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Poland Rejects US Missile Shield (talks will continue...)

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joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,521 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Jul 4, 08, 15:11 / #
From NPR: National Public Radio US July 4, 2008 Poland Rejects U.S. Missile Defense Plan Poland on Friday rejected a U.S. offer to boost its air defenses in return for basing a missile shield on Polish soil, but the Polish prime minister said will remain open for further talks with Washington. "We have not reached a satisfactory result on the issue of increasing the level of Polish security," Prime Minister Donald Tusk told a news conference after studying the U.S. proposal. Without citing Russia's opposition to the plan explicitly, Tusk argued that placing a missile defense facility in Poland, a Soviet satellite during the Cold War, would create new security threats. Tusk said talks will continue. "I wouldn't talk about the end, suspension, or interruption," he said. "Negotiations, in my opinion, are continuing." The U.S. wants to place 10 missile interceptors in northern Poland as part of a shield against a possible attack by Iran or a "rogue state." Complete details of the offer have not been made public. From what I understand, Tusk & Kaczynski rejected it because the gangster US Government wanted Poland to pay for almost ALL OF IT!...Keep an eye out for your 'allies'! npr.org/newsinbrief/index.html

Foreigner4Threads: 21 Posts: 1,747 Joined: Nov 18, 07	Jul 4, 08, 15:59 / #
great news, but i hope his "negotiations are continuing" is a euphamism for "that's the end of it" I think if Poland pays for it then it gives a foreign power that much less influence in Polish affairs. If the U.S. were to pay for it then that would be a much worse case scenario imho.

Wahldo	Jul 4, 08, 17:00 / #
It was a bad idea on many levels -- good for Poland.

randompalThreads: 7 Posts: 431 Joined: Jul 10, 07	Jul 5, 08, 02:52 / #
joepilsudski: From what I understand, Tusk & Kaczynski rejected it because the gangster US Government wanted Poland to pay for almost ALL OF IT!...Keep an eye out for your 'allies'! haha that would be typical, just about what many of us expected. The US is the master of twisting agreements to make it so the other side ends up getting its share through "trade credits" and so on. There have been many nasty rumors associated with Poland's Iraq-Afghanistan adventure, namely that the US is paying for Poland's participation through trade credits, and the costs to keep the soldiers there actually come from our state budget-the budget that should be increasing teachers/nurses/doctors salaries and building highways. What idiots!!! (if true, which wouldn't surprise one considering what buffoons our politicians are) but just you wait, the Dark Side of the American Force will shove this stupid shield down our throats yet...

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Jul 5, 08, 06:54 / #
Foreigner4: I think if Poland pays for it then it gives a foreign power that much less influence in Polish affairs. If offered a bribe, Polish politicians are always ready to surrender some competences to foreign states. The only problem is that soon they will have nothing to sell.

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,192 Joined: Feb 14, 07	Jul 5, 08, 07:07 / #
joepilsudski: Poland Rejects U.S. Missile Defense Plan now beware Poles! seriously beware if refuse to be USA/German/British/Franch pupet! same way how USA screwed Serbia, it would do it to Poland Serbia was always loyal allay to USA on Balkan but, it wasn`t enough to USA that they could count on us in case of eventual Russian imperialistic intentions but, they wanted to use us for conquest on Russian resources. When Serbs refused, we got sanctions, economic blockade, anti-Serbian propaganda war, mujaheedines were sent on us, our civilians were target for bombardement with depleted uranium, our country suffered partition,...

skiThreads: 12 Posts: 202 Joined: Jun 28, 08	Edited by: ski Jul 5, 08, 07:09 / #
joepilsudski: (talks will continue...) There will be agreement :) you will see :)

hairballThreads: 34 Posts: 770 Joined: Dec 16, 07	Jul 5, 08, 07:10 / #
randompal: the Dark Side Let's just hope that they (Poland's politicians) aren't waiting for a decent "back-hander." My wife thinks that this is the case :-(

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,521 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Jul 5, 08, 11:08 / #
hairball: Let's just hope that they (Poland's politicians) aren't waiting for a decent "back-hander." My wife thinks that this is the case :-( Here's the deal as I see it...A missile shield for Poland?...might be a good idea, but where is the missile threat coming from?...Russia?...don't think so...Iran?...c'mon, let's get real here!...China?...hah!...What the US wants is to build this shield, have the Poles pay for most of it with their own money, or 'credits' which is just another word for 'debt' for Polish/US taxpayers...US military experts and advisors will operate it...the US wants this as a 'bargaining chip' against Russia, and the US companies who are bidding on the project, like Raytheon, will make money...There is no long-range missile threat against Poland, and this proposed shield could not stop Russian cruise missiles anyway, if this is the issue...Poland having it's own cruise missiles would be a better option...Does Poland have these?...Possibly, Poland could purchase old ones from the US...Russia probably will not sell this technology to Poland...but, the Chinese would if Poland wanted to go in this direction...Cruise missiles are the most economical and effective missile technology...the Russians have the world's besr, the 'Sunburn'...it flies at 1800 MPH...it is unstoppable,,,Anti-missile shields, like the US 'Patriot' series, have never been proven to work effectively.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jul 5, 08, 11:16 / #
Poland is showing maturity, merely suspending talks. The ball is back in America's court. Look at the Israeli-Palestinian conflict, a protracted wrangle if ever there was one. Everyone knows that there isn't an imminent threat from Iran. If there was such an urgent need to adhere to a program of installation, it would be underway by now. Having read more on the issue, I'm moving away from the American position. Tusk is doing what the big guns have done all along, posture and devise strategy. Acquiescing to America is not the way to go. Well done Donald!!

pawianThreads: 80 Posts: 4,542 Joined: May 30, 08	Jul 5, 08, 12:15 / #
Why the first round of negotiations failed and were suspended??? The Polish government demand a few batteries of Patriot missiles, under the Polish command and all year round. For free, of course. Americans are ready to dole out only one battery, under American command only, and for 4 months a year. Really, how much does a battery of Patriot rockets cost???? Are Americans so thrifty when it comes to their strategic safety from rogue countries` missiles????

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,521 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Jul 5, 08, 12:51 / #
Seanus: Having read more on the issue, I'm moving away from the American position. Tusk is doing what the big guns have done all along, posture and devise strategy. Acquiescing to America is not the way to go. Well done Donald!! I would agree...when you do a deal, sometimes you have to kiss a little ass...but not the whole ass...and, there will be a new American president, for whatever that's worth...so better to hedge your bets...and, as I said, these Patriot missiles are unproven anyway.

Wahldo	Jul 5, 08, 13:19 / #
Crow: now beware Poles! seriously beware if refuse to be USA/German/British/Franch pupet! same way how USA screwed Serbia, it would do it to Poland little too dramatic.. this is a failed business deal.

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,192 Joined: Feb 14, 07	Jul 5, 08, 13:26 / #
Wahldo: little too dramatic.. this is a failed business deal. if you expirianced NATO bombardment, you would also be a little `dramatic`

shopgirlThreads: 7 Posts: 1,446 Joined: Apr 6, 07	Jul 5, 08, 13:33 / #
Crow: if you expirianced NATO bombardment, you would also be a little `dramatic` Crow, that was nine years ago. You know why it happened....they were trying to stop the free-for-all killings. Yes, I know that there were lots of other groups involved in that.....but how else do you think it could have been stopped? The Serbs couldn't control it....no one even knew "who" was doing "what" most of the time. Tell how you think it should have been handled.

Wahldo	Jul 5, 08, 13:40 / #
Crow: if you expirianced NATO bombardment, you would also be a little `dramatic` I'm not making light of that and I don't have Phd in Intl Relations but the US is not bombing Poland over a failed business deal. It's irresponsible to suggest this.

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,192 Joined: Feb 14, 07	Jul 5, 08, 13:59 / #
Wahldo: I'm not making light of that and I don't have Phd in Intl Relations but the US is not bombing Poland over a failed business deal. It's irresponsible to suggest this. well, you are possible right. You sound logically. But anyway, beware. THEY are serious when seek for way to bypass economic crisis in USA and even more serious when dream of capturing resources which hold Slavic world

Wahldo	Jul 5, 08, 14:19 / #
Crow: THEY are serious when seek for way to bypass economic crisis in USA and even more serious when dream of capturing resources which hold Slavic world Well.. I don't blame you for being suspicious of the US. I'm not saying you're delusional, nothing wrong with champion Slavice causes. Chomsky is right in many respects in pointing out hypocrisy of America. Serbia issue was never thought out.. Somehow I think this was due to following British around, blindly taking their advice. (I'm not completey sure though). There are big crises and little ones.. economic problems in the US are kind of medium right now. Fooling around in Bohemia / Poland, the Baltics would not be medicine for the problem.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jul 5, 08, 14:26 / #
And the British advice was?

HuegThreads: 1 Posts: 428 Joined: Apr 16, 07	Jul 5, 08, 15:22 / #
And the British advice was? Don't introduce televoting. But they never listen. Well ok then just don't press the red button. Please. :)

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jul 5, 08, 15:24 / #
Too late...LOL

CrowThreads: 365 Posts: 7,192 Joined: Feb 14, 07	Edited by: Crow Jul 5, 08, 15:38 / #
Hueg: Well ok then just don't press the red button. Please. :) Seanus: Too late...LOL when you mentioned how goes that back in 1999... when Russian general said that Russian ICBM needs 11 minutes to reach London? There was scandal and of course, general was removed from duty after statement.

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	Jul 5, 08, 19:10 / #
Wahldo: Somehow I think this was due to following British around, blindly taking their advice. (I'm not completey sure though). That would be that the Serbs were once again carrying out ethnic cleansing and whole sale murder of civilians,as you guys hadnt dared to contribute ground troops to the NATO/UN peace keeping forces(thus turning them into a bit of a paper tiger) the only option left open was bombing raids. The raids wuld have been more palatable had they come say against the aggresive Serbian forces laying siege to Sarajevo a few years earlier,or ,in Kosovo,actually against the serb militia and gendarme units involved directly in driving "albanians" from their homes,instead the US/NATO ended up pretty indiscriminatly bombing Serbia,taking out bridges full of civilians,tomahawks landing in housing estates and blowing up TV stations and the frikkin Chinese embasy. Sort of using a lump hammer to crack a pea nut.

Wahldo	Jul 5, 08, 19:15 / #
isthatu2: the only option left open was bombing raids. which was clearly a mistake and I'm sure it will reap blow back as the CIA terms it.

isthatu2Threads: 12 Posts: 4,857 Joined: Apr 3, 08	Jul 5, 08, 19:25 / #
Wahldo: which was clearly a mistake and I'm sure it will reap blow back as the CIA terms it couldnt agree more. My town saw alot of Balkan refugee's through the 90s, a medical condition kept me from the UN forces but lots of my mates served in Bosnia and saw just what savages the Serbs could be,medievil sh*t, crucifiying old "muslim" ladys and torching entire villages in school basements. Of course there were Croat and bosniak barbarians aswell but,on the whole the serbs were the aggresors and seemed filled with people of crows ilk,ie ,nutters that justify murder and rape because of some 600 year old vendetta. (if your interested W'there is an exellent TV film on the subject called Warriors staring the guy who played Mjr Winters in Band of Brothers)

Wahldo	Jul 5, 08, 20:04 / #
isthatu2: (if your interested W'there is an exellent TV film on the subject called Warriors staring the guy who played Mjr Winters in Band of Brothers) Yes thanks, I'll check it out via Amazon.. I'll just cross check that guy from Brothers. I know travesties occured I don't deny that, I didn't know about crucifixions and things. However it was just foolish and sinful policy to indescrimately bomb the Serbs..one would think Clinton would have better sense. The US doesn't know enough about Bolivia let alone Central and South Eastern Europe. 600 years is a long time but you've had your similar bouts with the Irish too going back to Henry the VIII? IRA squabbles have just recently cooled it seems.. a loose analogy but still.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Feb 14, 09, 01:37 / #
It would appear that it is going to go ahead. Surely, the signatures would show that but U-turns are permissible. Further clarification talks may well be in order.

DiceThreads: 20 Posts: 677 Joined: Nov 27, 07	Edited by: Dice Sep 17, 09, 14:09 / #
It looks like the President scraped that whole plan, thank God. No more missile shield: http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20090917/ap_on_re_eu/eu_eastern_europe_miss ile_defense

sledzThreads: 29 Posts: 3,202 Joined: Sep 19, 06	Sep 17, 09, 14:16 / #
They were complaining about us putting the missle shield in, saying stupid things like (Americans want to build a missle shield to steal our women) and other misguided thoughts. Now no missle shield and they still complain?? randompal: but just you wait, the Dark Side of the American Force will shove this stupid shield down our throats yet... There you go Darth Vader is coming to get you...lol

mvefaThreads: 11 Posts: 971 Joined: Jul 21, 09	Sep 17, 09, 14:45 / #
sledz: They were complaining about us putting the missle shield in, Americans should shove their missile shields up their (beeeeeep!!!!) damn! they keep beeping me :(

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