Poland and Germany - Germany unhappy with the present border with Poland?

Expulsion of Germans after World War II.
From 1944 until 1948, between 13.5 and 16.5 million Germans were expelled, evacuated or fled from Central and Eastern Europe, making this the largest single instance of ethnic cleansing in recorded history.
Estimated number of those who died in the process is being debated by historians and estimated between 500,000 and 3,000,000.[83]

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Edited by: Moderator May 28, 09, 17:39 / #
CDU and Bavarian CSU issued a joint proclamation asked for international condemnation of expulsions also they asked for "recognition of the infringed rights". Well, evidently some Germans are not happy with present border with Poland.

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,755 Joined: Jul 3, 08	Edited by: McCoy May 28, 09, 17:44 / #
said that before. gerries are just the same scums as there were for all the previous millenium. nothing has changed and nothing will. we have to watch our backs and keep the guns ready.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Torq May 28, 09, 17:45 / #
Ironside: Well, evidently some Germans are not happy with present border with Poland. rolls eyes Not happy with the border? Well, I always say that Pomerania and Silesia are in the exact same place they've always been. If Germans want them, they should come and get them instead of moaning like bi*ches :) When will they fuckin wise up...

MatyjaszThreads: 2 Posts: 1,786 Joined: Jul 20, 06	May 28, 09, 17:53 / #
But didn't they actually state that they seek no boarder revision? Plus, what difference does it make. They can live in Szczecin or Zielona Góra without any boarder revisions.

1jolaThreads: 33 Posts: 2,739 Joined: Sep 23, 08	May 28, 09, 17:56 / #
I don't see what they mean. Their border with Poland is just where it was when they started: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kingdom_of_Germany

ZIMMYThreads: 10 Posts: 2,243 Joined: Feb 21, 09	May 28, 09, 18:04 / #
As to "recognition of the infringed rights", I'd say that WWII started by the Germans infringed on rights to the max.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	May 28, 09, 18:09 / #
@Espana: I don't know about Spanish army, but Wojsko Polskie in the full war-time mobilization is able to call-up to arms about 3 million reservists - tough, brave man, fighting on their terrain, defending their homes and families, having at their disposal weapons slightly worse but comparable to those of German army (the gap in technology between our armies is certainly not as wide as it was 70 years ago and we'd have more than cavalry to welcome German panzers now :)). No conventional army without the use of atomic weapons (and as far as I know Germans don't have atomic weapons yet) would ever be able to beat that force. So, I repeat to our German friends and neighbours - you want "your" lands? Come and get them :)))))

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 28, 09, 18:20 / #
Should Poland give them back some of the land under certain condition ?

SwitekThreads: 1 Posts: 66 Joined: May 28, 09	May 28, 09, 18:29 / #
Ironside: Well, evidently some Germans are not happy with present border with Poland. I know some Poles who aren't to happy about our eastern border as well.

espanaThreads: 39 Posts: 2,200 Joined: Feb 28, 07	May 28, 09, 19:09 / #
Torq: I repeat to our German friends and neighbours - you want "your" lands? Come and get them :))))) you have been watching 300 espartan to much .......the shortest book ever written is "Polish war heros"

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	May 28, 09, 19:34 / #
Bratwurst Boy: We ARE coming already ...shopping...visiting...holidaying...footballing...:) I don't mind you shopping, visiting and holidaying (actually, in summer there's probably more Germans than Poles in my home town of Ustka lol). As for footballing... we'll get you... that day will come... you just wait. clenches his fists as he contemplates the vision of sweet football revenge

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 28, 09, 19:34 / #
Frankly would someone help me to close the gap between a declaration against ethnic cleansings and starting another war about border revisions??? You lost me here...

gumishuThreads: 13 Posts: 3,634 Joined: Apr 6, 09	Edited by: gumishu May 28, 09, 19:35 / #
noone in his good mind plans any expulsions in these times (in civilised parts of world) so what is the aim of the declaration?? some hidden agendas? some trying to pass as victims while being perpetrators? btw German sorry European administration of Kosovo had not much against Kosovars expelling Serbs (well it was not as organised as it used to be in the WWII of course) - say it was exerting pressure on Serbs to leave I know this is a game to get the votes by German political parties - but hey they have fed this thing called expelees associations - German constitution used to state that Germany is a state with borders as they were in 1937 (I don't know what it is now - is it any different)?

gumishuThreads: 13 Posts: 3,634 Joined: Apr 6, 09	Edited by: gumishu May 28, 09, 19:51 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Would a declaration against paedophiles also make you ask about a hidden agenda??? declaration against expulsions is just as badly needed as one against pedophiles and yes I am very suspicious - our prime minister used to bash on pedophiles a couple of months ago - called for harsh treatment etc (obligatory chemical castration or the like) - and no it was not because it was really in urgent need - it was beacause our prime minister (the present one) needed to bolster his Public Relation image (I should add that nothing he proposed found way to real legislation) post-war Poland never made claims to any lands previously within Polish borders yes these infringement rights are somehow hmmm necessary???

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 28, 09, 19:13 / #
Switek: I know some Poles who aren't to happy about our eastern border as well. Very Good! espana: you have been watching 300 espartan to much .......the shortest book ever written is "Polish war heros" Are you the author?

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	May 28, 09, 19:23 / #
espana: you have been watching 300 espartan to much .......the shortest book ever written is "Polish war heros" Old joke - and it was "Italian war heroes" if my memory is not failing me.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 28, 09, 19:28 / #
Ironside: international condemnation of expulsions Erm...tell me again..what's wrong with that??? Are you in favour of ethnic cleansings? Torq: So, I repeat to our German friends and neighbours - you want "your" lands? Come and get them :))))) We ARE coming already ...shopping...visiting...holidaying...footballing...:) (We are those loud mouths with beer bellies and white socks/sandals...our new uniform...)

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Edited by: lesser May 28, 09, 19:33 / #
Ironside: CDU and Bavarian CSU issued a joint proclamation asked for international condemnation of expulsions also they asked for "recognition of the infringed rights". CDU and CSU = PiS Usually this is profitable to play the populist card during election campaign. However some parties specialize in doing this by use of historic issues.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 28, 09, 19:36 / #
Would a declaration against paedophiles also make you ask about a hidden agenda??? gumishu: German constitution used to state that Germany is a state with borders as they were in 1937 (I don't know what it is now - is it any different)? That was a requirement for the re-unification negotiations...membership of Germany in the NATO (instead of neutrality as demanded by the USSR and preferred by many Germans) and the acceptance of the eastern borders! This thing is done....what is it with you Poles? Ironside: CDU and Bavarian CSU issued a joint proclamation asked for international condemnation of expulsions also they asked for "recognition of the infringed rights". a link?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 28, 09, 19:52 / #
gumishu: post-war Poland never made claims to any lands previously within Polish borders Well..you GOT what you wanted! gumishu: yes these infringement rights are somehow hmmm necessary??? They try to forbid paint ball and video games...shrugs

espanaThreads: 39 Posts: 2,200 Joined: Feb 28, 07	Edited by: espana May 28, 09, 19:58 / #
Torq: I don't know about Spanish army, i know about the Polish authorities , they like to steal things. The government agents of the Second Spanish Republic bought 20 units (Czechoslovakia airplanes ), which were shipped to Gdyna in Poland for boarding, but were blocked by the Polish authorities .

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	May 28, 09, 20:02 / #
gumishu: post-war Poland never made claims to any lands previously within Polish borders That's not strictly speaking true, is it? Well, not officially true anyway.

BartolomeThreads: 2 Posts: 1,342 Joined: Sep 14, 06	May 28, 09, 20:04 / #
Bratwurst Boy: We ARE coming already ...shopping...visiting...holidaying...footballing...:) But please, when you decide to build houses in Poland, choose projects that aren't similar to barns (as one German did in my home village).

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 28, 09, 20:10 / #
Bartolome: But please, when you decide to build houses in Poland, choose projects that aren't similar to barns (as one German did in my home village). He build a barn??? :)

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	May 28, 09, 20:10 / #
espana: The government agents of the Second Spanish Republic bought 20 units (Czechoslovakia airplanes ), which were shipped to Gdyna in Poland for boarding, but were blocked by the Polish authorities . Proper order. You guys are so full of hot air you don't need airplanes to fly.

gumishuThreads: 13 Posts: 3,634 Joined: Apr 6, 09	May 28, 09, 20:16 / #
Harry: gumishu: post-war Poland never made claims to any lands previously within Polish borders That's not strictly speaking true, is it? Well, not officially true anyway. what do you mean?

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	May 28, 09, 20:25 / #
gumishu: Harry: gumishu: post-war Poland never made claims to any lands previously within Polish borders That's not strictly speaking true, is it? Well, not officially true anyway. what do you mean? That in 1951 Poland claimed territory which had been Polish before WWII.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 28, 09, 20:37 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Well..you GOT what you wanted! What do you know...... Bratwurst Boy: Are you in favour of ethnic cleansings? lame we are talking about expulsion of Germans after WWII here

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 28, 09, 20:44 / #
Ironside: What do you know...... Silesian "uprisings" anyone? Ironside: we are talking about expulsion of Germans after WWII here Me too... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ethnic_Cleansing#20th_century Expulsion of Germans after World War II. From 1944 until 1948, between 13.5 and 16.5 million Germans were expelled, evacuated or fled from Central and Eastern Europe, making this the largest single instance of ethnic cleansing in recorded history. Estimated number of those who died in the process is being debated by historians and estimated between 500,000 and 3,000,000.[83]