Poland will take half a century to catch up with the West

Ogorki:

Germany is like a big fat spoilt brat that sits in it's cot and needs constant attention and loving care - otherwise this little brat will go around smashing up all the other kids toys. The only way you can stop this brat from smashing up others childrens toys is by giving it much bigger "shinier" toys to keep it out of trouble. Uncle SAM gave this little shit lots of toys to play with and now this brat has been forced to share his toys with his reunited twin brother -so now both brats are as one with all their toys.

zionThreads: 20 Posts: 180 Joined: Dec 21, 07	Edited by: Administrator Dec 19, 08, 10:44 / #
Poland will take half a century to catch up with the West According to the latest data published by Eurostat, Poland will need 55 years to catch up with the standard of living in Germany. In 2008, a Pole could afford only 55 percent of what an average EU citizen could. This is the worst result in the EU, with the exception of Romania and Bulgaria. The study shows that in 1997 the standard of living in Poland amounted to 47 percent of the EU average, meaning that Poland is catching up only 1 percent a year. The data also reveals that one of the most significant factors hindering development is unemployment. The report states that only 57 percent of those aged up to 65 actually work. Source: Dziennik (A.K.) http://www.wbj.pl/article-43849-poland-will-take-half-a-century-to-cat ch-up-with-the-west.html?typ=pam

Wroclaw Boy	Dec 19, 08, 10:54 / #
zion: Poland will take half a century to catch up with the West I would estimate around 30 years.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Dec 19, 08, 11:14 / #
Even as I'm not an expert I seriously doubt that. With all the money and support flowing Polands way from the EU they ought to catch up much more quickly. Most of Eastern Germany now looks already bright and shiny again even compared to big parts of western Germany - has catched up mostly already. Why should Poland be different?

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07	Dec 19, 08, 11:36 / #
mmm 30 years....thank god i will be dead by then....

loco polacoThreads: 3 Posts: 421 Joined: Aug 5, 08	Dec 19, 08, 12:14 / #
Wroclaw Boy: I would estimate around 30 years. that means that maybe 13y are left? that's what i am thinking although when euro kicks in things may roll back a bit.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Dec 19, 08, 12:18 / #
When I look on differences in GDP growt in Poland and old EU I have much different view on this 1% per year. This stats are very easy to find. I'd say 25 - 30 years. zion: The data also reveals that one of the most significant factors hindering development is unemployment. Unemployment is lower than in Spain or Ireland but too young Polish citizens can retire. http://www.londynek.net/wiadomosci/en/article?jdnews_id=2619&cat_id=39 "Unemployment in Poland has decreased to the record low rate of 6.5%. As a result, Poland in now a country with one of the lowest unemployment rates in the EU where the average amounts to 7.5%"

10iwonka10Threads: - Posts: 74 Joined: Aug 21, 08	Dec 19, 08, 15:06 / #
zion: In 2008, a Pole could afford only 55 percent of what an average EU citizen could Really.... In Poland people live in houses which they own in Germany 90% just rent.... In west europe couples often own 2 cars- Own? or bought them on credit. .. Uk with its huge debts is on the verge of bankrupcy.... Is it really so bad in Poland? I don't think so.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 19, 08, 15:15 / #
What a nonsense. This is perpetuating a myth. The Poles are not far behind at all. What arrogance to even suggest half a century.

10iwonka10Threads: - Posts: 74 Joined: Aug 21, 08	Dec 19, 08, 15:18 / #
I have been living in England for 6.5 years and each year when I come to Poland ( Krakow) I can see so many changes..... I know that it is partly due to help from UE but I don't see big difference between life in Poland and UK.

hairballThreads: 37 Posts: 787 Joined: Dec 16, 07	Edited by: hairball Dec 19, 08, 16:19 / #
Wroclaw Boy: 30 years. I think it will take longer than thirty! An example.... .....In "the west" they stopped cutting women's crotches 50 years ago as a matter of "routine" in child birth..... My wife had to go through a very distressing experience when refusing to let these butchers cut her because this is "routine" in Poland. The FEAR that the "doctor....?" tried to use in psychological black-mail in order to let them cut her turned out to be unnecessary! FACT: 98% of Polish women have their crotches cut in child birth as a matter of routine! The World Medical Assosiation says this figure should be under 10%.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 [Suspended]	Dec 19, 08, 17:34 / #
Seanus: Let's throw it out there, what does the West have that Poland doesn't? If you use the UK for example, the universal health care system is far more logical in the UK than in Poland. My head hurts just trying to understand exactly who and who isn't entitled to coverage from ZUS, for one. (something is very wrong about the fact that you can be left with no health care in this country if you're a newly graduated student who can't find a job).

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 19, 08, 17:36 / #
Yes, but we gave up 'from cradle to grave' a long time ago. You have to read the ZUS regulations more closely, min. Poland is pretty thorough when it comes to provisions. Sorry, the UK is hardly ahead when it comes to medical care and insurance coverage.

Wahldo	Dec 19, 08, 21:29 / #
Bratwurst Boy: NOT FAT! ..except for Merkel. Kidding.. Es tut mir leid, man. Have you really caught up to Westphalia, Baden-Wurttemberg and Bavaria? 18 years isn't that long. No more Trabbis?

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Dec 19, 08, 21:32 / #
Wahldo: Kidding.. Es tut mir leid, man. Have you really caught up to Westphalia, Baden-Wurttemberg and Bavaria? 18 years isn't that long. No more Trabbis? Only for curiosity races! :) Not all regions of West-Germany are the same...so are those of the former East. Many eastern regions have catched up with their western counterparts, as some of those got neglected. Regions like Saxony are already rivaling rich western regions, whereas Brandenburg or Mecklenburg Vorpommern are still very mixed...so are poorer western Länder.

PolsonThreads: 15 Posts: 2,812 Joined: May 9, 07	Dec 19, 08, 16:44 / #
I read once that Poland would 'catch up with the West' by 2020.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 19, 08, 17:10 / #
It's nonsense to arbitrarily ascribe a date to sth. I agree with 10iwonka10 above. Let's throw it out there, what does the West have that Poland doesn't?

OgorkiThreads: - Posts: 131 Joined: Aug 4, 08	Dec 19, 08, 19:58 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Most of Eastern Germany now looks already bright and shiny again even compared to big parts of western Germany - has catched up mostly already. Why should Poland be different? Germany is like a big fat spoilt brat that sits in it's cot and needs constant attention and loving care - otherwise this little brat will go around smashing up all the other kids toys. The only way you can stop this brat from smashing up others childrens toys is by giving it much bigger "shinier" toys to keep it out of trouble. Uncle SAM gave this little shit lots of toys to play with and now this brat has been forced to share his toys with his reunited twin brother -so now both brats are as one with all their toys. Next door the Polish baby gets as* fked by it's neighbours who take away it's toys and one of them moved in for over 40 years for regular in-house abuse. These 2 neigbours were eventually kicked the fk out and after years of neglect the EU salvation army gave the smelly Polish baby a brand new cot and mattrasse, milk bottle, dummy, teddy - all the essentials. Because this baby was well behaved and did not demand attention, it was not spoilt with many toys to keep it out of trouble. It was only given what it needed.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Dec 19, 08, 20:29 / #
Ogorki: Germany is like a big fat spoilt brat that sits in it's cot and needs constant attention and loving care - otherwise this little brat will go around smashing up all the other kids toys. The only way you can stop this brat from smashing up others childrens toys is by giving it much bigger "shinier" toys to keep it out of trouble. Uncle SAM gave this little shit lots of toys to play with and now this brat has been forced to share his toys with his reunited twin brother -so now both brats are as one with all their toys. NOT FAT!

Wahldo	Dec 19, 08, 21:58 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Not all regions of West-Germany are the same...so are those of the former East. Yes, agree.. always dangerous to generalize.

Wroclaw Boy	Edited by: Wroclaw Boy Dec 20, 08, 04:23 / #
Seanus: You have to read the ZUS regulations more closely, min. Poland is pretty thorough when it comes to provisions. My wife may require health care soon. In Poland she has two choices - private insurance for around 700 PLN / month or signing on the dole with the local scum bags at an allocated time every month. We could of course go private but the treatment alone would cost minimum 6000 PLN and if theres a problem it could escilate to a six figure sum. This for me is absolutely infuriating. Only this morning I parted with 150 PLN for routine blood tests. They do not even screen for many abnormalities which we consider common practice in Western Europe. They are about 20 years behind the times on this one.

delphiandomineThreads: 42 Posts: 9,954 Joined: Nov 25, 08 [Suspended]	Dec 20, 08, 04:59 / #
Seanus: Yes, but we gave up 'from cradle to grave' a long time ago. You have to read the ZUS regulations more closely, min. Poland is pretty thorough when it comes to provisions. Sorry, the UK is hardly ahead when it comes to medical care and insurance coverage. No way, look at some of the nonsense involved with the ZUS system. Wroclaw Boy's outlined one case, but there's plenty more. The system of requiring people to get stamps monthly in a booklet just to prove that they're entitled to health care is one example of absolute stupidity - what's the point in giving 90%+ of the country free health care and not the small minority who aren't entitled because they're not unemployed and not working? Of course, you then get the nonsense where if you don't have the stamp that month, you won't be covered - so if you get ill at the start of the month, need a doctor and don't have a stamp, forget about it. Again, compared to the UK system, it's just dreadful. And then of course, people like students are covered by their parents ZUS coverage - which again, just creates paperwork for someone to push around. But the minute they cease to be a student, that coverage stops. Of course the UK system isn't perfect - paying for prescriptions in some parts of the UK is an example. But the basic ability to get a doctor when you need one, irrespective of who you are is a good one. In relation to ZUS - what's the deal if you aren't insured and need to be taken to hospital in an emergency? (min...what a great word :D)

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08	Dec 20, 08, 05:59 / #
Is a glut of consumer goods bought on credit, an obsession with creature comforts and a house cluttered with high-tech gadgetry truly good for the human spirit? Does the obsessive pusruit of pleasure and self-indulgence create a decent person, an involved citizen and a devoted spouse and parent? During his recent trip to Poland the Dalai Lama asked: "Is having a lavish house and lavish car tantamount to true happiness?" It's something to think about. Let's hope Poland never catches up to the West in terms of the number of broken families, out-of-wedlock births, twisted lives, unhappy children, sexual perversity, drug abuse and irreligion -- all the things that lead to social depravity and decay.

Wroclaw Boy	Dec 20, 08, 07:21 / #
Heres a good one: I know somebody who paid to have a blood test (50 PLN) to check for an abnormality. They picked up the results only to find it was written in LATIN. So basically you have to pay again for a consultation with a doctor for the translation.

Wroclaw Boy	Dec 20, 08, 07:53 / #
Polonius3: Let's hope Poland never catches up to the West in terms of the number of broken families, out-of-wedlock births, twisted lives, unhappy children, sexual perversity, drug abuse and irreligion -- all the things that lead to social depravity and decay. Youre painting a pretty grim picture there Polonius, they only want better lives with decent roads etc.. without all the red tape. Most of what you listed above is evident in all societies regardless of economic status.

Polonius3Threads: 1,005 Posts: 4,833 Joined: Apr 11, 08	Dec 20, 08, 08:59 / #
Remember Wrocław Boy, we differ from snails and pigs in that besides the purely physical, there is a spiritual, cultural, moral and ethical side to man. Roads and bridges ALONE are like a dry, warm kennel, but the dog is unable to rise above that. Give him food, water and bitch in heat, and it doesn't get any better! But as homo sapiens must we not try to rise above the purely zoological?

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Dec 20, 08, 17:31 / #
zion: Poland will take half a century to catch up with the West There is no meaning in catching up.Poland will never be Germany.Czech Republic will never be Austria.They are different countries.

PrinceThreads: 26 Posts: 826 Joined: Nov 4, 08	Edited by: Prince Dec 20, 08, 18:07 / #
Poles are not Germans. Czechs are not Austrains but both countries had periods in history when where richer than many other european countries.

noimmigration	Dec 20, 08, 18:36 / #
This just goes to show that poland and the poles are simply inferior to us westerners

wildroverThreads: 180 Posts: 8,188 Joined: Jun 7, 07	Dec 20, 08, 19:12 / #
noimmigration: inferior to us westerners hard to think of anything inferior to you....there is more intellect in the things that crawl out of my woodshed.....

PolsonThreads: 15 Posts: 2,812 Joined: May 9, 07	Dec 20, 08, 19:13 / #
Noimmi, it is more a matter of history than being superior or inferior. But you may not know that.