What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others?

Harry:

We can argue all you want about the fine details and what such details might or might not mean. However the very simple fact remains that both representatives of the official Polish government and the free Poles were invited to the London parade.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Dec 4, 08, 14:05 / #
Filios1: So whats your point? Both minorities were ill-treated in each country. What else is new? Well...it was your argument: "They lived in relative peace!"

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Harry Dec 4, 08, 14:06 / #
celinski: What did Poland get out of the wars and struggles for others? A superb and permanent excuse to bitch, whine, moan, complain and lie about how Poland is the only decent nation in the world and how all other nations either betrayed Poland or invaded Poland. Which does lead to the rather obvious question: if it is true that every nation in the world has either invaded or betrayed Poland, or both, what is it that Poland did/does to make the nation so universally disliked/hated? Bzibzioh: Britain issued an insulting invitation for "London Poles" - last minute, under pressure and exclusively only to some of them. Nobody with self-respect would accept. It would be a dishonor to attend under such circumstances. We can argue all you want about the fine details and what such details might or might not mean. However the very simple fact remains that both representatives of the official Polish government and the free Poles were invited to the London parade. Therefore the oft-told tale about Poles not being invited to the parade is just like your story about the RAF not launching any missions until 1940: a lie. Bzibzioh: And stop saying liar in every comment: it's boring and ineffective. If you could possibly stop lying, I wouldn't need to call you a liar in every post. Filios1: A few of the battles Polish forces took part in: A cracking list. But if we accept the claim made by some Poles that Poland was fighting in them solely to save Britain, by the same logic we can state that Britain fought all those battles solely to save Poland.

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Edited by: Filios1 Dec 4, 08, 14:06 / #
Bratwurst Boy: They lived in relative peace!" Relative. Harry: But if we accept the claim made by some Poles that Poland was fighting in them solely to save Britain Solely? Of course not. I am not a proponent of such logic... I was merely responding to a statement that "Poland did fuk all for anyone" during World War 2.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Dec 4, 08, 14:07 / #
Filios1: A different case. But German and Polish populations co-existed in relative peace. They can and they did. Bratwurst Boy: The moment Adolf Hitler gained the power it was already to late! Hitler is not the author of the Pan-German idea, the idea of dominating the weak and conquering an unlimited "living space" (Lebensraum) for the German nation. http://felsztyn.tripod.com/germaninvasion/id7.html

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 4, 08, 14:10 / #
Filios1: Solely? Of course not. I am not a proponent of such logic... Partly to save Britain? In that case Britain fought partly to save Poland. I know that you are not a proponent of such logic. However, some posters are. And they fail to see that Poles fought in precisely the same number of battles in Britain as Brits fought battles in Poland.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Dec 4, 08, 14:12 / #
Filios1: Relative. No...they did NOT live even in "relative" peace! And the Sudetens were NOT happy in Czechoslovakia and many, many Austrians wanted to become part of the german success-model under the leadership of one of their own! Austrians made later the best Nazis! Who taught you history Filios? If everything really had been so peachy Hitler would have stayed a failed painter and could never had gained such a crowd! Celinski? Try to post your own opinons instead of posting so much opinions from others..

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Dec 4, 08, 14:39 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Try to post your own opinons instead of posting so much opinions from others.. I was looking back to who started the notion of "the divine mission of the German nation." I was not aware the date went back that far. I just saw the July 20,1944 memorial for the first time on TV and what happened to the ones that tried to assassinate Hitler. On the news they were portrayed as hero's today. I never even heard of them in history class.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Dec 4, 08, 14:50 / #
celinski: I was looking back to who started the notion of "the divine mission of the German nation." I was not aware the date went back that far. Well...try to look at the Germans not always through the lenses of WWII... Germans fighted for unification as a nationstate longer than others and what connected us were never borders but language and culture. It had never so much to do with a Generalplan OST... I don't know if you know that but a fight against invaders (the French) was it what started a feeling of unity of "we Germans"...

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 4, 08, 15:00 / #
celinski: I never even heard of them in history class. But Carol, there are a huge number of things that you never heard of in your history classes....

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Dec 4, 08, 15:15 / #
celinski: I just saw the July 20,1944 memorial for the first time on TV and what happened to the ones that tried to assassinate Hitler. On the news they were portrayed as hero's today. I never even heard of them in history class. Coming soon to a theater near you: URL

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 [Suspended]	Dec 4, 08, 15:42 / #
Kilkline: celinski: What no funny joke about them? Who? So you suddenly don't understand English? I will be nice than and tell you: tasteless jokes about wars you Brits lost. Go on, don't be shy. Show me your superiority and your sense of humor. Kilkline: We've lost a few, but when it mattered.....well, modesty forbids me from finishing the sentence.

osiolThreads: 59 Posts: 4,714 Joined: Jul 25, 07	Edited by: osiol Dec 4, 08, 15:50 / #
Love of hatred is hatred of love. Make love not war, as they said. ... . ... There was a list of all the wars I have fought. I won them all, by the way.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Dec 4, 08, 15:53 / #
Bzibzioh: superiority and your sense of humor. U have missed a U from HUMOUR :-) hows that for superiority :-)

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 [Suspended]	Dec 4, 08, 16:02 / #
time means: i would say the thousands of dead in cemetarys across the world would make that look like a stupid comment. Not Polish one, though.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Dec 4, 08, 15:19 / #
Harry: there are a huge number of things that you never heard of in your history classes your point? Wow, did you just have a full post without using "lier"? Bratwurst Boy: Well...try to look at the Germans not always through the lenses of WWII... I try to keep an open mind and I will be the first to admit the majority of time has been spent on the eastern side of Poland during 1900-present time span. I have come to the defence of German's and have blasted them. All in all I am here to learn.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 4, 08, 15:28 / #
celinski: Wow, did you just have a full post without using "lier"? It seems that there are also a huge number of things that you missed in you English classes, such as how to spell 'liar'....

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Dec 4, 08, 15:31 / #
Now is enough Harry...be a gentleman!

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Harry Dec 4, 08, 15:46 / #
Bzibzioh: I will be nice than and tell you: tasteless jokes about wars you Brits lost. Go on, don't be shy. Show me your superiority and your sense of humor. Or we could tell jokes about the wars that Poland has won in the past 500 years. Here is a full list of jokes about those wars: Is that all of them?

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 [Suspended]	Edited by: Bzibzioh Dec 4, 08, 15:57 / #
Harry: We can argue all you want about the fine details and what such details might or might not mean. However the very simple fact remains that both representatives of the official Polish government and the free Poles were invited to the London parade. The very simple fact remains that Brits didn't issued proper invitation that would be acceptable. Yes, those fine details matter. And didn’t fulfilled their obligation as an ally to us. You have to be stiff Brit not to get that. Well, nobody is perfect. time means: time means Wanna help your buddy and provide some jokes? He got cold feet suddenly.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Dec 4, 08, 16:00 / #
Bzibzioh: And didn’t fulfilled their obligation as an ally to us. i would say the thousands of dead in cemetarys across the world would make that look like a stupid comment.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Dec 4, 08, 16:04 / #
Bzibzioh: Not Polish one, though. how do you mean?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Harry Dec 4, 08, 16:18 / #
Bzibzioh: The very simple fact remains that Brits didn't issued proper invitation that would be acceptable. Yes, those fine details matter. And didn’t fulfilled their obligation as an ally to us. Oh, I'm sorry. I've always heard from Poles how they were not invited to the parade. In fact the problem was that they didn't think that the invitations which they were issued were not proper enough for them. Funny how Poles can be so correct and fussy about things like being properly invited but are so happy to tell offensive lies about people when it suits them. As for your comment about not fulfiling obligations: go count graves. War was declared for you and fought for you; peace with only one condition was rejected. But never a single word of thanks from Poles, just lies and complaints. time means: Bzibzioh: Not Polish one, though. how do you mean? She means that what is stupid to her kind of Pole is failing to tell an offensive lie when the chance comes up

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 [Suspended]	Dec 4, 08, 16:20 / #
time means: how do you mean? Those thousands died but not in Poland.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 4, 08, 16:21 / #
Bzibzioh: Those thousands died but not in Poland. Go to Malbork and say that. Go to Krakow and say that. Go to Poznan and say that.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Dec 4, 08, 16:26 / #
Bzibzioh: Those thousands died but not in Poland. no. in defence of a free europe. the one we live in today. the one that lets you write such stupid comments as your last post.

KilklineThreads: 3 Posts: 894 Joined: Jul 23, 07	Dec 4, 08, 16:37 / #
Filios1: I was merely responding to a statement that "Poland did fuk all for anyone" during World War 2. When I said this the emphasis was on the word 'for'. The motivation was what I was questioning. Bzibzioh: I will be nice than and tell you: tasteless jokes about wars you Brits lost. Go on, don't be shy. I'd love to be able to tell such a joke but the subject isnt exactly a rich seam for comedy. Theres not alot to work with really. Bzibzioh: Show me your superiority and your sense of humor. Been there, done that.

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 [Suspended]	Dec 4, 08, 16:42 / #
Harry: As for your comment about not fulfiling obligations: go count graves. War was declared for you and fought for you; peace with only one condition was rejected. But never a single word of thanks from Poles, just lies and complaints. I found it hypocritical that you are dismissing claim that Poles fighting in Britain fought for Britain but fight like hell to convince us that Brits fought ONLY for Poland. Kilkline: I'd love to be able to tell such a joke but the subject isnt exactly a rich seam for comedy. Theres not alot to work with really. Yet you manage one tasteless about Poland. I feel so special now.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Dec 4, 08, 16:45 / #
Harry: Funny how Poles can be so correct and fussy about things like being properly invited but are so happy to tell offensive lies about people when it suits them. Why do you take the posts and instead of learning how Polish percieved the invite of "Moscow Poles" as a non invite you try to cover for mistakes in the past? To add insult to injury, you call this an "offensive lie". If you still cannot understand that in Poland the Polish military were now dealing with "Soviet occupation" vs. "Nazi" you never will. Bratwurst Boy: Coming soon to a theater near you: URL That was the movie they were showing when I learned about July 20th. Tom C. was talking about how erie it was and how the whole crew were feeling the effects. Thanks, Carol Bratwurst Boy: Now is enough Harry...be a gentleman! Thank you Sir

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 [Suspended]	Edited by: Bzibzioh Dec 4, 08, 16:48 / #
Harry: Go to Malbork and say that. Go to Krakow and say that. Go to Poznan and say that. Malbork and Poznan happened to be outside of GG, though. Krakow has a few graves but not thousands. As usual you are nitpicking, Harry.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Harry Dec 4, 08, 16:52 / #
celinski: Why do you take the posts and instead of learning how Polish percieved the invite of "Moscow Poles" as a non invite you try to cover for mistakes in the past? Because, dear lady, I know that the 'non-Moscow Poles' were also invited to the parade. And I also know that just like the 'Moscow Poles', the 'free Poles' didn't bother turning up to the parade they had been invited to. celinski: To add insult to injury, you call this an "offensive lie". There is no injury: both 'free' and 'Moscow' Poles were invited to the parade. Your claims that free Poles were not invited is a lie and an offensive lie. Bzibzioh: Malbork and Poznan happened to be outside of GG, though. Krakow has a few graves but not thousands. As usual you are nit-picking, Harry. I am sorry that there aren't enough graves in Krakow for you. And I'm also sorry that both Poznan and Malbork are outside of GG (whatever that is). I thought you asked for "Polish" cemetaries. I didn't realise that you wanted only specific parts of Poland contained in specif borders of Poland. It's a pity that Poland isn't currently within its 1902 borders. Might I suggest that you go fuk yourself? Not enough British people are buried in Krakow and Malbork and Poznan for you to think that Britain fulfilled its obligations to Poland? Enough are buried there for me to think that the mistake of Britain was not entering the war: it was entering the war on the same side as Poland.