Poland Rejects US Missile Shield (talks will continue...)

scrappleton:

This was in the 1800s ..when there were all kinds of jobs. That's over now. The gravy train is closed. Here's an amazing concept, stay home in Poland and grow your own economy?? I don't know, rely on yourselves??? This is what we do.. and you all know we're all "fat and stupid". Surely you can do it.

scrappleton:

Well said..Yeah for chrissake, we're flat busted over here. Stay home Poles. You hate us and insult us constantly anyway. We should just write them a check for the wow.. 2500 soldiers they gave us and call it a day. I mean 2500 troops and you feel betrayed? There is no EU without US aid over the years. Poland's in the EU. How about a damn thank you? Plenty of our skulls knocking around on the bottom of the North Atlantic. I'm sure they felt betrayed too.

I swear this is the EU in general.. bit/ch about this.. bit/ch about that. US is evil, blah, blah..You don't get this flak from the Asians all the time.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 18, 09, 01:25 / #
Dice: I simply have a hard time following your logic. I think you purposely don't want to. It is not THAT hard to get...maybe that is also the reason for the broader misunderstandings between the US and Europeans...who knows...shrugs

wzgrzaThreads: - Posts: 60 Joined: Sep 1, 09	Sep 18, 09, 03:17 / #
Ironic this announcement comes on the 17th of September..

BabinichThreads: 1 Posts: 1,054 Joined: May 26, 08	Edited by: Babinich Sep 18, 09, 03:40 / #
wzgrza: Ironic this announcement comes on the 17th of September.. I am sure the Tabula Rasa has no idea about the significance of this date in Polish history. http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0909/Polish_PM_wouldnt_take_US_ calls.html?showall

wzgrzaThreads: - Posts: 60 Joined: Sep 1, 09	Edited by: wzgrza Sep 18, 09, 03:55 / #
krysia: Typical Polish belief. Just because you need a visa you feel like a begger. There were visas to Poland, did we feel like beggers? We could care less, This may go over your head, but this would be sending a sign, that nobody is going to bend over here, without getting anything in return. It is a two way road. The point is not whether you care or not at all. Hardly meet any Americans who know where Poland is.. much less yet go there. Why do the Poles feel like they have to be bigger and better than everyone else? Why you trying to come here anyway? And once you're here, all you care about is how much money you make. That's what America is to Poland, MONEY. Bigger and better then everyone else? By wanting to be treated fairly? Seems you don't know what you are on about. Don't know if you have been paying attention, but money is what makes the world go round, ESPECIALLY in the good ol' U.S.A. And that's what America is to ANY fresh immigrants (including your ancestors) is MONEY!! You talk like this fact is a shock or surprise to you. You come here and don't obey the rules, (you make your own rules) and cheat and lie just to get ahead. Poles give a bad image in America by walking around drunk, stealing and lying and act like they are better because they came to America. Everything you say here is driven by your clear dislike of Poles (or what at least seems like). Millions of Poles came here with nothing in hand, and worked their way up to having a home and putting their kids through school, and starting from scratch a new, normal life. So please don't mix up your relatives, and friends with the Polish population in the U.S. Way to generalize (an unfair and wrong generalization at that) an entire nationality. And the INS does have information on the illegals, except they hide all over Chicago and can't find them. [quote]Look what's happening in England? They can't stand you there Just like in any other country where there is an influx of foreigners. Remember the Irish and NYC way back when? Besides, the English in Poland arent necessarily looked upon favorably by the Polish, either.

krysiaThreads: 26 Posts: 3,604 Joined: Aug 10, 06	Sep 18, 09, 04:14 / #
wzgrza: And that's what America is to ANY fresh immigrants (including your ancestors) is MONEY!! And there you go. You made my point. I wasn't born in Poland and into their mentality.

wzgrzaThreads: - Posts: 60 Joined: Sep 1, 09	Sep 18, 09, 04:34 / #
krysia: And there you go. You made my point. I wasn't born in Poland and into their mentality. What point? Apparently you are missing mine. If you don't understand why people emmigrate from their home country, then there is no point of even arguing with you.

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Edited by: scrappleton Sep 18, 09, 04:38 / #
wzgrza: Just like in any other country where there is an influx of foreigners. Remember the Irish and NYC way back when? This was in the 1800s ..when there were all kinds of jobs. That's over now. The gravy train is closed. Here's an amazing concept, stay home in Poland and grow your own economy?? I don't know, rely on yourselves??? This is what we do.. and you all know we're all "fat and stupid". Surely you can do it. krysia: We live here, we pay taxes, we are poor, homeless like everywhere else in the world, but that is overshadowed by the image America portrays as being rich and Poles see that image and it transforms into MONEY!!!! You come here and don't obey the rules, Well said..Yeah for chrissake, we're flat busted over here. Stay home Poles. You hate us and insult us constantly anyway. We should just write them a check for the wow.. 2500 soldiers they gave us and call it a day. I mean 2500 troops and you feel betrayed? There is no EU without US aid over the years. Poland's in the EU. How about a damn thank you? Plenty of our skulls knocking around on the bottom of the North Atlantic. I'm sure they felt betrayed too. I swear this is the EU in general.. bit/ch about this.. bit/ch about that. US is evil, blah, blah..You don't get this flak from the Asians all the time.

wzgrzaThreads: - Posts: 60 Joined: Sep 1, 09	Edited by: wzgrza Sep 18, 09, 04:58 / #
scrappleton: This was in the 1800s ..when there were all kinds of jobs. That's over now. The gravy train is closed. Here's an amazing concept, stay home in Poland and grow your own economy?? I don't know, rely on yourselves??? This is what we do.. and you all know we're all "fat and stupid". Surely you can do it. This has absolutly nothing to do with what I said. Wooosshhh. scrappleton: Well said..Yeah for chrissake, we're flat busted over here. Stay home Poles. You hate us and insult us constantly anyway. We should just write them a check for the wow.. 2500 soldiers they gave us and call it a day. I mean 2500 troops and you feel betrayed? There is no EU without US aid over the years. Poland's in the EU. How about a damn thank you? Plenty of our skulls knocking around on the bottom of the North Atlantic. I'm sure they felt betrayed too. I swear this is the EU in general.. bit/ch about this.. bit/ch about that. US is evil, blah, blah..You don't get this flak from the Asians all the time. Poles should be the least bit of your worries if you are worried about immigration. Poles don't come here like they used to anyways. Rightfully so. Of those "wow 2,500 soldiers" that you speak of many have died for your little wars. But there you go a sentance later talking about your skulls knocking around on the bottom of the North Atlantic. I guess American lives are much more valubale. Thank you? And you lot talk about how we think the world owes us something. hahah

scrappletonThreads: - Posts: 1,365 Joined: Apr 28, 09	Sep 18, 09, 05:31 / #
wzgrza: Of those "wow 2,500 soldiers" that you speak of many have died for your little wars. Quick question: Do you feel that Muslim fanatics are of no threat to modern day Europeans? Maybe it's not such a silly little war. It's just silly to you. Like I said we can probably "pay" you for your service. You only need to tell us you want to be paid. We will pay you .. and then you can show it to "old Europe" and maybe they'll be appeased for 10 minutes. .. And then you reveal yourselves as nothing but the little money grubbing fools that you probably are. Krysia's observations were probably built upon experience. I know my own are. wzgrza: I guess American lives are much more valubale. ?? Hmmm... speaking of... wzgrza: This has absolutly nothing to do with what I said. wzgrza: Wooosshhh. You got that right, slick. Dog chasing his tail is what you are. Go get em' dog. By the way.. you're welcome for the EU. No way it gets off the ground without us.. no.. way. You're also welcome for all the money Pole Americans have pumped into your sh.tty little hands over the years. You are pathetic.. little better than Africans most of the time.

wzgrzaThreads: - Posts: 60 Joined: Sep 1, 09	Edited by: wzgrza Sep 18, 09, 07:09 / #
scrappleton: Quick question: Do you feel that Muslim fanatics are of no threat to modern day Europeans? Maybe it's not such a silly little war. It's just silly to you. Muslim fanatics have been around for YEARS, and will continue to exist, regardless of your occupation of Afghanistan (which is not the only terrorist hot-spot out there). The Taliban is gaining strength, and al-Qaeda is much stronger then "Operation Enduring Freedom" planned it on being.. seems there is a lot of work that still needs to be done there, a real zoo, and you need all the help you can get. ;) Afghanistan ; which you will likely back out of with time anyways, and it will become another lost war, like Vietnam.. with less casualties.. at least on the Allied side) Like I said we can probably "pay" you for your service. You only need to tell us you want to be paid. We will pay you .. and then you can show it to "old Europe" and maybe they'll be appeased for 10 minutes. .. You make Polands role in Afghanistan seem so insignificant, yet apparently your government doesnt seem to think so. Your government can barely show any gratitude, much less yet going to "pay" us for anything. And then you reveal yourselves as nothing but the little money grubbing fools that you probably are. Krysia's observations were probably built upon experience. I know my own are. If your observations are built off of experience, then you must be a real low-life that these are the types of people you affiliate yourself with, and yet whats worse is it seems you allowed them to take advantage of you at one point too... each stick has two ends. scrappleton: You got that right, slick. Dog chasing his tail is what you are. Go get em' dog Seems I have struck a nerve with you. I always know it when these take a personal twist. You had no idea what I was even refering to, now realise I had a point and you feel stupid that it in fact did go over your head. It's ok though, nobody here really knows who you are ;) Heres another question, if you think so poorly of Poles, why are you even on this forum?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 18, 09, 08:16 / #
Torq: However, Poland should answer accordingly. We have to finally realize that we have the 20th World's economy at the moment and we are able to excercise more independent politics, without blindly following the Americans who are repaying us with nothing more but constant humiliations (F-16 offset deal, visa system and now giving up on missile shield). We should withdraw our forces from Afghanistan for a start. then, when would Poland annul Kosovo recognition and start seriously to support Serbs?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Sep 18, 09, 08:18 / #
Crow: then, when would Poland annul Kosovo recognition and start seriously to support Serbs? it'll never happen crow.

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Torq Sep 18, 09, 08:31 / #
Crow: then, when would Poland annul Kosovo recognition and start seriously to support Serbs? I don't know about withdrawing the recognition of Kosovo. We shouldn't have recognized their independence in the first place, but withdrawing it is not very realistic (at least not with the current government). As for supporting Serbia, I believe that Poland should have much closer political and economic ties with Serbia than we have today. Slovenia is already in the EU and compared to muslim Bosnia and pro-German Croatia, Serbia seems to be a natural ally for Poland in the region (Macedonia is quite open for our influence as well, so we should take advantage of that and considerably tighten the ties with those two countries). More independent politics outside and building stronger institutions inside (including strenghtening the army and territorial defence) is what Poland needs at the moment.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 18, 09, 08:53 / #
Torq: compared to muslim Bosnia and pro-German Croatia, Serbia seems to be a natural ally for Poland in the region (Macedonia is quite open for our influence as well, so we should take advantage of that and considerably tighten the ties with those two countries). well said plk123: it'll never happen crow. ? plk123: plk123 are you Polish?

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Edited by: plk123 Sep 18, 09, 07:21 / #
scrappleton: Quick question: Do you feel that Muslim fanatics are of no threat to modern day Europeans? Maybe it's not such a silly little war. It's just silly to you. boo.. scaredy cat you.. hahaha the only threat to europeans is the europeans themselves. scrappleton: wzgrza: I guess American lives are much more valubale. ?? Hmmm... speaking of... see, this is what happens when your education system fails in teaching you the basics.. US only gets involved when it's profitable for US to get involved or somehow someone hurts US.. US decided to get involved in the WOT only after 9/11 while that war has actually been ragins for half a millennium. so, his comment is rather sensible and based on experience. ............. krysia: Look what's happening in England? They can't stand you there many english are dumbarses.. very similar to many americans..

TorqThreads: 65 Posts: 4,024 Joined: Apr 10, 09 MEMBER	Edited by: Torq Sep 18, 09, 07:45 / #
So, Americans decided to deal with Russia over our heads and gave up on missile shield in Poland. Surprise, surprise rolls eyes So, they decided to ignore their ally and dishonor the earlier agreement. Hey - no problem at all. Fair enough. Every country has right to excercise the kind of politics they think it's best for them and if US think it is best to lick Russian butt at the moment - it's their right to do so. However, Poland should answer accordingly. We have to finally realize that we have the 20th World's economy at the moment and we are able to excercise more independent politics, without blindly following the Americans who are repaying us with nothing more but constant humiliations (F-16 offset deal, visa system and now giving up on missile shield). We should withdraw our forces from Afghanistan for a start. Muslim fanatics are no threat to Poland at all, so it's time for a little bit of realpolitics and full withdrawal. We should build stronger position within EU and in countries that are open for Polish influence and investments (mostly in central and eastern Europe). The times of unconditional Polish support for USA have just ended and hopefully they will never come back.

plk123Threads: 30 Posts: 6,412 Joined: Aug 29, 07	Sep 18, 09, 07:51 / #
Torq: We should withdraw our forces from Afghanistan for a start. Muslim fanatics are no threat to Poland at all, so it's time for a little bit of realpolitics and full withdrawal. completely agree with that. always have.

rychlikThreads: 51 Posts: 446 Joined: Aug 6, 08	Sep 18, 09, 19:43 / #
Torq: The times of unconditional Polish support for USA have just ended and hopefully they will never come back. I need a few clairifications: I thought Poland received those F-16's like they were supposed to. Also, Tusk said that the USA will still give Poland 100 missiles for it's own defense. Sorry for this but I'm following this stuff from Canada. Is there anything else I should know concerning this?

SokratesThreads: 19 Posts: 4,464 Joined: Jan 19, 09 [Suspended]	Sep 18, 09, 20:06 / #
rychlik: I need a few clairifications: I thought Poland received those F-16's like they were supposed to. Poland bought those very expensive F-16s for a lot of money, it had nothing to do with any sort of an alliance, what we have are best planes in EU (for now) and we paid good money for them. The problem started when US started messing around with the offset deal, as far as i know it was eventually sorted out but Americans tried to squeeze money they had no right to as per deal. rychlik: said that the USA will still give Poland 100 missiles for it's own defense. Apart from sensational statements from our own (Polish) politicians that are designed to cover up the failure there is no indication that Poland will receive the battery. In fact US goverment as usually only hinted it 'might' transfer Patriots to Poland, when, what kind of warheads and on what conditions its unknown. In other words no Patriots. Crow: then, when would Poland annul Kosovo recognition and start seriously to support Serbs? When hell freezes over? Why would we admit to a political blunder by commiting another one? Torq: We should build stronger position within EU and in countries that are open for Polish influence and investments (mostly in central and eastern Europe). The times of unconditional Polish support for USA have just ended and hopefully they will never come back. Amen, Russian economy suffers, Ukraine and Belarus just sit there and look juicy, it would be a darn shame not to dance with them. As for US, after this middle finger, yeah, Polish support is over, our "alliance" probably will follow it down to the trash bin soon enough.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 18, 09, 20:39 / #
Sokrates: Why would we admit to a political blunder by commiting another one? it already isn`t secret that Poland mistaken, diplomaticaly and moraly Kosovo and the Polish Diplomatic Embarrassment by Agnieszka Skieterska, 2008-02-26 http://wyborcza.pl/1,86871,4965759.html fragments: As the tenth EU member state, Poland will recognise Kosovo`s independence today. But whether this means being late or early doesn`t really matter. It had been clear for months that the Albanian-dominated province would one day break away from Serbia. But when it finally happened, on 17 February, Warsaw sank into chaos. The cabinet was in favour of Kosovo`s independence, the President against it. The Dutch, whose compatriot, Pieter Feith, has for a couple of weeks now been in charge of the EU's mission in Kosovo and will oversee the creation of the new state, have almost managed to reconcile fire with water. It is such gestures that show whether a diplomacy has class. Poland's obviously doesn't.