Polish-Hungarian friendship - reality till today or just a phantasmagoria

Genetic kinship
Recent genetic research[1] prove that this pledge has a factual basis. Both Polish and Hungarian populations have the highest frequency of the R1a Y gene in Europe. Two people will have the same Y chromosome marker only if they originated from the same father. This article does not cite any references or sources. ... In human genetics, Haplogroup R1a1 (M17) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup, that is spread across Eurasia. ... The human Y chromosome is one of two sex chromosomes, it contains the genes that cause testis development, thus determining maleness. ... A genetic marker is a known DNA sequences (e. ...

Time of origin
When the mutation originated is still a questionable matter[citation needed] - someplace in time 10,000 years ago. Anyway it is one of the evolutionally youngest mutations in the Y chromosome genealogical tree. More research may solve this question. Y-DNA microsatellites mutate frequently and may be mapped with generational precision. It is surprising to many that such a familiar relationship may be cherished in words for so long, and it shows the potential of population genetics in solving frequently obscured, historical questions.

kabcsiThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 30, 08	Edited by: kabcsi Oct 30, 08, 09:41 / #
I'm hungarian and met a lot of polish people at the university and in international camps. Everyone was friendly, but the most tight relatonships were always tied between hungarian and polish youngs. We have a bunch of historical examples too: 1. In the time of Battle of Mohacs thousands of polish troops disobeyed the order of their king and ran to help the hungarians 2. AFAIK Báthori István is a loved king of poland 'till nowadays 3. In the time of 1848 revolution in Hungary many polish generals helped the hungarian army (for example: Josef Bem) 4. In the WWII hungarians refused to fight against Poland 5. Polish support in 1956 6. On March 12, 2007, Hungary's parliament declared March 23 as the Day of Hungarian-Polish Friendship, with 324 votes in favour, no vote against and no abstention and on March 16, 2007, Polish parliament declared March 23 as the Day of Polish-Hungarian Friendship. What's your opinion about this friendship?

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,756 Joined: Jul 3, 08	Oct 30, 08, 09:46 / #

kabcsiThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 30, 08	Edited by: kabcsi Oct 30, 08, 09:50 / #
Oh, and don't forget the proverb: "Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki" "Lengyel, magyar két jóbarát, együtt harcol s issza borát" "Polish, Hungarian are two good friends, they fight and drink their wine together”

polishgirltx	Edited by: polishgirltx Oct 30, 08, 09:52 / #
i like hungarian goulash, therfore we can be friends... ;)

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,756 Joined: Jul 3, 08	Oct 30, 08, 09:57 / #
Bucharest is a really nice city ;)

SvenskiThreads: 3 Posts: 212 Joined: Mar 20, 08	Oct 30, 08, 09:58 / #
hmm..a ghoul hungry for goulash from Hungary

kabcsiThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 30, 08	Oct 30, 08, 09:59 / #
Budapest is a nice city ;)

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Oct 30, 08, 10:00 / #
kabcsi: Polak, Węgier, dwa bratanki, i do szabli, i do szklanki" yes, just don`t forget that `szabli` (sablja) is Serbian word, same as Visegrad (Vishegrad).... and same as King Matijas himself, Hunyadi Janos (Sibinjanin Janko) and Petefi Sandor (Aleksandar Petrovic), ... who were of Serbian origin and same as Hussar (Gusar) concept began in Serbia, not in Hungary and same as Vatzi street in center of Budapest was in fact Ratzy (Serbian) street formed by Serbian traders, etc, etc... Then, explain to Poles why Hungary promote German interests in the region (Balkan).

McCoyThreads: 46 Posts: 1,756 Joined: Jul 3, 08	Oct 30, 08, 10:01 / #
kabcsi: Budapest is a nice city ;) i've never been to bulgaria ;)

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Oct 30, 08, 10:06 / #
kabcsi: Polish-Hungarian friendship - Cicciolina or Marianna Rokita?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Oct 30, 08, 10:20 / #
kabcsi: Attack against Yugoslavia is an other question. It not reflects the relationship between poles and hungarians. it weakened Slavic South... speaking about Hungarian hostility on Serbians... historicaly it dirrectly weakening Polish flank on the South and opening pass to the Germany which that way cut Polish acces to the Adriatic zone and Black see (traditional sphere of interests of old Polish warlords, Kings and traders). It also cut Russian access to the Adriatic but, its bigger problem for Poland. It is because that situation force Russians to accept German schemes (Germany controls the region, not the Russians or Poles or Serbians). Germany absolutely profit. Poles are forced to retreat without manuverable space. Weaker Serbs, weaker Poles. That`s how it is from the beggining of time. Hungarians only helping to Poles to died in silence.

kabcsiThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 30, 08	Edited by: kabcsi Oct 30, 08, 10:21 / #
southern: Just tell me,where polish troops in Budapest 1956? In 1956 Poles didn't send troops, but they gave blood for the injured and the polish red cross transported about 50 tons of medicament with up to 15 planes to hungary. The polish support was much bigger then the american or any other help! Crow: Hungarians only helping to Poles to died in silence. Hungary didn't have a choice. They widthstood as long as they could. But the pressure was too much. But after this step prime minister Teleki committed suicide, because he couldn't forgive himself for this step. But I believe that Hungary really didn't have a choice!

kabcsiThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 30, 08	Oct 30, 08, 10:32 / #
southern: Are the Hungarians still interested in Transylvania,eastern Slovakia and Vojvodina? Do they like Austria? Some extreme right-winged groups are still interested the former parts of Great Hungary of course. But the majority accepted the unchangeable.... Austria isn't as much "problem" as Romania, because they didn't receive so much territory. So I think even between the right-winged Austria is ok. But this revisionist ideology reflects only some extreme right-winged groups' mentality.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Edited by: Sasha Oct 30, 08, 10:34 / #
:)) No room for Russians in this topic as far as I understand, right? But I'm frankly glad you have a good relationships.

kabcsiThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 30, 08	Oct 30, 08, 10:07 / #
Crow: Then, explain to Poles why Hungary promote German interests in the region (Balkan). I'm not talking about a Balkan-Hungarian friendship... it's about polish-hungarian friendship. Hungary was an ally to Hitler, yet Hungary received more than 100000 Polish refugees after the German invasion and even established schools for Polish children. The Hungarian army also refused to take part in the crushing of the Warsaw Uprising by the German Army. Attack against Yugoslavia is an other question. It not reflects the relationship between poles and hungarians.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Oct 30, 08, 10:18 / #
Just tell me,where polish troops in Budapest 1956?

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Oct 30, 08, 10:26 / #
Are the Hungarians still interested in Transylvania,eastern Slovakia and Vojvodina? Do they like Austria?

kabcsiThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 30, 08	Oct 30, 08, 10:36 / #
Everyone has room in this topic ;) Just write down your opinion, experience about this topic... Or the historical problems

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Oct 30, 08, 10:37 / #
kabcsi: of Great Hungary What is your opinion Crow?Should Great Hungary be a reality? This kabsci sounds like Hungarian.

kabcsiThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 30, 08	Oct 30, 08, 11:54 / #
southern: This kabsci sounds like Hungarian. Yes I'm a hungarian if You mean I speak as a hungarian. And if you're interested about the name Kabcsi, i will tell you that too: Kabcsi came from the hungarian word Kabóca which means a kind of grasshopper, and the formative "-csi" means little something (just like Charles -> little Charlie) This name was given to me by my girlfriend. In hungary if you love someone you often call him/her Kabóca, and my gf put a formative to the end, so this is the history of my nick.

dcb	Oct 30, 08, 12:59 / #
http://www.polishforums.com/pole_hungarian_two_good_friends-34_21686_0 .html

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Oct 30, 08, 13:02 / #
Hungarian brother, I think Poland-Hungary have one of the best relationships which two countries could ever have. We have always respected each other, and have shed blood for each other. The proverb which exists is the only such proverb I can think of in the world, which most of the population in each country can recite. One more interesting fact to add to your list. Genetic kinship Recent genetic research[1] prove that this pledge has a factual basis. Both Polish and Hungarian populations have the highest frequency of the R1a Y gene in Europe. Two people will have the same Y chromosome marker only if they originated from the same father. This article does not cite any references or sources. ... In human genetics, Haplogroup R1a1 (M17) is a Y-chromosome haplogroup, that is spread across Eurasia. ... The human Y chromosome is one of two sex chromosomes, it contains the genes that cause testis development, thus determining maleness. ... A genetic marker is a known DNA sequences (e. ... Time of origin When the mutation originated is still a questionable matter[citation needed] - someplace in time 10,000 years ago. Anyway it is one of the evolutionally youngest mutations in the Y chromosome genealogical tree. More research may solve this question. Y-DNA microsatellites mutate frequently and may be mapped with generational precision. It is surprising to many that such a familiar relationship may be cherished in words for so long, and it shows the potential of population genetics in solving frequently obscured, historical questions. So you see, bracie, that we are not only united in respect and outlook, but we are also blood brothers. This is a very nice video about our Brotherhood. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YJVO6jPaR0

dcb	Edited by: dcb Oct 30, 08, 16:27 / #
Lengyel-Magyar Barátság Party 2007.09.29 Győr V2 Music Club ;) Węgrom - A Magyaroknak

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Oct 31, 08, 10:01 / #
kabcsi: Hungary didn't have a choice. They widthstood as long as they could. But the pressure was too much. But after this step prime minister Teleki committed suicide, because he couldn't forgive himself for this step. But I believe that Hungary really didn't have a choice! i do believe that German pressure was crucial for Hungarian attack on Yugoslavia in WWII. It also contributed to Hungarian involvement during dissolution of Yugoslavia. I won`t even comment 1999 when both (and many others)- Poland and Hungary were forced to took part in NATO bombardement of Yugoslavia. We clearly see today that NATO represent tool of German expansion and EU institution where German, Franch, British, USA interests coordinates with plans of Islamic league. but, constant problem in Hungarian-Serbian and Hungarian-Slovakian situation is also idea about Greater Hungary in the some heads of Hungarian elite It would be much bater that Hungary completely join in Poland (frankly, Hungarians are of Slavic origin just with Hun linguistic influences). After all, territory of today`s Hungary was core of Great Moravia- vast Slavic Kingdom. Polish-Hungarian joint state would for sure prevent implementation of German schemes in the region. That would greately relax political situation. Then, Serbia would be also interested to join what would geo-strategicaly restore political realm of Sarmatia Europae, ancient Baltic-Balkan Danubian line. With Serbia in combination, Polish manuverable space would increase to the maximum. Economies of many former Yugoslav republics are still dependant on Serbian market, Serbian language speaks about 25 mil people in the region. All products produced in Serbia has dirrect acces to the Russian market. Our agriements with Russia provide us also privileged acces to Russian resources, etc, etc. With Poland, Serbia can count on good Polish-Vatican relations and can profit from it. In general, Catholic-Orthodox relations would be improved thanks to our dirrect partnership. On the long run, Germany would become minor player and Poland crucial partner of Vatican`s foreign policy. Only Serbian condition for sure would be- neutrality on current military alliances and strictly independant foreign policy of joint Polish-Hungarian-Serbian [let`s say] economic union. Serbia would also take on itself obligation to provide Russian political support for Polish-Hungarian-Serbian union (confederation). Poland-Hungary would secure that so called west accept all this. Czech Republic, Slovakia, Slovenia, Bulgaria, Macedonia, Montenegro, Croatia, possible even Ukraine, Byelorussia and Baltic states would follow and join us. Opened questions (of all kind) between those who are interested to become members of such eventual confederation should be object of public disscusions so that public could see what is problem. We can even form Confederal Court which would suggests how problems should be solved. this was just my oppinion but many more here could be said If you ask me what is receipt for Poland to become world power and big player, it is scenario described above. Why Hungary wouldn`t support this. Let us all profit, not that always others decide for us.

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	Oct 31, 08, 10:29 / #
'Bucharest is a really lovely city.' I agree, too bad it's not in Hungary--:) Guess you must have meant to type 'Budapest' (he-he)

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Oct 31, 08, 10:44 / #
Crow: Crow Hungarians are NOT Slavic! In fact they get quite offended when compared to Slavs... Crow: Hungarian-Slovakian situation You call this a situation? Under-statement wouldn't you say?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Oct 31, 08, 10:46 / #
ShelleyS: You call this a situation? Under-statement wouldn't you say? explain what`s your point

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Oct 31, 08, 10:49 / #
ShelleyS: Hungarians are NOT Slavic! They have R1a haplotype about 55%. en.wikipedia.org/wiki/R1a

MarekThreads: 4 Posts: 1,120 Joined: Feb 15, 07	Oct 31, 08, 10:59 / #
The 'point' is that calling Hungarians Slavs is rather much like calling Turks Arabs since they live in the same general neck of the woods. Magyars are decendants of Huns (from HUNgarian, get it??-:) who moved across the North Urals into Central Europe and established settlements in what is today called 'Hungary' (until 1918 though, much of what is today Romania, but let's please not drag the failed Trianon Treaty into it!! This is, after all not a Hungarian Forum). The Huns were Asians, not Slavs, much as the Swedes, strictly speaking aren't Slavs either, they're Germanic, yet are perhaps distantly related to the proto-Slavic Rurik. Shelley's point is not such a small one, I'm afraid.

kabcsiThreads: 1 Posts: 11 Joined: Oct 30, 08	Oct 31, 08, 11:14 / #
Crow: Crow Your idea of a Polish-Hungarian-Serbian Union would be never possible. The world-politics will never let such things happen. Besides: our leaders and dumb nationalistic groups of slovakia, romania, serbia and hungary will never support this because of hundred-year hatred. I will gladly see a Great East-European or even a "Europe-Between" (=eastern Europe including the region from Finland to Greece) Union. But I'm afraid this only remain an idealistic dream...