What are Polish-Serbian relations like?

rock:

I really believe that all the Balkan countries were living in peace in Ottoman rule. Of course nobody wants to live under the rule of other country. But after 400 years, how do you think they manage to protect their identity. Even in Bosnia or Albania none of the muslims can speak Turkish. Does it happen like this in the colonies of England, Spain, Portugal, France etc.

I don't want to call all the Serbs disgusting of course. But, they killed 200.000 muslim villagers ( not soldiers ) and raped 20.000 woman. Fanatism about religion is more than any other country. The Serbs took part in these events and the Serbs still hiding Mladic and the Serbs if have chance would do the same things are disgusting. I think, they are not minority in Serbian community.

Meanwhile Croats are not muslim of course. They are catholic.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Sep 23, 08, 14:37 / #
Hmmm.....so....once the "Albos" are ethnically cleansed from Kosovo who then will take over and live there? The Serbs surely not, they rather wandered away during the last centuries...leaving their holy land to others...correct me if I'm wrong!

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 23, 08, 14:50 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Hmmm.....so....once the "Albos" are ethnically cleansed from Kosovo who then will take over and live there? The Serbs surely not, they rather wandered away during the last centuries...leaving their holy land to others...correct me if I'm wrong! you like jokes? biggest joke is German `nation` ahaha hahah hahah muahah mauha muahah mauhaha mauhha mauhha muhaha muahah mauahmauahmauah ahaha hahah haahahah ahaha hahah ahah

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Sep 23, 08, 14:55 / #
Crow: biggest joke is German `nation` Yup! That's why you are talking in every second sentence about the evil west, evil Germany enslaving the Slavs, this world wide conspiracy against the Slavs led of course by the so called Germans/so called false West, right? It's a joke, alright! We are all having fun! :) PS: Did I hit a nerve with my question???

rockThreads: 6 Posts: 1,493 Joined: Jun 13, 08	Sep 23, 08, 15:35 / #
It is proved that Muslims can't live with Serbs. Because for them ''best Muslim is dead Muslim''. Long live Kosovo. I wish Sancak region in Serbia and Bosniaks in Bosna Hercegovina will announce their freedom and states as well. Crow says Albanians turned Kosovo into land of sins and give one example for it. Serbs raped 20.000 Bosniak woman during the war. All the world knows this. Serbs are disgusting. Serbs pray for Bulgaria. If Turkey had a border with Serbia you would see what's real punishment. I believe Turks behaved Serbs better than they deserve during 415 years of Ottoman rule.

SzymonThreads: 1 Posts: 7 Joined: Sep 23, 08	Edited by: Szymon Sep 23, 08, 16:03 / #
Serbs are Russian ally and they stick with Russians.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,958 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Sep 23, 08, 16:58 / #
<div class="quoting">rock: I believe Turks behaved Serbs better than they deserve during 415 years of Ottoman rule.</div> You mean this?

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Edited by: lesser Sep 23, 08, 17:01 / #
Bratwurst Boy: , evil Germany enslaving the Slavs, Please remind me how many times the Germans invaded Serbia in the 20th century? This must be noted in Guinness Records book. :)) rock: Serbs pray for Bulgaria. Do you have any plans? :)

rockThreads: 6 Posts: 1,493 Joined: Jun 13, 08	Sep 23, 08, 17:26 / #
southern: You mean this? Serbs lived in peace in Ottoman rule. No force to change religion, language, race ( Crow proves it ). If wanted assimilation can be realized in 415 years easily. I am proud of my ancestors. Look at Indians. How England effected them. Algerians are half French, African nations etc. lesser: Do you have any plans? :) World watched genocit in Srebrenice. We need plans for the future. If it happens again Serbs will see the hell. My thought is not about attacking, it is about defensing and protecting. No similarity between Turks and Arab mujaas.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,958 Joined: May 17, 07	Sep 23, 08, 18:07 / #
rock: Serbs lived in peace in Ottoman rule Are you kidding?Have you counted how many revolutions by Serbs were suppressed violently by Ottomans?

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Sep 23, 08, 18:52 / #
I will cut this stories about Slavic aliances. Serbs durring cold war were something between west and east they were gaining form this possition. When cold war was over their whole economy has falen on knees ... and Yugolsavia was resolved in brutal way. Serbs durring cold war were very disrespectful (because of their economic statsus) when it came Poles, Czechs, Slovaks, Hungarians and other nations who actualy couldn't be something between east and west. I am not surprised that Crow dreams about new cold war and Serbia balancing between two powers. In this possition Serbs would regain their status.

Patrycja19Threads: 79 Posts: 3,974 Joined: Oct 31, 06	Sep 24, 08, 09:33 / #
Crow: yes, nerve of my pns [i apologize to all ladies who might read this] Crow, ya cant fool us.. lol we saw what ya wrote.. those little asterik doo-hickeys dont hide it lol..

rockThreads: 6 Posts: 1,493 Joined: Jun 13, 08	Sep 24, 08, 13:42 / #
Sasha: Right but I didn't mean croats themselves. I meant Bosniaks who are essentially Slavs (Croats and Serbs) forcibly converted to the Islam. Funny claim. So, why Serbs are still orthodox, croats are catholic ? Belgrad was one of the most important cities of Turks in the Balkans like Budapest. If Ottomans force, all Belgrad citizens have to be muslims. Bosniaks are happy with their religion. They don't think they are relatives of Croats and Serbs and they were not christain before choosing islam. They hate Serbs and don't like Croats. In Mostar, Bosniaks and Croats fight even after Turkish football team beat Croatia in European football championship. Sasha: I bet if I asked you why Mladic should be punished, you wouldn't be able to come up with anything intelligible. :) You've still got a chance. Do you mean Srebrenica is not enough for punishment ?

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 24, 08, 14:18 / #
rock: Funny claim. So, why Serbs are still orthodox, croats are catholic ? Belgrad was one of the most important cities of Turks in the Balkans like Budapest. If Ottomans force, all Belgrad citizens have to be muslims. Don't pretend you don't understand. Do you know who were the most bigoted terrorist who didn't stop killing children in Chechnia? Russians and Ukranians converted to the Islam. Ex-slavs... Bosniaks used to be the one whole with Serbs and Croats. What do you think happened to those of Serbs who were converted or raped? They either went on suicide or were exiled by their fellow-citizens. They were not happy, now they are... since human is a very adaptable system. But the bygone crime is still a crime. Do you know that they even have a name for converted Serbs... "poturcenec"... and the fact they don't like each other is a Turkish guilt. rock: They hate Serbs and don't like Croats. I know it's very convenient for Turks. But that's a consequence of your yoke. rock: Do you mean Srebrenica is not enough for punishment ? Firstly, Mladic himself is a military man, he took down the orders. Secondly, he fought for his own People and the land... Srebrenica is a mixed stuff. It's at least silly to blame Srbs in everything that happened there therefore thirdly others should be punished for that as well. You don't have the full notion.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Sep 24, 08, 21:02 / #
Story how Serbs have been fooled by Russians: Russians bought for small per cent of its value energetic sector in Serbia and promised support for Serbs (Energetic Sector for Kosovo). After acquisition Russians have forgoten about Serbs what is more they happily use situation Serbia as an excuse (Georgia). Folowing this logic Russians knew that Serbs are going to be sacraficed but used Serbs hopes for support and bought energetic sector for peanuts. Russians acting like "rooten" west ? International bankers look on Russia with respect. lol

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 24, 08, 00:23 / #
rock: Serbs lived in peace in Ottoman rule. No force to change religion, language, race ( Crow proves it ). If wanted assimilation can be realized in 415 years easily. I am proud of my ancestors. You can be proud of your ancestors as many times as you want, but I think you're not entitled to call Serbs disgusting and blatantly lie about that they lived in peace under your yoke. Have you heard of the right of the "first night"? Why do you think some Croats are muslims? Thanks to you guys... thanks to you... Your will to further blame Serbs sounds opportunistic.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 24, 08, 09:22 / #
Bratwurst Boy: PS: Did I hit a nerve with my question??? yes, nerve of my pns [i apologize to all ladies who might read this]

rockThreads: 6 Posts: 1,493 Joined: Jun 13, 08	Sep 24, 08, 11:34 / #
I really believe that all the Balkan countries were living in peace in Ottoman rule. Of course nobody wants to live under the rule of other country. But after 400 years, how do you think they manage to protect their identity. Even in Bosnia or Albania none of the muslims can speak Turkish. Does it happen like this in the colonies of England, Spain, Portugal, France etc. I don't want to call all the Serbs disgusting of course. But, they killed 200.000 muslim villagers ( not soldiers ) and raped 20.000 woman. Fanatism about religion is more than any other country. The Serbs took part in these events and the Serbs still hiding Mladic and the Serbs if have chance would do the same things are disgusting. I think, they are not minority in Serbian community. Meanwhile Croats are not muslim of course. They are catholic.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 24, 08, 12:05 / #
Patrycja19: Crow, ya cant fool us.. lol we saw what ya wrote.. those little asterik doo-hickeys dont hide it lol.. ha, its not a such a big deal that you sow my penis you know how people say- i`ll show you mine, you show me your rock: I really believe that all the Balkan countries were living in peace in Ottoman rule. Of course nobody wants to live under the rule of other country. But after 400 years, how do you think they manage to protect their identity. Even in Bosnia or Albania none of the muslims can speak Turkish. Does it happen like this in the colonies of England, Spain, Portugal, France etc. I don't want to call all the Serbs disgusting of course. But, they killed 200.000 muslim villagers ( not soldiers ) and raped 20.000 woman. Fanatism about religion is more than any other country. The Serbs took part in these events and the Serbs still hiding Mladic and the Serbs if have chance would do the same things are disgusting. I think, they are not minority in Serbian community. Meanwhile Croats are not muslim of course. They are catholic. please come later you see that i talk to that girl,... situation is promising. Leave me alone, moronu. Go found some of your ugly mujaheedine friends for entertainment Bože, Bože kakva budala [God, God, what a fool]

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 24, 08, 12:38 / #
rock: I really believe that all the Balkan countries were living in peace in Ottoman rule No wonder that you believe so. The average Rus stongly believes his land is saint and they didn't rape or kill civilians while were in Germany, they didn't pillaged there, they've always treated Poles well etc. So do you. rock: But, they killed 200.000 muslim villagers ( not soldiers ) and raped 20.000 woman. Wow... what a precise figures. Too bad they're grossly exaggerated. The info you're trying to feed me is a typical west rubbish which I've heard for 1000s times. rock: Fanatism about religion is more than any other country That's not true. The Orthodox religion itself is incomparable in terms of worshipping with the Islam and you should agree here they're far from being Shahid-kamikaze to blow up themselves somewhere in Hague. At that point it's good to mention that the number of Serbs killed, raped or expelled from their own land is far more. rock: The Serbs took part in these events and the Serbs still hiding Mladic and the Serbs if have chance would do the same things are disgusting Bla-bla-bla... I bet if I asked you why Mladic should be punished, you wouldn't be able to come up with anything intelligible. :) You've still got a chance. rock: Meanwhile Croats are not muslim of course. They are catholic. Right but I didn't mean croats themselves. I meant Bosniaks who are essentially Slavs (Croats and Serbs) forcibly converted to the Islam. rock: Even in Bosnia or Albania none of the muslims can speak Turkish The point they don't speak Turkish means nothing. They don't have to. Many gipsies who live in Russia don't speak Romanian or any language but Russian.

rockThreads: 6 Posts: 1,493 Joined: Jun 13, 08	Sep 24, 08, 15:13 / #
Sasha: Bosniaks used to be the one whole with Serbs and Croats. No, they were not. Don't you know anything about Bogomils or pretend you don't know. Bosniaks were bogomils. They were against church. They were not christains before Ottoman rule. During Ottoman rule they choose islam and voluntarily become muslim. quote=Sasha] I know it's very convenient for Turks. But that's a consequence of your yoke.[/quote] No, Turks prefer muslim and christain live together with peace. Turks like Tito because he managed this at least for some time.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,958 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Sep 24, 08, 17:57 / #
rock: Bosniaks were bogomils. They were against church. They were not christains Bogomils were christians.What are you talking about?They believed in Jesus,not in Mohameth.They were a deviation in orthodoxy like the Aryanists,the Nestorians,the one-nature of God supporters etc.There were such deviations in catholic church too. rock: During Ottoman rule they choose islam and voluntarily become muslim. Yes,in order not to pay taxes.Muslims did not pay taxes,Christians did.Why do you not tell the whole truth? rock: Belgrad was one of the most important cities of Turks in the Balkans like Budapest. Budapest is not in Balkans. rock: If Ottomans force, all Belgrad citizens have to be muslims. They did not have to become muslims because the city was surrendered to Ottomans.If they had resisted,the Turks would have the right(by muslim law) to sell them as slaves or expell them and destroy the city.The other option would be that they would become muslims.You don't tell the whole story.The same happened with Constantinopol.It probably surrendered to Ottomans(secretly),that is why Ottomans did not expell the christian population or force to islamization. rock: I really believe that all the Balkan countries were living in peace in Ottoman rule I really don't believe Balkan countries were living in peace in Ottoman rule.In Greece for example there took place over 100 revolutions during the 400 years of turkish occupation and all were suppressed with extreme violence and brutal methods. rock: Even in Bosnia or Albania none of the muslims can speak Turkish. Does it happen like this in the colonies of England, Spain, Portugal, France etc. They don't speak turkish because they don't need it.They spoke turkish when they needed it.The colonies of England,Spain,France speak foreign languages because they need them. rock: But, they killed 200.000 muslim villagers ( not soldiers ) and raped 20.000 woman Ridiculous.Which religion openly supports killing of civilians?Christianism or Islam?What does the Quran say about Jihad? As for rapes,this is laugh stuff.I refer you to the relevant comments by Crow.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 24, 08, 20:47 / #
Well said.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 24, 08, 23:15 / #
Lukasz: Russians bought for small per cent of its value energetic sector in Serbia and promised support for Serbs (Energetic Sector for Kosovo). After acquisition Russians have forgoten about Serbs what is more they happily use situation Serbia as an excuse (Georgia). I didn't understand that. Where did they [Russians] promised to support Serbs? Have they forgotten?

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Sep 24, 08, 23:56 / #
Sasha: I didn't understand that. Where did they [Russians] promised to support Serbs? Have they forgotten? Sashka my post was full of sarcasm. I have seen comments in Russian press. Just after the deal Russian press anounced "Energetic sector for Kosovo". You used Serbs situation to make great deal after it you left Serbs. I am pointing out some facts. Now Serbs are trying to change the deal but it is not so easy. By the way Rock has made some vaild points as well. Tito was positive character in Balkans history. Especialy when we look on what have happened after his death.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Sep 25, 08, 01:35 / #
Lukasz: Just after the deal Russian press anounced "Energetic sector for Kosovo". You used Serbs situation to make great deal after it you left Serbs Lukasz, I don't exclude the deal were made with some implication of Kosovo, but I don't think we left them with that. We've done our best, however it wasn't enough. In its turn current Serbian government is trying to "kill two hares with the one shot": join EU keeping good relationship with the RF. Lukasz: Tito was positive character in Balkans history Tito was a mixed-blessing person. If one want to judge on how positive he was, that would strongly depend on who you ask. If you ask Serbs eight out of ten will say he was a bastard who simply supressed Serbian self-identification and albanized their native lands. At the times of his governing the nationality "jugoslavian" appeared. On the other hand he managed to make absolutely different cultures live together. Anyway what happened to Kosovo is to the large extent consequence of Tito's policy.

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Sep 25, 08, 02:28 / #
Sasha: Tito was a mixed-blessing person. If one want to judge on how positive he was, that would strongly depend on who you ask. If you ask Serbs eight out of ten will say he was a bastard who simply supressed Serbian self-identification and albanized their native lands. At the times of his governing the nationality "jugoslavian" appeared. On the other hand he managed to make absolutely different cultures live together. Anyway what happened to Kosovo is to the large extent consequence of Tito's policy. Tito gave for Yugoslavia prosperity. From the one hand he didn't let your soldiers to enter their country, they had many contacts with west. They traded a lot and were relatively rich "socialistic" country, many Polish traveled to Yugoslavia to buy goods and bring it to Poland it was result of Tito's policy of being more opened on west and mentioned by me balancing. From the other hand many Polish "tourists" who traded in Yugoslavia reported that there is threat of ethnic cleanising in the future. Sasha: Lukasz, I don't exclude the deal were made with some implication of Kosovo, but I don't think we left them with that. We've done our best, however it wasn't enough. In its turn current Serbian government is trying to "kill two hares with the one shot": join EU keeping good relationship with the RF. You gave hope for Serbs and when you made this deal you were concious that you are not able or rather willing to provide promised help. In the same moment you exploatated Serbs strong believe in Russia and made great bussiness deal. Serbs choices: Serbs surrounded by EU, isolated and waiting for glory Russia. Very good proposal. After the deal with energetic sector I'd say - next "honest" proposal. I am pointing out Russian hypocrisy.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Edited by: Sasha Sep 25, 08, 02:47 / #
Lukasz: many Polish traveled to Yugoslavia So did Russians and at that point I agree. But it's still one side of the same coin, the other side is that the only defeated party in the game were Serbs. Lukasz: to provide promised help What do you mean? There was nothing special promised. Russia didn't withdraw her veto right and stood by her tacit promise. I'm convinced Serbs didn't cherished vain hopes expecting wonder to happen. Afterall Russia helped them with humanitarian supplies. So... I have no clue on what "help" you meant. We're not the US to dictate our will on the Humankind and to pay out missile shiled wherever, which is good. UPD: Lukasz: I am pointing out Russian hypocrisy. In general it can be said that politics=hypocrisy, cause everybody studies his own interests. It's important not to be too hypocritic. Russia was not. Was it?

LukaszThreads: 73 Posts: 2,396 Joined: Sep 1, 07	Edited by: Lukasz Sep 25, 08, 03:29 / #
Sasha: So did Russians and at that point I agree. But it's still one side of the same coin, the other side is that the only defeated party in the game were Serbs.Lukasz: Serbs commited war crimes, so did others in this war. All war criminals should be sentenced. Serbs are the defeated party in this game not because of Tito policy but because of Serbs anti-nazi resistance durring WWII. Unfortunately I am sure that it was main reason why some sides in this conflict got support and some were guilty at the begining of the conflict. It wasn't Tito. Sasha: What do you mean? There was nothing special promised. Russia didn't withdraw her veto right and stood by her tacit promise. I'm convinced Serbs didn't cherished vain hopes expecting wonder to happen. Afterall Russia helped them with humanitarian supplies. So... I have no clue on what "help" you meant. We're not the US to dictate our will on the Humankind and to pay out missile shiled wherever, which is good. Unfortunately your best friend in europe was very active in this region. If you honestly wanted to help Serbs you could knock German doors and everybody know that you are able to influence this country. I am sure you would be much more successful. Again, Serbs are not so important for Russia ... Sasha: In general it can be said that politics=hypocrisy, cause everybody studies his own interests. It's important not to be too hypocritic. Russia was not. Was it? If we are machiavelists ... we can agree that politics=hypocrisy. I consider Russian behaviour as very hypocritic. Not only in Serbia. You know we were members of eastern block and we watched with confusion Soviet 5th column in west ... you know people talking about good Russia and bad USA. In case of Serbs there was hypocricy on Russian side.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Sep 25, 08, 05:57 / #
Lukasz: Serbs are the defeated party in this game not because of Tito policy but because of Serbs anti-nazi resistance durring WWII. Umm....are you doing a "Crow" on us now???

DekameronThreads: 1 Posts: 289 Joined: Sep 11, 08	Sep 25, 08, 09:07 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Umm....are you doing a "Crow" on us now??? Be quiet you anti-slavic german conspirator, i bet you're reporting back to your SS headquarters after each post ! When i realised Crow is completely serious he became my idol. Lukasz: Serbs commited war crimes, so did others in this war. All war criminals should be sentenced. Serbs are the defeated party in this game not because of Tito policy but because of Serbs anti-nazi resistance durring WWII. Unfortunately I am sure that it was main reason why some sides in this conflict got support and some were guilty at the begining of the conflict. Sire please enlighten me where in the frackin hell is the logic behind your statement ? Serbs lost Kosovo because they were the main and most active side in the merry genocide heaven that the Yugoslavia became and as such gave a moral mandate to **** on them. IF Serbs did not murder left right and center than NATO would never go beyond mediation as it is NATO pointed at mass graves and went "STFU and do what we say or we bomb you even more".