What are Polish-Serbian relations like?

Demode wrote:

Dear Crow,

NATO intents to from a Kosovo army after the breakaway province proclaims independence. "Formation of the future Kosovo army numbering a 2500 personnel can become one of NATO's functions in the Albanian-populated territory," La Libre Belgique newspaper reports. The mission will be officially requested after Kosovo announces independence. "Another side effect of Kosovo's independence will be Macedonia's bid for NATO," the edition says. Meanwhile, British SkyNews reports that Kosovo will proclaim independence February 17. "Some 100 states are ready to recognize Kosovo's independence," Prime Minister Hashim Thaci said in Pristina.

Thousand of newspapers analyses, TV shows, books, were written, shown, presented during Nineties, all over the world, about new species of the planet-the Serbs.

The new evil, demons, baby killers, destructors of public libraries, historical archives, ethnic cleansers, tyrants the Serbs, prevent the peaceful world of today to develop. That is why, this virus has to be erased. That is why this cowardly aggression against Serbian people, ("First war of the United Europe," as French Jack Lang told on TV, mid-May 1999).

Serbian people will never forget the war of 1999. These quotations are here, dear friends, to show an intellectual preparation for the war against Serbs.These quotations are little monument of shame for the intellectuals of the (mostly) developed world, who made NATO aggression possible, and even wanted.

Crow wrote:

i welcome you in this thread with this song of Sindidun`s children...
Orthodox Celts - Star Of The County Down

Deise 07 wrote:

Why are they singing an Irish song? Im genuinely confused!

Deise 07 wrote:

Im genuinely confused!

miranda wrote:

here is the explanation;)

Deise 07 wrote:

This documentary gives a good insight into the mindset of modern western consumer society. If you really want to understand why this so-called "free-market" society is in decline you or anybody else who is interested should watch this video, especially Part 3 which is attached here.

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6111922724894802811

lesser wrote:

I don't know what it has to do with Polish-Serbian relations but I tend to doubt that you watched whole part 3. They praised Reagan's politics, he was very liberal minded guy. But this is off-topic...

US troops engaged in pitched battles Tuesday with local Serbs in the village of Sevce. Sevce is located in Serbia proper—beyond the border of the predominantly ethnic Albanian province of Kosovo, which became a virtual NATO protectorate following the military bombardment of Serbia last year—and near the Montenegro border.

A combined force of US military police and Polish troops entered the village to search the home of a man they had arrested for possession of illegal weapons. They were trapped after villagers pulled logs across the only road out.

During Serbia’s European qualification game against Poland at home in Belgrade the small number of attendance witnessed an unusual conflict between the two groups of fans. About 1800 Polish fans traveled to Belgrade to see the game, there were a very small number of home fans compared to normality. Poland started the game in a good manner taking the lead 2 to 0 before Serbia eventually tied the game. What was more surprising for the home fans than their team coming back was the provocation coming from the Polish fans. During the standing 2-2 the Polish fans started chanting “Kosovo, Kosovo” at their Serbian counterpart. The few Serbs attending the game became notably upset and provoked by the chanting and answered by turning the Polish fans their back and booing. Chanting “Kosovo, Kosovo” as a provocation towards the Serbian fans is however nothing new for the Serbian team, earlier during the qualifications Finnish fans in Helsinki sang the same thing throughout the game turning the Serbs furious.

isthatu wrote:

lol,love it,see,when the whole world hates you,you must be doing somthing wrong :) Just wondering,in a world wide pole who would be tops for hate,USA or Serbia...hhmmm?

Crow wrote:

because of stupid Russian mistakes

ConstantineK wrote:

Gavrilo Princip !!!! Where are you ???!!!

The house where Gavrilo Princip lived in Sarajevo was destroyed during the First World War. After the war it became a museum in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia was conquered by Germany in 1941 and Sarajevo became part of fascist Croatia. The Croatian fascists destroyed the house again. The Yugoslav communists under the Tito established a communist Yugoslavia in 1944. The house of Gavrilo Princip became a museum again and there was another museum dedicated to him within the city of Sarajevo. During the Yugoslav Wars of the 1990s, the house of Gavrilo Princip was destroyed a third time, and it has not been rebuilt yet. The Gavrilo Princip museum has been turned into a museum dedicated to archduke Ferdinand and the Habsburg monarchy.

ISTANBUL -- The media in Turkey say Ankara will recognize Kosovo within 48 hours of its declaration of secession.

Today's Zeman was quoted by Beta as reporting that the Turkish government sources said while that country will not be the first to recognize Kosovo, it will "definitely be in the group of states" to make that recognition fast.

Crow wrote:

Turkey will recognize Kosovo within 48 hrs"

The Polish foreign ministry has not confirmed rumors that Poland plans to be among the first countries to recognize Kosovo's independence.

southern wrote:

Crow wrote:
Turkey will recognize Kosovo within 48 hrs"

Let's allow Serbia recognize Kurdistan then.

According to the New York Times, both the United States and Germany would recognize Kosovo as an independent country if it declares independence from Serbia.

Croatian President Stjepan Mesic said on Thursday that his country would follow most of the EU member states to recognize Kosovo because Croatia wishes to join the bloc, the Croatian Hina news agency reported.

BRUSSELS -- The EU member states will make their individual decisions regarding the recognition of Kosovo.

At least six EU countries, the agency said, will not recognize Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence. They are Cyprus, Greece, Slovakia, Spain, Bulgaria and Romania.

TOKYO, Feb. 15-(Kyodo), Japan intends not to immediately recognize Kosovo after the breakaway province declares independence from Serbia as early as Sunday because Tokyo wants to maintain good relations with Serbia and does not want to anger Russia, Serbia's ally, government sources said Friday.

Bratwurst Boy wrote:

When 90 percent Poles would be ruled by 10 percent Germans for centuries would you also admit it's naturally german country and the Germans would of course have every right also further to rule over the Poles?
Don't you see how bigot all that is? Especially as Poles so love to talk about freedom and independence???
I thought ESPECIALLY the Poles could understand the Kossovans (or whatever they are called).

Filios1 wrote:

haha, ahh ja, I wish all Germans were always as "disinterested" as you!

Bratwurst Boy wrote:

Believe me, they are! (At least in this Kossovo question). :)

Bratwurst Boy wrote:

Mr Miliband will make Britain’s position clear after a meeting of the EU General Affairs Council on Monday. The three EU states expected to reject recognition of Kosovo are: Cyprus, Slovakia and Romania. France, Germany, Italy and possibly Poland are expected to join Britain with instant recognition, but others, including Spain, Greece and The Netherlands, are likely to delay a decision. The Dutch say they have to get approval from their parliament.

Bratwurst Boy wrote:

What makes it a part of Serbia Greg?

When 90 percent ... ruled by 10 percent

Filios1 wrote:

Good points there, Bratwurst. I have to say I agree. This would surely be hypocritical to criticize the new state of Kossovo.

Bratwurst Boy wrote:

Give up ..., you lost

Crow wrote:

First of all, Albanians were populated on Kosovo during Turkish occupation of Southern Balkan Srbian regions. Then, Turks used Albanians as tool against Serbs (many Serbs were killed or expeled from Kosovo).

Crow wrote:

Then, Serbs liberated Kosovo from Turks

Crow wrote:

During WWII, Kosovo was under Italian occupation

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 3, 08, 05:07 / #
Demode wrote: Dear Crow, :) thank you man, for link and for nice words i welcome you in this thread with this song of Sindidun`s children... Orthodox Celts - Star Of The County Down Surrender life to Slavia, soul to Christ, and honor to nobody!

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 4, 08, 13:02 / #
Let`s make this discussion interesting I would now give you few quotations/statements in connection with Serbs, given from some German and some Polish politicians/sources during Civil War in former Yugoslavia. Later, I would give you Net source. Just, trust me for now So, were/are Serbs that evil that they united German and Polish politicians to condemn them or German politicians/sources just played one of their usual historic role (spreading anti-Serbian war propaganda) and some Polish politicians just chooses to obey to German politicians? Let`s investigate, shell we? Here it goes. One German politician said... KLAUS KINKEL: "The Serbs should be brought to their knees!" (a statement given on May 27th 1992.) "Yes, heroism! We have already succeeded in rendering Yugoslavia obedient: on April 7th 1941in a blitzkrieg against Yugoslavia we have destroyed apart of Belgrade in an undertake named "The Court Punishes". In light of that tradition we see the participation in AWACS flights over Bosnia and in NATO mission... The People´s Society knows how important peace is for Germany. We have proved this twice in this century. Heroism is today, as 50 years ago, a virtue of our soldiers. We are here again!" (Military review "Bundesvehr 2000.",1994) Now, one politician of Polish origin... "The war was waged for the territories and conquests as well as for the settling a couple of centuries old scores. Serbian hegemony and the international cowardice without a precedent were in question. A man shudders at the mere thought of the proportions of all this." (GEOGE ZARUTSKY, an expert for Central Europe in "Freedom House", Washington Post) one more, German/Austrian... "The bandit bosses as Aidid in Somalia and Milosevic in Serbia, have the same ideology and act in the same way. If the West loses in former Yugoslavia that will be a victory over, not only the totalitarian government in Belgrade, but over all bandits in the world. (OTTO VON HABSBOURG, in a Spanish journal ABC, May 1994.) Now, Polish source... "The Serbs only understand the language of force." (ZYCIE WARSZAWY, a Polish paper, February 1994.) Then, German, again... "Besides, The Bosnian Serbs have always been and always will be just a gang of bandits and killers." (JOCHAN FRITZ, the manager of The International Press Institute and the owner of the DIE PRESSE from Vienna) Polish... "Ethnical cleansing is not the consequence of war but its reason d´étre." (TADEUS MAZOVIECKY) German... Germany share with you the joy of the military success and pays you the compliments in this war. I must say that even the analysts who know more then myself, could not have foreseen such a swift and glorious action." (Dr.ENDER, German ambassador in Zagreb, on Croatian radio during his visit to Knin, August 1995.) Polish, again... "We cannot assist in the transportation of bodies. We will not assist people in their bizarre rituals." (KRIS JANOWSKI, spokesman for the UNHCR, commenting Bosnia Serbs leaving Sarajevo and bearing the coffins of their loved ones in winter 1996.) German... "The horse farm in Lipik, where widely known Lipitzaner horses have been grown, is now out of its white horses...When the Serbs overtook the place they brought them out of the stables and killed them one by one..." (GAUDENC BAUMAN, in TAGBLADT) Polish source... In one of his essays, David Reef wrote that Serbs kill Bosniaks as some sort of subhuman. They will not give up their attempts to commit genocide because they haven't been punished for this genocide or for the numerous genocides before this one... (TADESUSZ MAZOWIECKI, interview to the Muslim newspaper) German... STEFAN SCHWARZ, CDU DEPUTY IN BUNDESTAG: "Experiments on humans are being conducted again, like in the Third Reich under Mengele. Serb doctors implanted dog embryos in Bosnian women." (In "Die Tagesthemen", janauary 1993.) Polish... TADEUSZ MAZOWIECKI: "The ethnic cleansing was not a result of the war, but rather its goal. In many areas the Serbian goal had already been accomplished: by killings, beatings, rape, demolition of homes and threats. The Moslems and the Croats who remained in Serb-controlled territory, lived in fear." (On "Voice of AMERICA", 14th November 1994.) Then, German... HERTA MULLER: "A ghastly nationalistic self-image has been created, like the map of Greater Serbia which Milosevic kept in his drawer for some time now, and which has covered graveyards for three years. Milosevic and Karadzic, two faces that frighten us afresh every day we see them, two mass murderers, who merely thanks to their position as warlords have managed to acquire "prestige" with a population whose reason has been eclipsed, which applies to itself the definition of a race in order to be able to feel like a nation". (In Frankfurter Allgemeine Zeitung, 24 april 1994.) NOTE: There is some sum up of negative statements about Serbs given in Polish media. Fortunately, majority of Polish media, politicians and sources were rather neutral (by Serbian perception) on situation in case with Civil War in former Yugoslavia, some even suggested that Serbs could be right.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 9, 08, 13:57 / #
Poles please don`t take part in this... NATO TO FORM KOSOVO ARMY Published on February 09, 2008 http://www.armtown.com/news/en/pan/20080209/24813/ NATO intents to from a Kosovo army after the breakaway province proclaims independence. "Formation of the future Kosovo army numbering a 2500 personnel can become one of NATO's functions in the Albanian-populated territory," La Libre Belgique newspaper reports. The mission will be officially requested after Kosovo announces independence. "Another side effect of Kosovo's independence will be Macedonia's bid for NATO," the edition says. Meanwhile, British SkyNews reports that Kosovo will proclaim independence February 17. "Some 100 states are ready to recognize Kosovo's independence," Prime Minister Hashim Thaci said in Pristina. In case with previous post [in case with comments of some Polish and German politicians/sources]... A SMALL ANTHOLOGY OF RACISM AND CHAUVINISM AT THE END OF MILLENIUM (from a book in preparation, publisher JUGOISTOK) 03/11/2000, by Zoran Petrovic http://www.freerepublic.com/forum/a38ca890f59f9.htm Thousand of newspapers analyses, TV shows, books, were written, shown, presented during Nineties, all over the world, about new species of the planet-the Serbs. The new evil, demons, baby killers, destructors of public libraries, historical archives, ethnic cleansers, tyrants the Serbs, prevent the peaceful world of today to develop. That is why, this virus has to be erased. That is why this cowardly aggression against Serbian people, ("First war of the United Europe," as French Jack Lang told on TV, mid-May 1999). Serbian people will never forget the war of 1999. These quotations are here, dear friends, to show an intellectual preparation for the war against Serbs.These quotations are little monument of shame for the intellectuals of the (mostly) developed world, who made NATO aggression possible, and even wanted.

Deise 07Threads: 4 Posts: 91 Joined: Jul 30, 07	Feb 10, 08, 18:33 / #
Crow wrote: i welcome you in this thread with this song of Sindidun`s children... Orthodox Celts - Star Of The County Down Are this band Serbs? Why are they singing an Irish song? Im genuinely confused!

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Feb 10, 08, 18:47 / #
Deise 07 wrote: Why are they singing an Irish song? Im genuinely confused! hehe, you aren't alone..

miranda	Edited by: miranda Feb 10, 08, 18:52 / #
Deise 07 wrote: Im genuinely confused! URL here is the explanation;)

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Feb 10, 08, 19:00 / #
miranda wrote: here is the explanation;) Thank you Miranda : )

Deise 07Threads: 4 Posts: 91 Joined: Jul 30, 07	Feb 10, 08, 20:08 / #
Hello Crow - Seeing as you posted some Irish music I feel I should give you something back which you might be interested in. I came across this BBC documentary about US and British politics recently. It charts the rise of populism in the west in general under the guise of the so-called "free market", based on the teachings of Sigmund Freud, and more particularly, his nephew, who invented the industry of public relations in the US. This is Part 4. At one point (42mins) the documentary reveals how American foreign policy during the 90s was being formulated. The interviewee refers to bombing of Bosnia by the US but I presume he means Serbia. Maybe you have heard this before, maybe not. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1122532358497501036 This documentary gives a good insight into the mindset of modern western consumer society. If you really want to understand why this so-called "free-market" society is in decline you or anybody else who is interested should watch this video, especially Part 3 which is attached here. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6111922724894802811

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Feb 11, 08, 03:44 / #
Deise 07 wrote: This documentary gives a good insight into the mindset of modern western consumer society. If you really want to understand why this so-called "free-market" society is in decline you or anybody else who is interested should watch this video, especially Part 3 which is attached here. http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-6111922724894802811 I don't know what it has to do with Polish-Serbian relations but I tend to doubt that you watched whole part 3. They praised Reagan's politics, he was very liberal minded guy. But this is off-topic...

Deise 07Threads: 4 Posts: 91 Joined: Jul 30, 07	Edited by: Deise 07 Feb 11, 08, 07:46 / #
lesser wrote: I don't know what it has to do with Polish-Serbian relations but I tend to doubt that you watched whole part 3. They praised Reagan's politics, he was very liberal minded guy. But this is off-topic... I just followed the link that Crow posted on the Spanish Civil War thread. The discussion had turned to the issue of the war in the former Yugoslavia. The link I have provided above at (Part 4 - 42 mins) gives an insight into how foreign policy was being formulated in the USA during the 90s and refers specifically to the decision taken to bomb what is described in the video as Bosnia. Part 3 is relevant to part 4 as it outlines how the so called "free-market" has manipulated people in the west into acting in a certain way, based on psycho-analytical methods pioneered by Freud. This form of manipulation of people by the those involved at the top end of the so called "free-market" culminated in a form of democracy which resulted in decisions such as the bombing of the former Yugoslavia being based on little more than vague research into the "feelings" of housewives in middle America. It is therefore relevant to the previous discussion which had developed with regard to the war in the former Yugoslavia, but I agree, has little to do with Polish-Serb relations. Perhaps the mods could find a relevant home for it. Perhaps also they or Crow could close the link to this thread from the Spanish Civil war discussion.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Feb 16, 08, 08:38 / #
The Ukraine and Belarus need our support but do not forget Georgia. The meeting, coupled with vocal warnings in Russia's Parliament that it would react strongly to a declaration of independence by Kosovo, threatened to push the Kremlin and the West into a fresh and potentially volatile standoff over the status of separatist territories in Georgia. http://www.nytimes.com/2008/02/16/world/europe/16breakaway.html?

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Feb 16, 08, 12:31 / #
Kosovo is a part of Serbia. Only UN security council can change the borders and Russians won't let that happen.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 11, 08, 11:39 / #
Scandal! Ehhh, i wanted to eat my PC when sow this on the Net. First what was on my mind is ``good that Serbian media didn`t gave publicity to this sad event``... but it would stay remembered as dark day when official Poland sent troops to invade Serbian territory, in order to satisfy her obligations in NATO. Like that it isn`t enough that NATO bombarded Serbian civilians and occupied Serbian Kosovo (no matter that Polish role on Kosovo can be described as positive from the aspect of local Serbs). No, Racowie didn't`t deserve this from Poland. NATO can`t be that worth Provocative raid into Serbia leads to clash between US troops and civilians By Chris Marsden 7 April 2000 http://www.wsws.org/articles/2000/apr2000/koso-a07.shtml US troops engaged in pitched battles Tuesday with local Serbs in the village of Sevce. Sevce is located in Serbia proper—beyond the border of the predominantly ethnic Albanian province of Kosovo, which became a virtual NATO protectorate following the military bombardment of Serbia last year—and near the Montenegro border. A combined force of US military police and Polish troops entered the village to search the home of a man they had arrested for possession of illegal weapons. They were trapped after villagers pulled logs across the only road out. One more idiotic news. Didn`t heard for that in Serbian public media (Albanian source- they are of course happy to confirm that Poles srew Serbs)... Polish provocation in Belgrade Tuesday, 27 November 2007 http://www.newkosovareport.com/20071127228/Culture-and-Sports/Polish-p rovocation-in-Belgrade.html During Serbia’s European qualification game against Poland at home in Belgrade the small number of attendance witnessed an unusual conflict between the two groups of fans. About 1800 Polish fans traveled to Belgrade to see the game, there were a very small number of home fans compared to normality. Poland started the game in a good manner taking the lead 2 to 0 before Serbia eventually tied the game. What was more surprising for the home fans than their team coming back was the provocation coming from the Polish fans. During the standing 2-2 the Polish fans started chanting “Kosovo, Kosovo” at their Serbian counterpart. The few Serbs attending the game became notably upset and provoked by the chanting and answered by turning the Polish fans their back and booing. Chanting “Kosovo, Kosovo” as a provocation towards the Serbian fans is however nothing new for the Serbian team, earlier during the qualifications Finnish fans in Helsinki sang the same thing throughout the game turning the Serbs furious. Hey people, Slavdom is in deeper sh** then i thought

isthatuThreads: 4 Posts: 1,627 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Feb 11, 08, 11:43 / #
lol,love it,see,when the whole world hates you,you must be doing somthing wrong :) Just wondering,in a world wide pole who would be tops for hate,USA or Serbia...hhmmm?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 11, 08, 11:47 / #
isthatu wrote: lol,love it,see,when the whole world hates you,you must be doing somthing wrong :) Just wondering,in a world wide pole who would be tops for hate,USA or Serbia...hhmmm? yes, i believe that you are happy. Britain holding Poland for `horns`. and, Russian elite can be `happy` too see how Russian hegemonic politics greatly failed among Western Slavs and how, among else, because of stupid Russian mistakes official Poland falling into treachery of Slavdom.

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Feb 11, 08, 12:15 / #
Crow wrote: because of stupid Russian mistakes They weren't as stupid as you think Crow. They were cold, and calculated..

ConstantineKThreads: 35 Posts: 1,949 Joined: May 10, 07	Feb 14, 08, 06:57 / #
Gavrilo Princip !!!! Where are you ???!!!

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 14, 08, 16:21 / #
ConstantineK wrote: Gavrilo Princip !!!! Where are you ???!!! he was tortured in jail and then he died. At least he died on Slavic ground in Czeska in Terezin jail This poem Gavrilo wrote, with spoon, on the wall of jail, before he dies "Sporo se vreme vuce, [time goes slowly] Sve je danas k'o i juce [today is same, as was yesterday] I sutra se isto sprema. [tomorrow would be the same, too] Al' pravo je rekao pre [but, truth was said...] Zerajic soko sivi [...by Zarajic, grey falcon] Ko zeli da umre [who wants to die] On neka zivi, [let he live] A ko zeli da zivi [but who want to live] On neka mre"! [let he died!] - Princip to the prison governor while being moved to another prison... "There is no need to carry me to another prison. My life is already ebbing away. I suggest that you nail me to a cross and burn me alive. My flaming body will be a torch to light my Serbian people and all Slavs on their path to freedom." See this Gavrilo Princip http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gavrilo_Princip Fate of the Gavrilo Princip museums The house where Gavrilo Princip lived in Sarajevo was destroyed during the First World War. After the war it became a museum in the Kingdom of Yugoslavia. Yugoslavia was conquered by Germany in 1941 and Sarajevo became part of fascist Croatia. The Croatian fascists destroyed the house again. The Yugoslav communists under the Tito established a communist Yugoslavia in 1944. The house of Gavrilo Princip became a museum again and there was another museum dedicated to him within the city of Sarajevo. During the Yugoslav Wars of the 1990s, the house of Gavrilo Princip was destroyed a third time, and it has not been rebuilt yet. The Gavrilo Princip museum has been turned into a museum dedicated to archduke Ferdinand and the Habsburg monarchy. Isn`t it example how winners punished Serbs who didn`t obey? Isn`t it? Seams that German players in the region won

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 16, 08, 08:12 / #
Poles, Balkan Serbs need your help now. This is serious and much above all religius differences among Slavs, you should know that. Slavic borders are endangered by hostile foreigners. That`s the very essence of Kosovo issue, as always. Here is what Poles can do: - organize public protests against destruction of Serbian state, in Poland and everywhere where Poles live. Demand respect of Internationaly established order and treties between coutries, garanted by EU. - urge, via Polish connections in Catholic Church . Prevent that Vatican support separation of Kosovo - in short... do whatevery you can to support Serbs- your Racowie God bless Poland! Godd bless Serbia! Protect Slavs, Christ- our Lord! Remind yourself Poles! In the honest name of Sobieski, don`t turn your heads from us! Look who hurry to be first to recognize separation of Kosovo... "Turkey will recognize Kosovo within 48 hrs" 16 February 2008 \| 12:46 \| Source: B92, Beta http://www.b92.net/eng/news/world-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=16&na v_id=47748 ISTANBUL -- The media in Turkey say Ankara will recognize Kosovo within 48 hours of its declaration of secession. Today's Zeman was quoted by Beta as reporting that the Turkish government sources said while that country will not be the first to recognize Kosovo, it will "definitely be in the group of states" to make that recognition fast.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Feb 16, 08, 08:36 / #
Crow wrote: Turkey will recognize Kosovo within 48 hrs" Let's allow Serbia recognize Kurdistan then. What different could be expected from Turkey?In fact Albanias never wanted to separate from Ottoman Empire.They voted to stay within Turkey after WW1 but Italy pressed them to be independant.(It had its plans for the region). Kosovo became independant of Ottoman Empire due to serbian fighters not due to albanian ottoman cooperators.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 16, 08, 12:20 / #
My God, what would Poland decide?! I hope that Polish diplomacy see German trap... Rumors about change of Poland's stand on Kosovo unconfirmed 11:16, February 16, 2008 http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90853/6355214.html The Polish foreign ministry has not confirmed rumors that Poland plans to be among the first countries to recognize Kosovo's independence. southern wrote: Crow wrote: Turkey will recognize Kosovo within 48 hrs" Let's allow Serbia recognize Kurdistan then. i agree. Too long Serbs and Russians reatreated. I think that we now must retaliate As a response on agressive Turkish act, Serbia and Russia should recognize Kurdistan as an independent state and demand that the Turks halt its occupation. I am absolutely sure that Bulgaria would follow and support us. Germany, on the edge of triumph... U.S. and Germany Would Recognize Kosovo http://geography.about.com/b/2008/01/20/us-and-germany-would-recognize -kosovo.htm According to the New York Times, both the United States and Germany would recognize Kosovo as an independent country if it declares independence from Serbia. NOTE- Croatia would recognize Kosovo, instead to stay out of obviously conflict situation Croatia, Macedonia, BiH divergent on Kosovo policy 16:16, February 15, 2008 http://english.people.com.cn/90001/90777/90853/6355069.html Croatian President Stjepan Mesic said on Thursday that his country would follow most of the EU member states to recognize Kosovo because Croatia wishes to join the bloc, the Croatian Hina news agency reported. EU does not have united position on Kosovo... EU and Kosovo recognition: Individual decisions 16 February 2008 \| 11:49 -> 16:48 \| Source: B92 http://www.b92.net/eng/news/politics-article.php?yyyy=2008&mm=02&dd=16 &nav_id=47745 BRUSSELS -- The EU member states will make their individual decisions regarding the recognition of Kosovo. At least six EU countries, the agency said, will not recognize Kosovo's unilateral declaration of independence. They are Cyprus, Greece, Slovakia, Spain, Bulgaria and Romania. Japan not to recognize Kosovo February 15, 2008 7:16 AM http://www.serbianna.com/news/2008/01352.shtml TOKYO, Feb. 15-(Kyodo), Japan intends not to immediately recognize Kosovo after the breakaway province declares independence from Serbia as early as Sunday because Tokyo wants to maintain good relations with Serbia and does not want to anger Russia, Serbia's ally, government sources said Friday.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Feb 16, 08, 12:34 / #
What makes it a part of Serbia Greg? When 90 percent Poles would be ruled by 10 percent Germans for centuries would you also admit it's naturally german country and the Germans would of course have every right also further to rule over the Poles? Don't you see how bigot all that is? Especially as Poles so love to talk about freedom and independence??? I thought ESPECIALLY the Poles could understand the Kossovans (or whatever they are called). Or is it because they are muslims? I'm surely not a friend of muzzies but this shouldn't be a religious or ethnic case as in "we christian slavs against reason and common sense!" Oh and isn't it interesting that in THIS case Poles are friends with Russia again? Why do you think you need that Anti-missile shield when you are so chum with each other... PS: Russia or the UN will do nothing! The independence will be declared tomorrow and the US and the EU will recognize them, the rest is already history...

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Feb 16, 08, 12:51 / #
Bratwurst Boy wrote: When 90 percent Poles would be ruled by 10 percent Germans for centuries would you also admit it's naturally german country and the Germans would of course have every right also further to rule over the Poles? Don't you see how bigot all that is? Especially as Poles so love to talk about freedom and independence??? I thought ESPECIALLY the Poles could understand the Kossovans (or whatever they are called). Good points there, Bratwurst. I have to say I agree. This would surely be hypocritical to criticize the new state of Kossovo. However, perhaps some of the underlying issues are what leaves many people with bad tastes in their mouthes. You cannot really compare Poland with Kossovo, as Poland was a nation of their own for so many years, and when they were divided up between Austria, Germany and Russia, they still had that taste of democracy. They wanted everything that was taken away from them. Kossovo is like a fruit fly, they came from nowhere. It is good Russia and Poland finally agree on something. P.S Ja, Rußland und Polen in diesem situatiom ist hilflos

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Edited by: Bratwurst Boy Feb 16, 08, 12:59 / #
All nation states were a "fruit fly" (great image here btw.) :) at one point in their history. For Germany it was as late as 1871. That shouldn't be a reason.... I can fully understand the geopolitical reasons of Russia of wanting to have control over what they percieve as their "backyard" but I don't get the Poles.... Russia would be against Polands independence as they are now against Kossovo..but you agree with them! Na ja...kann mir ja eigentlich alles egal sein!

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Edited by: Filios1 Feb 16, 08, 13:08 / #
haha, ahh ja, I wish all Germans were always as "disinterested" as you! Tusk has some kind of agenda with the Russians. He is trying to impress them by siding with them on this issue. He is attempting to bend over backwards for Germany, Russia AND the U.S, which is not possible. It is true that Russia would be against Polands independence, hehe, and they were, but I guess what is done, is done, and now they are pretending to be friends.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Feb 16, 08, 13:10 / #
Filios1 wrote: haha, ahh ja, I wish all Germans were always as "disinterested" as you! Believe me, they are! (At least in this Kossovo question). :) Will the "official" Poland recognize the new state?

Filios1Threads: 15 Posts: 1,953 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Feb 16, 08, 13:14 / #
Bratwurst Boy wrote: Believe me, they are! (At least in this Kossovo question). :) Yes, this is true :) I just read this, where it states that Poland may join Germany, Italy, and France as countries who instantly recognize Kossovo as a state, which I now don't understand. Other countries like Greece and the Netherlands will delay their announcment. I don't know how reliable this source is: http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/world/europe/article3376887.ece Bratwurst Boy wrote: Mr Miliband will make Britain’s position clear after a meeting of the EU General Affairs Council on Monday. The three EU states expected to reject recognition of Kosovo are: Cyprus, Slovakia and Romania. France, Germany, Italy and possibly Poland are expected to join Britain with instant recognition, but others, including Spain, Greece and The Netherlands, are likely to delay a decision. The Dutch say they have to get approval from their parliament.

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Feb 16, 08, 13:16 / #
We will see what will happen so or so...

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Feb 16, 08, 14:35 / #
Bratwurst Boy wrote: What makes it a part of Serbia Greg? When 90 percent ... ruled by 10 percent Just a moment, please First of all, Albanians were populated on Kosovo during Turkish occupation of Southern Balkan Serbian regions. Then, Turks used Albanians as tool against Serbs (many Serbs were killed or expeled from Kosovo). Then, Serbs liberated Kosovo from Turks and let Albanians to stay. To underline, ethnic balance between Kosovo- Metohija Serbs and Albanians before WWII existed. During WWII, Kosovo was under Italian occupation and Itallians also used Albanians against Serbs (many Serbs were masacred or expled from Kosovo by Alb.). After, WWII just some Serbs were able to return on Kosovo during communist dictature (for `peace in house` reasons). Still, ethnic balance existed even after WWII but then, due to much batter life conditions in Yugoslavia/Serbia then in Albania, many Albanians from Albania escaped from Albania and settled on Kosovo- illegaly. Ethnic balance finnaly crashed in the favour of Albanians but, still great number of Serbs lived on Kosovo-Metohija. In 1980 Albanian first time rebelled, in order to separate form Yugoslavia. Clashed with federal police and army... Then, when Yugoslav Civil War started they in great masses were voluteeers who faight side by side with Arabic and Bosnian Mujaheedines and Croatian ustashe. They rebelled again on Kosovo and situation escalates in period 1997-1999 when NATO openly intervened on the behalf of Albanians, atacked us. Many Serbs were killed by NATO during bombardment, killed due to attacks of Albanians/mujaheedines. Then after, many Serbs were massacred and ethnicaly cleanced by Albanians after Yugoslav army and Serbian police reatreated (according to threties with NATO!), from Kosovo-Metohija. NATO didn`t protect them. In the same time, in front of NATO and with NATO logistics many Alabanians- citizens of Albania were populated on Kosovo-Metohija (same as Arabic mujaheedines were populated in Bosnia). Ethnic balance was finaly absolutely destroyed on Kosovo-Metohija in favour of Albanians. So, Bratworst- German boy, seams to me that situation in case with Kosovo population, isn`t black and white. It`s obvious that ethnic balance between Serbs nad Albanians was finaly destroyed due to NATO militarely intervention. No need to further comment. Conclusion is obvious Filios1 wrote: Good points there, Bratwurst. I have to say I agree. This would surely be hypocritical to criticize the new state of Kossovo. i elaborated problem. Read above Bratwurst Boy wrote: Give up ..., you lost we shell see! i see free Kurdistan, free Lusatia, free Serb Republic in Bosnia, etc, etc, etc.... plus Kosovo would stay Serbia Germany would learn not to push Slavs. You made mistake (as usualy in your violant history), first destroying Yugoslavia and now you want to deal with Serbia. You would pay and it is clear and it is simple as that.

southernThreads: 116 Posts: 10,949 Joined: May 17, 07	Edited by: southern Feb 16, 08, 15:07 / #
Crow wrote: First of all, Albanians were populated on Kosovo during Turkish occupation of Southern Balkan Srbian regions. Then, Turks used Albanians as tool against Serbs (many Serbs were killed or expeled from Kosovo). Turks did everywhere the same.They used Albanians as crush force.When they wanted to suppress any revolution by balkan nations which suffered from the backward medieval brutal turkish rule,which stopped progress in Balkans for 400 years,the Albanians were there to help.Since they were considered to be the best,most obedient soldiers of ottoman empire,they were given huge regions in exchange,one of them Kosovo.They appeared in many regions of Balkan in this time,always as turkish force to help the turkish settlers and governors. The region was serbian before being occupied by Ottomans. Crow wrote: Then, Serbs liberated Kosovo from Turks Exactly.In Balkan wars 1912-1913 when Serbia,Greece and Bulgaria liberated the Balkans from Turks definetely.Balkan wars a very important event in balkan history which the West still hates. Kosovo became de facto province of Serbia.The Albanians fought with turkish army against Serbia.They wanted to remain united with Turkey in Ottoman Empire and Albania was formed due to pressure from Italy in 1913 while there were greek and serbian troops.Even as late as 1919 the Albanians voted to become part of Turkey but USA and Italy prevented that. Crow wrote: During WWII, Kosovo was under Italian occupation Yes,and Albanians supported the axis with their hearts.They expelled hundreds of thousands of Serbs from Kosovo.They were never punished for that due to result of WW2 and Komintern decisions. If there were not Hodza and albanian partizan movement,the Albanians in Kosovo would face the fate of ustashi who enjoyed a great time in Austria and Slovenia by serbian partizans.