain where cross-cultural and cross-racial partnerships and marriages with one Polish partner are very common. Sorry buddy thats not tolerance, thats because Polish girls from low income regions behave like wh0res on account of seeing marriage with a foreigner as a means of social advance.

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Jun 24, 09, 19:26 / #
Sokrates: Why Asia? Why not Asia? Consider the Vietnamese or the Chinese. They are hard-working, unassuming people who contribute much to the country`s welfare. Look what it cost us, Jews, Germans, Ukrainians, all hostile to the Polish state, i'm all for immigrants but we need to be picky about who to let in, no Jews, no Africa or Asia and definitely no Muslims, learning from experience is a must. This is a xenophobic view based on some national inferiority complex. You fear Jews, Germans, Ukrainians, Africans, Asians. In this way, with your pickiness, you will have no immigrants at all and in 100 years time Poland`s population will be 20 million. :):):):) I am not prejudiced and believe in the power of the Polish melting pot. There is room for everybody. Sorry buddy thats not tolerance, thats because Polish girls from low income regions behave like wh0res on account of seeing marriage with a foreigner as a means of social advance. Funny, you also belong to males who call sexually active women ******, but the same active men are studs and heroes? :):):):) I thought you are above it already. Another hurt-male-pride inferiority complex? :):):):) Think, maybe those coloured guys Polish women are fascinated with have got sth that Polish men don`t have???? :):):):):):) I know or knew a few girls, they weren`t from low income regions and didn`t dream about marriage at all.

tornado2007Threads: 20 Posts: 3,497 Joined: Jul 11, 07	Jun 24, 09, 19:33 / #
pawian: This is a xenophobic view based on some national inferiority complex. You fear Jews, Germans, Ukrainians, Africans, Asians. In this way, with your pickiness, you will have no immigrants at all and in 100 years time Poland`s population will be 20 million. :):):):) hang on a second you liberal, how is wanting a secure immigration policy being xenophobic???? Look at what has happened to the UK in the past 30 years, we have let so many people into the UK we don't know where some of them are, who is legally here and who is here illegally, thats if we know their here in the first place :). The UK is a great example of what happens if you do not have a solid immigration system put in place. Just because you do not want to let people into your country it does not mean you fear them, it simply means you want to secure the future of your nation. pawian: There is room for everybody. you would make a great politician with phrases like that

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Jun 24, 09, 19:57 / #
tornado2007: Just because you do not want to let people into your country it does not mean you fear them, it simply means you want to secure the future of your nation. :):):) The funniest thing is I don`t cease to think about the future and prosperity of my country. Look at the facts then: Poland: Population growth rate: -0.047% (2009 est.) country comparison to the world: 210 Birth rate: 10.04 births/1,000 population (2009 est.) country comparison to the world: 195 Total fertility rate: 1.28 children born/woman (2009 est.) country comparison to the world: 209 Ethnic groups: Polish 96.7%, German 0.4%, Belarusian 0.1%, Ukrainian 0.1%, other and unspecified 2.7% (2002 census) cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/PL.html What future can you expect with such indexes? As for your criticism of British immigration policy, you surely exaggerate: UK Ethnic groups: white (of which English 83.6%, Scottish 8.6%, Welsh 4.9%, Northern Irish 2.9%) 92.1%, black 2%, Indian 1.8%, Pakistani 1.3%, mixed 1.2%, other 1.6% (2001 census)

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	Jun 24, 09, 20:04 / #
pawian: What future can you expect with such indexes? So you're all for indiscriminate opening of the border to all minorities? What about muslims, blacks and jews causing problems now and historically? Just ignore it and invite us a whole new bunch of issues?