Poland and Germany - Germany unhappy with the present border with Poland?

Torq:

Sure they do. However, when it comes to conflict it isn't the army with most
modern equipment that wins in modern war - ask Americans or Russians.

Torq:

The losses that Germans would suffer in a modern warfare conflict with Poland
(in which they would need 6:1 advantage to overcome not only the conventional
forces but also OTK units) make any thought of war between our countries
completely unrealistic.

z_dariusThreads: 20 Posts: 4,378 Joined: Oct 18, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: z_darius Jun 19, 09, 16:52 / #61
espana: you have been watching 300 espartan to much .......the shortest book ever written is "Polish war heros" Was it written by Spaniards while their azzes were being beaten in Guernica? Or during the decades of the fascists government in Spain? Harry: That in 1951 Poland claimed territory which had been Polish before WWII. Yeah, Poland threw it overwhelming might against the meager remnants of the Soviet Army and the Soviets blinked at the horrifying prospect of Poland's aggressive demands. Thus Poland became an empire that could now easily afford to wipe the Soviet tears with other lands that the Soviets received. Heck, prior to that Poles forced the Soviets to administer Western Ukraine, chunks of Byeloruss and adjacent areas so that themselves they could force Germans out of Western Poland. A very fearsome nation those Poles. About this time next year Poland is likely to span 25 continents. Harry, you are in a class by yourself. I have never met, online or offline, anybody with so blatantly twisted approach and so blinded by hatred to a country.

SokratesThreads: 10 Posts: 3,632 Joined: Jan 19, 09 Gender: Male [Suspended]	Jun 19, 09, 16:55 / #62
Crow: Mother Slavija shall protect you from Eurabia You know Crow i'm still in two minds, are you doing crack or is it some ongoing joke that only you're lauighing at ...

SeanusThreads: 19 Posts: 22,785 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 19, 09, 18:54 / #63
It does seem like a propaganda wind up. Sorry, Crow, I agree with Sokrates. You do put out the same messages without taking concrete steps to make any changes.

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	Edited by: Crow Jun 20, 09, 00:58 / #64
Sokrates: You know Crow i'm still in two minds, are you doing crack or is it some ongoing joke that only you're lauighing at ... man, don`t tell me that EU or NATO looks more serious to you then eventual Slavija hahah hahha aahhahah ahahha hahah muahamuahahahahah ahahah ahha ahahah ahahhaha ahahh Seanus: You do put out the same messages without taking concrete steps to make any changes. you mean, you point on princip of Gavrilo Princip?

SeanusThreads: 19 Posts: 22,785 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 01:03 / #65
I have to stay on topic, Crow. I'm leading too many threads astray. I can imagine the Germans being unhappy. Those Gerries love lebensraum. I don't imagine too much bad feeling with the present borders, though. They have learned to live with it.

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 01:05 / #66
Seanus: I can imagine the Germans being unhappy. i can imagine, too

SeanusThreads: 19 Posts: 22,785 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 01:07 / #67
I don't think they ever abandoned their drang nach osten policy. The Germanic influence is fairly noticeable in parts of Silesia. They'd have Chorzów as Konigshutte, Gliwice as Gleiwitz and Wrocław as Breslau. Who knows that the future will bring?

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 01:12 / #68
Seanus: Who knows that the future will bring? Polish-Serbian alliance?

SeanusThreads: 19 Posts: 22,785 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 01:33 / #69
Well, perhaps. I think the borderlines are here to stay.

OgorkiThreads: - Posts: 89 Joined: Aug 4, 08 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 03:05 / #70
I would much rather trade Wroclaw with Lwow and Szczecin with Wilno. Wilno and Lwow are much nicer. Lwow is bigger than Krakow.

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 08:44 / #72
just for the record i`m not satisfy with borders of Germany. As a Serb from Balkan i am quite interested that Lusatian Serbs finaly get independance. It would be democratic. Down with German occupators!

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 08:48 / #73
Crow: Lusatian Serbs finaly get independance. It would be democratic There's too many countries in Europe already.

HarryThreads: 26 Posts: 4,543 Joined: May 2, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 13:47 / #76
God damn it! I hate having to agree with sokrates! But here he's completely right.

TorqThreads: 41 Posts: 2,532 Joined: Apr 10, 09 Gender: Male GOLD MEMBER	Edited by: Torq Jun 20, 09, 16:56 / #77
Sokrates: You realise we would lose any war with Germany? Most probably we wouldn't. During the wartime mobilization Wojsko Polskie would call-up to arms 3 million reservists. The gap in technology between our armies is much smaller than it was in 1939. Conventional forces of the invader in modern warfare would have to outnumber the defender by 3:1 Luckily, well organized Obrona Terytorialna Kraju adds couple more million to the defence force and the attackers would need 6:1 advantage to defeat it. All that, plus the amount of terror that would hit Germany in case of their occupying any part of Polish land would make the Israeli-Palestinian conflict look like a kindergarten brawl. So basically, in military terms we are invincible (except of course for the case when invader uses atomic weapons, but as far as I know Germany is not in the possesion of such weapons). Sokrates: we'd still lose I really don't think so, but anyways - those speculations are purely theoretical because last time I checked we were in the same military alliance as Germany and our relations were quite decent (chancellor Merkel even supported Jerzy Buzek for the head of European Parliament recently :)). Anyways... ... :D

SRK85Threads: - Posts: 65 Joined: Mar 30, 09 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 06:07 / #71
Ogorki: I would much rather trade Wroclaw with Lwow and Szczecin with Wilno. Wilno and Lwow are much nicer. Lwow is bigger than Krakow Apparently Stalin was going to give Poland either Lwow, or Wilno after the war but latter changed his mind. But why would the Germans blame Poland? The Poles never created the modern border it was created by Stalin.

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 08:56 / #74
scrappleton: There's too many countries in Europe already. so you suggest that we all obey to Eurabia??!!!

SokratesThreads: 10 Posts: 3,632 Joined: Jan 19, 09 Gender: Male [Suspended]	Jun 20, 09, 13:12 / #75
Crow: Polish-Serbian alliance? Or perhaps your conquest by Muslims and cutting Serbs off from the internet so we're spared further fairy tales?

NathanThreads: 12 Posts: 1,170 Joined: Feb 13, 09 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 17:14 / #78
Sokrates: You realise we would lose any war with Germany? I do.

SokratesThreads: 10 Posts: 3,632 Joined: Jan 19, 09 Gender: Male [Suspended]	Edited by: Sokrates Jun 20, 09, 17:58 / #79
Nathan: I do. Your military has barely enough money to feed its soldiers Nathan, you'd get overrun by a grandma with an attitude :)))) Torq: Most probably we wouldn't. Lets be realistic, Germany has one of the most modern and efficient militaries in Europe, its going to be 20 or more years before we catch up in that regard.

TorqThreads: 41 Posts: 2,532 Joined: Apr 10, 09 Gender: Male GOLD MEMBER	Edited by: Torq Jun 20, 09, 18:16 / #80
Sokrates: Germany has one of the most modern and efficient militaries in Europe. Sure they do. However, when it comes to conflict it isn't the army with most modern equipment that wins in modern war - ask Americans or Russians. The losses that Germans would suffer in a modern warfare conflict with Poland (in which they would need 6:1 advantage to overcome not only the conventional forces but also OTK units) make any thought of war between our countries completely unrealistic.

SokratesThreads: 10 Posts: 3,632 Joined: Jan 19, 09 Gender: Male [Suspended]	Jun 20, 09, 18:55 / #81
Torq: Sure they do. However, when it comes to conflict it isn't the army with most modern equipment that wins in modern war - ask Americans or Russians. No its also the army with the highest general standard of training which again is Germany, trooper for trooper our professionals are much better and they proved it multiple times during excersize but a large component of our army is not yet professional. Torq: The losses that Germans would suffer in a modern warfare conflict with Poland (in which they would need 6:1 advantage to overcome not only the conventional forces but also OTK units) make any thought of war between our countries completely unrealistic. Am i supposed to take this seriously? The first step to removing your weaknesses is to admit them, currently we dont stand a chance in a war with Germany.

TorqThreads: 41 Posts: 2,532 Joined: Apr 10, 09 Gender: Male GOLD MEMBER	Jun 20, 09, 19:02 / #82
Sokrates: currently we dont stand a chance in a war with Germany. Well, I guess we'll have to agree to disagree on this one and let's hope that we won't have to find out who was right.

SeanusThreads: 19 Posts: 22,785 Joined: Dec 25, 07 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 19:17 / #83
It would hinge on the commitment of both sides and the clarity of their respective objectives. Sorry Torq, I think Sokrates is right on this one. Still, that's a hypothetical.

PolskaManThreads: 3 Posts: 184 Joined: Jan 3, 09 Gender: Male	Jun 20, 09, 21:44 / #84
Espana may i ask if we surrendered then how did we end up winning ww1 Polish-Soviet war and ww2? I dont think Spain took part in neither ww1 or ww2 the biggest wars of the 20th century

Pan KazimierzThreads: 2 Posts: 276 Joined: Jul 4, 09 Gender: Male	Edited by: Pan Kazimierz Jul 4, 09, 21:40 / #85
Sokrates No its also the army with the highest general standard of training which again is Germany, trooper for trooper our professionals are much better and they proved it multiple times during excersize but a large component of our army is not yet professional. But our Spec-Ops trump yours. See: GROM. Further, your military, as I recall, is burdened with horrific size limits of something under half a million. I can't see the countries which insisted on these limits overlooking their violation with Germany as the aggressor. And the burden of holding on to a captured territory? In the WWII days, the acts of blowing things up with Molotov Cocktails or openly assassinating officers that were at first oh-so-frequent were stopped by the reprecussion of wholesale slaughter of the civilian population. Nowadays, I doubt that would fly. Iraq would look look like a training ground for the forces of world powers in comparison, unless I miss my guess and Davies horrificly exaggerates the scale. But, on to the topic at hand. It is true; the method and consequences of the expulsions of ethnic Germans from the Western lands were terrible. They should be recognized as such, but no more. Those atrocities pale in comparison to those performed by the occupying Germans. To be fair, recognition and apology for the latter is commonplace. But I still can't see anyone speaking on behalf of Germans demanding a Polish apology for atrocities commited upon civilians with a straight face.

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	Jul 4, 09, 22:26 / #86
Germany can cry. I hope Poland would prove to be stronger then Yugoslavia Poljaci! Poljaci!

tornado2007Threads: 19 Posts: 3,484 Joined: Jul 11, 07 Gender: Male	Jul 4, 09, 22:29 / #87
Crow: I hope Poland would prove to be stronger then Yugoslavia Poland is stronger than Yugoslavia!!!! look at Yugoslavia now it is split into about six different counties while Poland is still the one country :)

CrowThreads: 181 Posts: 4,774 Joined: Feb 14, 07 Gender: Male	Jul 4, 09, 22:34 / #88
tornado2007: Poland is stronger than Yugoslavia!!!! look at Yugoslavia now it is split into about six different counties while Poland is still the one country :) yes, Germany screwd us (Yugoslavs) well as long as Poland exist there is hope for us on the southern borders of Sarmatia Christ our Lord bless Poland and give strenght to Poles! Glory and freedom to Poland!