Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored?

Jerzy Buzek, a former center-right prime minister of Poland, was elected president of the assembly with 555 votes out of 713 votes cast, becoming the first politician from an Eastern European country to hold one of the bloc’s high-profile posts.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jul 11, 09, 11:40 / #
Torq, I meant that Poland is rapidly developing a nouveau-riche culture very quickly. So many have cashed in from capitalism and used options not available under communism. Fur was used as a status symbol and it was even paradied as such in Polish programs. There were other options than fur, ortalion for example. Clothes doesn't form any part of identity? That's BS! Cossack and fur were undeniably associated with Russia.

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,049 Joined: May 26, 08	Jul 11, 09, 12:14 / #
Seanus: So many have cashed in from capitalism and used options not available under communism. Seanus, For the record you'd consider the triumph of capitalism over communism a good thing correct?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jul 11, 09, 12:18 / #
For the record, no. I'm not a fan of either of the two and it doesn't make sense to talk of "triumph" here. I teach and if I happen to do that within the framework of some political system, then so be it as it's merely coincidental.

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,049 Joined: May 26, 08	Jul 11, 09, 12:23 / #
Seanus: I teach and if I happen to do that within the framework of some political system, then so be it as it's merely coincidental. A hypothetical: If you're a science teacher in the SU in the 1950s would you be indifferent to teaching the theory of Lysenkoism?

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	Jul 11, 09, 12:53 / #
Seanus: Cossack and fur were undeniably associated with Russia. Yes, but women in Poland were wearing fur long before Cossacks. In fact, women in Poland were wearing fur long before the country called Russia appeared.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Edited by: Seanus Jul 11, 09, 15:17 / #
Hypothetically speaking, I'm not into hypotheticals. Torq, I doubt that. It was a symbol of Russia and wasn't denounced. It was used for flashing wealth among the well-to-do wannabe aristocrats (glorified peasants).

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,049 Joined: May 26, 08	Jul 11, 09, 18:53 / #
Seanus, Would you teach a theory knowing it's wrong to ensure your own well being?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jul 11, 09, 18:57 / #
It depends if there was imminent danger.

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,365 Joined: Aug 15, 07	Jul 11, 09, 23:14 / #
Seanus: There were other options than fur, ortalion for example. Do you even know what ortalion was? <shudder> And by the way - Cossacks would not be too happy if they knew you lumped them together with the Russian Empire they were in conflict with for several centuries ;-p And seriously - all those women (and men, too) who have worn fur throughout the ages: they were Russian symbolism-carriers, right? I thought expensive fur like mink or seal were status symbols for the rich the world over, and cheap, nasty furs like rabbit or even squirrel were a desperate attempt made by the poor to look "classy" and stay reasonably warm. Well, the more you know...

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jul 11, 09, 23:19 / #
Do you? Do you think I just plucked it from the sky or do you think I researched it? I know who the Cossacks were, I was talking about the hats which are associated with Russia. I didn't say if it was an accurate association. Some Brits link Germany with sausages and Russia with vodka. That's a disservice to Poland. And what of those that didn't have fur then?

chinczykThreads: - Posts: 41 Joined: Oct 23, 08	Jul 12, 09, 04:39 / #
No doubt,at least Poland counts in East Europe

EurolaThreads: 6 Posts: 2,647 Joined: Dec 2, 06	Jul 12, 09, 09:18 / #
chinczyk: at least Poland counts in East Europe Is there still such thing? East Europe? The whole Europe should revise its thinking if the want to be called European Union or is the EU just a joke?

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Jul 12, 09, 12:43 / #
Eurola: EU just a joke? GDP is higher than ours I'm pretty sure.

kitty_the_katThreads: 1 Posts: 32 Joined: Jul 10, 09	Jul 12, 09, 12:51 / #
scrappleton: GDP is higher than ours I'm pretty sure. Economics 101: GDP stats can be skewed by so many different factors, and thus mean little, if anything

kitty_the_katThreads: 1 Posts: 32 Joined: Jul 10, 09	Jul 12, 09, 12:39 / #
Eurola: or is the EU just a joke? I know some who argue that it is...

MagdalenaThreads: 5 Posts: 1,365 Joined: Aug 15, 07	Edited by: Magdalena Jul 12, 09, 15:08 / #
Seanus: Do you? http://www.mayor.com.pl/pod_strony/podoferta/Ortalion1.jpg A very good alternative to fur coats in the depths of winter, I wholeheartedly agree... Seanus: And what of those that didn't have fur then? They wore sheepskin coats, padded winter jackets which didn't really offer a lot of comfort or warmth, or regular wool coats - stylish, but not not very warm either, being meant more for the autumn/spring seasons. I spent most of my childhood and teenage years either feeling cold, or freezing, or being bundled up in 100 layers and unable to move in the winter. ;-( This only changed with the influx of new, lightweight and warm materials in the early nineties. Have never owned a fur coat, BTW. Only a 30-year-old sheepskin monstrosity dyed green for some reason ;-p

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jul 12, 09, 17:52 / #
I thought they wore those ortalion coats with padded foam or artificial warmer. I was misinformed then. Anyway, we had duffel coats in Scotland. Very unsightly but they kept me warm as a kid. Anyway, I think we are miles off topic. Silly question, Poland counts but it has only been in the EU for just over 5 years so it hasn't made a telling impact. Every country counts as they sometimes need help implementing EU Directives which have direct effect. Also, they must take part in scoping meetings as part of EU Environmental Law etc etc. The principle of subsidiarity, formerly Art 5 of the Treaty, requires cooperation between the relevant players so Poland has to count. The EU cannot afford to have stray dogs ;)

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Feb 14, 07	Jul 14, 09, 11:18 / #
Does Poland count in Europe or is it ignored? from all what i sow till now, Poland is ignored and humiliated

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jul 14, 09, 11:59 / #
There are different operational levels and is just depends what level you occupy. Give me an EU privelege that Germany has that Poland doesn't and then you will see.

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Feb 14, 07	Jul 14, 09, 12:32 / #
Seanus: There are different operational levels and is just depends what level you occupy. Give me an EU privelege that Germany has that Poland doesn't and then you will see. one word - Kosovo Germany, France and Britain created situation and Polish soldiers on terain follow instructions of higher army stuff that is under control of Germany, France and Britain. Here. Polish army stuff exist to satisfy necesities of those three powers.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jul 14, 09, 14:32 / #
So Poland wasn't ignored and humiliated then, but included. Still, a bad cause to be involved in.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jul 14, 09, 21:18 / #
If Poland count??? :) Jerzy Buzek, a former center-right prime minister of Poland, was elected president of the assembly with 555 votes out of 713 votes cast, becoming the first politician from an Eastern European country to hold one of the bloc’s high-profile posts. http://www.nytimes.com/2009/07/15/world/europe/15poland.html (Before him it was the German Pöttering)

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Jul 14, 09, 21:20 / #
pawian: When Jerzy Buzek becomes the head of the European Parliament (with French and German support) , I will be able to give you one more example of appreciation. But now it is still too early.... That is why, only a small article for the time being.... This moment has come. Jerzy Buzek was elected the head of European Parliament. The European Parliament has elected former Polish Prime Minister Jerzy Buzek as the chamber's president. The vote on the 69-year-old Polish conservative was the first job of the newly-elected parliament in Strasbourg. Mr Buzek is the first politician from the former communist bloc to chair the parliament. He received 555 votes in a first ballot. The elections last month produced an assembly of 736 MEPs with the centre-right forming the biggest bloc. Mr Buzek headed a coalition government in Poland in 1997-2001. He joined the European Parliament in 2004, the year of Poland's EU accession. "Human rights will be a priority," Mr Buzek told MEPs, recalling the key role of the Solidarity trade union movement in democratising Poland in the 1980s. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/8148729.stm

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Jul 14, 09, 21:22 / #
I was first!

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08	Jul 14, 09, 21:27 / #
Bratwurst Boy: I was first! tongue It means Poland is ignored and humiliated by Germans, even in her own forum!!! :):):):):):):):):)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Jul 14, 09, 21:28 / #
pawian: It means Poland is ignored and humiliated by Germans, even in her own forum!!! :):):):):):):):):) YAY!

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Torq Jul 14, 09, 21:31 / #
Jerzy Buzek - a protestant who speaks perfect German. They couldn't have picked a more representative Pole for this position! ;) Seriously, it's good news. It shows that old EU countries are treating Poland with respect and that we can look at the prospects of future co-operation and tighter integration with more optimism. but still they could have picked some decent Catholic ;) pawian: It means Poland is ignored and humiliated by Germans, even in her own forum!!! Brilliant remark. I wish I had made it :(

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jul 14, 09, 21:33 / #
Torq: Jerzy Buzek - a protestant who speaks perfect German. Hmmm....can we claim him??? ducks ;)

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Torq Jul 14, 09, 21:37 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Hmmm....can we claim him??? ducks ;) No, it's to early. Wait about 500 years and try then ;)

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,189 Joined: Feb 14, 07	Edited by: Crow Jul 14, 09, 23:48 / #
Seanus: So Poland wasn't ignored and humiliated then, but included. i would say humiliated.... to spread Islam and serve to German interests in the region is real humiliation for Poland