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Poles protest US Stalin memorial plan



1jolaThreads: 33
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  Nov 25, 09, 15:11 /  #
The Polish community in the United States is outraged by a plan to honour Josef Stalin by placing his bust on a pedestal at the National D-Day Memorial in Bedford, Virginia.

According to William McIntosh, the director of the Bradford museum, which is coordinating the project, the Soviet dictator deserves to be acknowledged alongside Winston Churchill and Franklin Delano Roosevelt has he was an ally of the US after Nazi Germany invaded the Soviet Union.

Article from http://www.thenews.pl/international/artykul120452_poles-protest-us-sta lin-memorial-plan.html

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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  Nov 25, 09, 15:16 /  #
1jola:
The Polish community in the United States is outraged by a plan to honour Josef Stalin by placing his bust on a pedestal at the National D-Day Memorial in Bedford, Virginia.

I have a hard time believing this....
1jolaThreads: 33
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Joined: Sep 23, 08
  Nov 25, 09, 15:21 /  #
That Polish community is outraged or that Yanks want to honor their partner? Most Americans think the war started in 1941 and that Germany unfairly attacked poor Soviet Union.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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  Nov 25, 09, 15:27 /  #
That they really want to honor Stalin with a memorial!
If that would be true there would be much more people protest than only the Poles...(at least I hope so!)
1jolaThreads: 33
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  Nov 25, 09, 15:32 /  #
Only in America, as we say.

Saddam Hussein was an ally also in the 1980s. He deserves a statue too.
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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Edited by: Bratwurst Boy   Nov 25, 09, 15:33 /  #
....or the Taliban!

PS: Are there any links to US papers? What do the Amis say?
sjamThreads: 5
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  Nov 25, 09, 17:33 /  #
The idea of having a bust of Stalin for the D-Day memorial is perverse but the rational of the organisers is according to their mission statement that the D-Day memorial is to commemorate all those affecting or affected by the D-Day landings... so this would include Stalin as leader of the USSR, an Allied nation affected by D-Day. But IMO using their criteria it should logically also include a bust of Hitler as the Germans were also profoundly affected by the D-Day landings I would have thought? But I guess this would be equally perverse.
BrutalButcherThreads: 1
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  Nov 25, 09, 17:36 /  #
When will they make a Hitler statue?
Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11
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  Nov 25, 09, 17:47 /  #
sjam:
But IMO using their criteria it should logically also include a bust of Hitler as the Germans were also profoundly affected by the D-Day landings I would have thought?

...actually a quite good argument to show the perversity of that plan!
cheehawThreads: 9
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  Nov 25, 09, 23:35 /  #
Well having lived several years in post-colonial Virginia, I can say, I am not surprised.

But take heart Bedford VA is in the boondocks and most of civilized Virginia has never even heard of the place, much less ever had a desire to drive that direction. And this certainly won't gain the va rednecks anything but more ill-repute.

you should see it out there in the boonies of Virginia.. little shanty towns of really poor people and blacks descended from slaves.
sjamThreads: 5
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Edited by: sjam   Nov 26, 09, 10:37 /  #
The plaque to Stalin's bust will read:

Joseph Stalin
21 December 1879 — 5 March 1953
General Secretary of the Communist Party
In 1922, Joseph Stalin became General Secretary of the Communist Party of the Union of Soviet Socialist Republics and spent the next seven years eliminating fellow revolutionaries. He next eliminated prosperous peasant farmers (Kulaks) as a class by displacing them to proto-gulags, thus precipitating famines that killed untold millions. Stalin’s “Great Terror” (1934-38) tried 50 million Soviet citizens; some 20 million were sent to gulags or executed. He also dispatched police (NKVD) to Mongolia, where tens of thousands died as “Japanese spies.” After entering a nonaggression pact with Hitler in 1939, Stalin invaded Poland, Finland, the Baltics, Bessarabia, and northern Bukovina. Between 1939 and 1949, he deported millions of Ukrainians, Poles, Koreans, Volga Germans, Crimean Tatars, Kalmyks, Chechens, Ingush, Balkars, Karachays, Meskhetian Turks, Finns, Bulgarians, Greeks, Latvians, Lithuanians, Estonians, and Jews.

When Hitler invaded Russia on 21 June 1941, Stalin turned West for help. To keep Hitler busy in the East, Churchill and Roosevelt gave it. An epigram penned by a wag in Britain’s Crown Film Unit exudes grim irony: “Once the Kremlin / Set us tremlin: / Now we’ve a pal in / Stalin.” Stalin repulsed Hitler at the Battle of Stalingrad then went on the offensive. At the Tehran Conference (November 1943), he influenced D-Day’s date and place, reset the borders of Poland, secured a carte blanche at home, and arranged to set up communist governments in Poland,
Czechoslovakia, the Baltics, and Romania.

In memory of the tens of millions who died under Stalin’s rule and in tribute to all whose
valor, fidelity, and sacrifice denied him and his successors victory in the Cold War.
Funded by the Estate of Louise L. Terrell.

So it goes some way to try and mitigate Stalin's inclusion but the memorial founders also present an odd slant to try and connect Stalin with D-Day:

Lesson: Did Russians participate in the fighting on D-Day? No doubt, though the ones in Normandy
were not wearing military uniforms of the allied USSR. Instead they were Soviet POWs Hitler had conscripted
and deployed to defend the Atlantic Wall — and defend it they did, as enemy combatants. The Soviet allies,
of course, were on the Eastern front engaging the first-rank Wehrmacht troops Hitler had redeployed from
France to slow Stalin's drive west.

Here is the link to the document see page 5 onwards:
http://www.dday.org/public/useruploads/file/D-Day%20Fall%2009%20News.p df
Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34
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  Nov 26, 09, 16:14 /  #
Bratwurst Boy:
I have a hard time believing this....

me 2
Bratwurst Boy:
That they really want to honor Stalin with a memorial!

Scandal!!!

Bratwurst Boy:
If that would be true there would be much more people protest than only the Poles...(at least I hope so!)

Yeah that made me think of when in the USA Josef Stalin was promoted as an good leader and the example of Democracy for his people.

Some just don't get it

BB help us bring out the truth! ^^
cheehawThreads: 9
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Joined: Oct 10, 09
Edited by: cheehaw   Nov 26, 09, 16:23 /  #
There is a big push from certain groups in the USA to whitewash history and make communism look good. I am not a Glenn Beck fan but he has a good video showing this here:






TymoteuszThreads: 7
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Edited by: Tymoteusz   Nov 26, 09, 16:28 /  #
cheehaw
Shhhhh! Don't tell them. They think we are headed for socialism...

Well, Stalin (More honestly the Russian people) did the lions share of the work to stop Hitler. I think mention of this is very appropriate. In fact, Not mentioning it would be quite insulting. The question is, how do you create a memorial without making some group mad?
cheehawThreads: 9
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Edited by: cheehaw   Nov 26, 09, 16:30 /  #
Tymoteusz

I think we are already there.. now comes the rewriting of history..

more interesting links from this page

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pYOfNB2igdk
TymoteuszThreads: 7
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  Nov 26, 09, 16:46 /  #
cheehaw
This is easy! We blame the evil capitalists for the fall of the peaceful and prosperous Soviet Union! Those party leaders and such had to go somewhere years ago. They came here! Just like the Nazis escaped to Argentina. Now they control the Democrat party through proxy politicians. Fairly common knowledge amongst the American people. The only bad thing is that it is also recent knowledge. The best quote I heard was, " It's too late to work within the system, but, It's too early to shoot the f*ckers! "
BzibziohThreads: 6
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[Suspended]
  Nov 26, 09, 17:08 /  #
Once I was talking to a group of university students who were protesting Summit of Americas held in Quebec City. I saw Stalin's portrait on one of the posters so I had to ask "Why Stalin?" and one girl told me "He is my hero", so I said "But he was a tyrant and murdered millions of peoples" she said "Oh, he wasn't THAT bad, Bush is worst!". The level of ignorance is scary.
szkotja2007Threads: 38
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Joined: Dec 29, 06
  Nov 26, 09, 17:12 /  #
cheehaw:
more interesting links from this page

Glenn Beck - this is the first time I have heard him. Talk about dumbing down information.
Do people actually watch this rubbish ?
TymoteuszThreads: 7
Posts: 694
Joined: Jul 25, 09
  Nov 26, 09, 18:44 /  #
szkotja2007
szkotja2007:
dumbing down

szkotja2007:
rubbish

Well, I guess this makes your argument irrefutable! -Typical.
szkotja2007Threads: 38
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  Nov 26, 09, 19:37 /  #
Tymoteusz:
makes your argument irrefutable

What argument ?
DiceThreads: 20
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Joined: Nov 27, 07
  Nov 26, 09, 19:58 /  #
1jola:
US Stalin memorial plan

Wait till the Anti-Defamation League or World Jewish Congress find out about it. All the Virginia politicians, both republicans and Democrats can say "goodbye" to their jobs.
BTW, this news is so outrages that I seriously doubt its authenticity. Maybe that website got it from The Onion?
cheehawThreads: 9
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  Nov 27, 09, 03:07 /  #
Dice:
Wait till the Anti-Defamation League or World Jewish Congress find out about it. All the Virginia politicians, both republicans and Democrats can say "goodbye" to their jobs.

I doubt it. I bet they would love it.. them and their bolshevik uncles. Uphold the work of Stalin and you can start shipping americans and everyone else off in box cars to workcamps to help the environment or something, I can think of something.... something..

makes me feel the need to get my grandpa's Ellis Island papers since my family were never slave owners I shouldn't have to pay reparations either.

szkotja2007:
Glenn Beck - this is the first time I have heard him. Talk about dumbing down information.
Do people actually watch this rubbish ?

heh .. but hey for newbies he is a place to start. I used to like him a few years ago myself. He gets paid to do a show, bring in viewers... He offers some good info but cannot be trusted 100% due to the payroll affiliations. took me a while to figure that out I admit... slap..

Tymoteusz:
The best quote I heard was, " It's too late to work within the system, but, It's too early to shoot the f*ckers! "

*!
joepilsudskiThreads: 44
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  Nov 27, 09, 04:58 /  #
I must ask: What is the Bradford Museum?...Never heard of it before...'Uncle Joe' was a homicidal sociopath...But he had a sense of humor at times...My favorite quote from him was when he was asked by some Western reporter about problems with certain people...He say 'Problem?...No man, no problem'.
cheehawThreads: 9
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Joined: Oct 10, 09
  Nov 27, 09, 05:24 /  #
I had never heard of it either.. but I have driven through there numerous times and south west VA, south virginia, south of richmond and then some.. is a dirt park for the most part.. really.. lots of poverty.. here and there some old plantation mansions.. a few nice communities sprinkled through but mostly trailors than anything.. tiny one or 2 room cement block houses.. shacks, people living in them.. the black people still being used for cheap cheap labor.. and poor whites too.. being from New York state I was stunned at the poverty. And lack of attention to it. We never saw it this bad up there. even in the worst parts of Brooklyn, it's much better.. south bronx might compare..

When I lived in VA, I mentioned the economic situation quite a few times to a quite a few people.. I was told repeatedly.. "well, this is the commonwealth.. this is colonial virginia"... pretty much quote unquote. I had to take a 2/3's pay cut to live in VA, and the cost of living is not low.. I loved the people of Richmond, and the churches.. the black people are something there, real nice, the ones I met in church anyway.... they have worked hard, they do ok in Richmond.. but southwards, forget it. And the wages, the pay rates all through VA south of the beltway.. terrible. I was so glad to leave Richmond.

I found these interesting items, amusing myself at youtube this evening





what is with this 'czar' stuff anyway, do you know? I have never heard of any president appointing 'czars'.
NathanThreads: 33
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Joined: Feb 13, 09
  Nov 27, 09, 05:57 /  #
1jola:
That Polish community is outraged or that Yanks want to honor their partner? Most Americans think the war started in 1941 and that Germany unfairly attacked poor Soviet Union.

When did it start? In the early October of 1938 with occupation of Teschen by Poland or rather from the Munich conference itself in September of the same year? I always had difficulty with the start of WWll.
joepilsudskiThreads: 44
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  Nov 28, 09, 02:58 /  #
Nathan:
When did it start? In the early October of 1938 with occupation of Teschen by Poland or rather from the Munich conference itself in September of the same year? I always had difficulty with the start of WWll.

WWII actually started after the signing of the Treaty of Versailles and the Bolshevik takeover in Russia...These events guaranteed a WWII.
mbiernatThreads: 3
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  Nov 29, 09, 21:53 /  #
This is unbelievable.
Marek11111Threads: 49
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  Dec 1, 09, 00:19 /  #
Nathan WWII started in 30/01/1933 Hitler appointed Chancellor of Germany by President Paul von Hindenburg that was beginning after that, 12/03/1933 First Concentration Camp opened at Oranienburg outside Berlin and so it went and Treaty of Versailles did not helped the treaty ignored many problems with territorial disputes.

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