Poland and Germany - Germany unhappy with the present border with Poland?

Torq:

I found a link to today's article in which CDU eurodeputy Elmar Brok
says that Polish-Greman border is politically and legally untouchable
and that nobody in Germany questions it.

He also protests against the unfair interpretation in Poland of the proclamation
for international condemnation of expulsions which according to him has nothing
to do with revision of current borders in Europe.

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	May 28, 09, 20:51 / #
Ironside: CDU and Bavarian CSU issued a joint proclamation asked for international condemnation of expulsions also they asked for "recognition of the infringed rights". Well, evidently some Germans are not happy with present border with Poland. I'm in two minds over this, from one side i hope thats just electoral ********* but knowing full well how must Germans are about the matter i dont think so. From one side we have PiS who are probably right in every point they make but they make those points like raving morons, from the other side we have PO which reacted in a severely inadequate way. Expulsions of Germans post WW2 need to be supported as morally sound consequence of a genocidal war, how can we in clear coscience say that these repercussions were immoral, Germans suffered a consequence of their own actions rewarding their descendants with a moral thumb up in the face of all that happened between 1939 and 45 is wrong. Switek: I know some Poles who aren't to happy about our eastern border as well. Oh we are very unhappy but its not our closet policy to one day recover it.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 28, 09, 20:55 / #
You are a PISser Socrates? How disappointing... When you take the right to follow idiotic politicians please allow Germans the same! Sokrates: Oh we are very unhappy but its not our closet policy to one day recover it. Ditto here...

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	Edited by: Sokrates May 28, 09, 20:57 / #
Bratwurst Boy: You are a PISser Socrates? How disappointing... Jesus no, hate those dwarves. Bratwurst Boy: When you take the right to follow idiotic politicians please allow Germans the same! I voted for PO, i'd vote for a herpies ridden hooker if it made those little twats lose, it doesnt change the fact that PO should speak out on the international forum, perhaps not even point blank opposition but to make the German statement a milder sounding one.

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	May 28, 09, 20:57 / #
Sokrates: Expulsions of Germans post WW2 need to be supported as morally sound consequence of a genocidal war, Only you could describe ethnic cleansing as "morally sound". Sokrates: how can we in clear coscience say that these repercussions were immoral, Mistreating civilians is always immoral. Full stop. Sokrates: Germans suffered a consequence of their own actions rewarding their descendants with a moral thumb up in the face of all that happened between 1939 and 45 is wrong. An eye for an eye until the whole world is blind, eh?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 28, 09, 21:01 / #
Sokrates: I voted for PO, i'd vote for a herpies ridden hooker if it made those little twats lose, it doesnt change the fact that PO should speak out on the international forum, perhaps not even point blank opposition but to make the German statement a milder sounding one. Heh:) Could you point me to that bone of contention? Ironside still didn't gave a link...

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Edited by: Ironside May 28, 09, 21:02 / #
Harry: That in 1951 Poland claimed territory which had been Polish before WWII. who and where? Bratwurst Boy: Silesian "uprisings" anyone? Well, I was thinking about eastern border ... Should give us border from 1772 and nobody would be complaining, and asking for compensation for 120 years of occupation. And uprisings were real expression of the feelings of local population. Bratwurst Boy: From 1944 until 1948, between 13.5 and 16.5 million Germans were expelled, evacuated or fled from Central and Eastern Europe, making this the largest single instance of ethnic cleansing in recorded history. Who live by the sword, by the sword die - or something like that!

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy May 28, 09, 21:05 / #
Ironside: Well, I was thinking about eastern border ... Well, I not! Ironside: Who fights with sword, by the sword die - or something like that! The expelled were civilians, not soldiers...women and children mostly who never used a "sword"! And yes, a declaration against ethnic cleansings as a matter of policy is a good thing...I wonder why you protest so greatly! Or are ethnic cleansings only bad if the expelled and killed are Poles? And I really would like a link to that...where do you have this from?

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	May 28, 09, 21:08 / #
Ironside: Harry: That in 1951 Poland claimed territory which had been Polish before WWII. who and where? The Polish government and the area around Ustrzyki Dolne.

gumishuThreads: 13 Posts: 3,634 Joined: Apr 6, 09	May 28, 09, 21:20 / #
Harry: Ironside: Harry: That in 1951 Poland claimed territory which had been Polish before WWII. who and where? The Polish government and the area around Ustrzyki Dolne. Harry: Ironside: Harry: That in 1951 Poland claimed territory which had been Polish before WWII. who and where? The Polish government and the area around Ustrzyki Dolne. This was a territory exchange with the SU - Poland gave away the area of Sokal and were given Ustrzyki vicinity - soon the Soviets developed coal mining industry around Sokal (Wladymir Volynski) - don't know if it still in operation now so the exchange was rather favourable to the Soviets

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,023 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Torq May 28, 09, 21:27 / #
I found a link to today's article in which CDU eurodeputy Elmar Brok says that Polish-Greman border is politically and legally untouchable and that nobody in Germany questions it. He also protests against the unfair interpretation in Poland of the proclamation for international condemnation of expulsions which according to him has nothing to do with revision of current borders in Europe. http://fakty.interia.pl/swiat/news/brok-granica-polsko-niemiecka-niepo dwazalna,1314281,2943 However, I do wonder what does he mean by "recognition of the infringed rights"? Rights of refugees to come back to their home lands? Not very likely - more like rights to get back all the property (land, homes, infrastructure etc. etc.).

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Edited by: lesser May 28, 09, 21:35 / #
espana: The government agents of the Second Spanish Republic bought 20 units (Czechoslovakia airplanes ), which were shipped to Gdyna in Poland for boarding, but were blocked by the Polish authorities . You should be grateful that Polish government stopped weapons supply for Spanish commies. If they would be too powerful, perhaps they would manage to win civil war. This could be interpreted as a gesture of solidarity with oppressed Spanish people. Later Franco also expressed his solidarity with oppressed Polish people.

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,543 Joined: Dec 29, 06	May 28, 09, 21:45 / #
lesser: Later Franco also expressed his solidarity with oppressed Polish people. Franco was Hitlers ally. Hitler practised tactics used in Poland on the Spanish people first in support of the fascist Franco.

gumishuThreads: 13 Posts: 3,634 Joined: Apr 6, 09	May 28, 09, 21:51 / #
szkotja2007: lesser: Later Franco also expressed his solidarity with oppressed Polish people. Franco was Hitlers ally. Hitler practised tactics used in Poland on the Spanish people first in support of the fascist Franco. Franco was not so much Hitler's ally. But it's true that Germans did help him winning the civil war. Spain under Franco did not later cooperate with the Germans.

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	May 28, 09, 22:00 / #
szkotja2007: Franco was Hitlers ally. Hitler practised tactics used in Poland on the Spanish people first in support of the fascist Franco. No Hitler helped Franco in Spain but Franco did not back him during WWII. I don't understand how can you still repeat this nonsense. One could think that I explained Francist political doctrine in details in one of older threads. I suggest to use search engine and reread.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	May 28, 09, 21:29 / #
Harry: The Polish government and the area around Ustrzyki Dolne. You mean Soviet puppets? Bratwurst Boy: The expelled were civilians, not soldiers...women and children mostly who never used a "sword"! Germans started ethnic cleansing and were fighting to death - should expect some retaliations. Bratwurst Boy: Or are ethnic cleansing only bad if the expelled and killed are Poles? phew !! Bratwurst Boy: And I really would like a link to that...where do you have this from? polish website

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	May 28, 09, 21:42 / #
Torq: I found a link to today's article in which CDU eurodeputy Elmar Brok says that Polish-Greman border is politically and legally untouchable and that nobody in Germany questions it. He also protests against the unfair interpretation in Poland of the proclamation for international condemnation of expulsions which according to him has nothing to do with revision of current borders in Europe. Right in all points...

BartolomeThreads: 2 Posts: 1,342 Joined: Sep 14, 06	Edited by: Bartolome May 28, 09, 22:28 / #
Bratwurst Boy: He build a barn??? :) A house like a barn. With a view on his own garage, hehe

szkotja2007Threads: 38 Posts: 2,543 Joined: Dec 29, 06	May 28, 09, 22:30 / #
lesser: One could think that I explained Francist political doctrine in details in one of older threads. That "one" swould indeed be one - yourself. ;-) lesser: I suggest to use search engine and reread. I did and read about Angel Alcazar de Velasco, the Naviera Iberica etc etc etc and all the other support that Franco gave Hitler in his fight against the allies ( including Poland ).

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,192 Joined: Feb 14, 07	Edited by: Crow May 28, 09, 23:10 / #
Germany unhappy with the present border with Poland i told you, didn`t i

mets2redsox0Threads: 1 Posts: 51 Joined: Mar 24, 07	Jun 19, 09, 05:26 / #
"Expulsion of Germans after World War II. From 1944 until 1948, between 13.5 and 16.5 million Germans were expelled, evacuated or fled from Central and Eastern Europe, making this the largest single instance of ethnic cleansing in recorded history. Estimated number of those who died in the process is being debated by historians and estimated between 500,000 and 3,000,000" Well, let me put my Two Cents in here, Now, I am Second Generation Irish / Lithuanian American. Having said all of that, the last Time I checked, the German's (the Nazi's, Hitler) Started World War II in Europe in the first place, and the Russian's Kicked-Out (or Killed) all the German's and all of the People of German heritage from the east back in to what became East German!, after the War was over!.

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,192 Joined: Feb 14, 07	Edited by: Crow Jun 19, 09, 08:02 / #
Germany unhappy with the present border with Poland after Kosovo they would like to have more under their control or under control of their satelites. They have greedy fingers Problem is that Tusk support creation of Greater Albania. By anology, he for sure loves Greater Germany, too. What i want to tell you Poljaci, you have problem. A lot of problems

gumishuThreads: 13 Posts: 3,634 Joined: Apr 6, 09	Edited by: gumishu Jun 19, 09, 11:41 / #
Bratwurst Boy: The expelled were civilians, not soldiers...women and children mostly who never used a "sword"! And yes, a declaration against ethnic cleansings as a matter of policy is a good thing...I wonder why you protest so greatly! Or are ethnic cleansings only bad if the expelled and killed are Poles? And I really would like a link to that...where do you have this from? who support those who live by the sword need to pay consequences for what who live by the sword do - the law of karma - if you don't have proper judgement of what is being done in your name don't moan afterwards szkotja2007: I did and read about Angel Alcazar de Velasco, the Naviera Iberica etc etc etc and all the other support that Franco gave Hitler in his fight against the allies ( including Poland ). gumishu: Franco was not so much Hitler's ally. But it's true that Germans did help him winning the civil war. Spain under Franco did not later cooperate with the Germans. I should add significantly - the things you mentioned were anything but significant for German war effort

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	Jun 19, 09, 15:21 / #
Torq: Come and get them :))))) You realise we would lose any war with Germany? (Of course we'd probably break their industry and make their goverment collapse due to their losses in such war but we'd still lose).

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Jun 19, 09, 15:57 / #
gumishu: who support those who live by the sword need to pay consequences for what who live by the sword do - the law of karma - if you don't have proper judgement of what is being done in your name don't moan afterwards Karma! What crap! What did Poland do to deserve partitions and occupation for 50 years??? Wanna tell me? :):):) Or what did the Ukrainians do to deserve to be the poorest sods of them all during the 21th century (first starved to death, later killed from two fronts). Usually the ordinary citizens, the women and children, bear the brunt of the consequences of the decisions of them above, their rulers, but there is nothing they can do about it! Bad luck when you live in such times, such places, but not "Karma"! Or....since you are so self-righteous....imagine you were a german mother and housewife in Germany during that time...what exactly would you do to stop that madness? Or what Karma are you living through? waits expectantly Crow: What i want to tell you Poljaci, you have problem. A lot of problems Well...right now serbian warmongers are the ones with problems it seems, neither Poland nor Germany! :)

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,192 Joined: Feb 14, 07	Jun 19, 09, 16:23 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Well...right now serbian warmongers are the ones with problems it seems, neither Poland nor Germany! :) sure, sure... just f* off your greedy fingers from Slavija and pray to Alah with your muja friends who would say,... you evil Teutons turned into f***g caliphate

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Jun 19, 09, 16:25 / #
Crow: sure, sure... just f* off your greedy fingers from Slavija and pray to Alah with your muja friends who would say,... you evil Teutons turned into f***g caliphate Oooooch...did I got you Crowie? :)

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,192 Joined: Feb 14, 07	Jun 19, 09, 16:29 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Oooooch...did I got you Crowie? :) i feel sorry for you. Realy. Nothing personal but please, don`t humiliate yourself look, i am sure that there is hope for you.... turn to Serbia or Poland or even to Russia if it is more acceptable to you and found Slav (Sarmatian) in yourself Mother Slavija shall protect you from Eurabia

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,354 Joined: Dec 16, 08	Jun 19, 09, 16:30 / #
Crow: who would say,... you evil Teutons turned into f*****g caliphate That was freeckin awesome xD

ShaykhThreads: - Posts: 10 Joined: Jun 18, 09	Jun 19, 09, 16:33 / #
what in da bloody world are you all arguing about? I am sooo interested. Crow seems to be trying to save the world!!! But I don't know from what, can you tell me please?

HarryThreads: 59 Posts: 7,996 Joined: May 2, 07	Jun 19, 09, 16:49 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Well...right now serbian warmongers are the ones with problems it seems, neither Poland nor Germany! :) That would be precisely right. They can't even hold on to what they believe to be their homeland!