Putin has been able to exploit nostalgia for Soviet "greatness"

Sasha:

UPD: Firstly, most of people are either not so interested in politics or don't really need freedom of speech. "Freedom" or "right" is only important if you know how to use it. Unless you know you need it like a hole in the head. Secondly, if you call american media free then I'm a supreme pontiff. Thirdly... back to Poles... why don't you guys solve you own problems and mind your own business? Missile shield was the most reckless move in your new history. Did your "freedom" help you to resist bsh!tting of your gov? Nope. Then do you really need it [freedom]?
Finally, the major criterion for people is their personal material wellbeing. With all my dislike towards putin, he's done it better than others. On the last elections walking to the polling station I met an old woman living in the neighbourhood. I asked her who was she planning to vote for. She said for putin, then I asked why... her response was "you see... I'm the WW2 veteran at eltsyn's precidency I got 3000 roubles (100$) pension now I've got 16 000 roubles (~640$) and it gets 15% higher annually". I had no more question and couldn't blame this woman for her choice. There're lots of people like her in Russia who haven't seen their salaries for half a year at eltsyn's... Loco I would like to see you speaking about freedom after at least one week with no food.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 26, 08, 09:13 / #
History of Poland and Russia has lead for a strong stance on recent actions in Georgia. This draft touch's on the past and present actions. Flirting with Stalin "While 1917 saw a cultural flowering in Russia, the post-Soviet intelligentsia has failed to articulate a liberal vision and produced only shallow art. Little wonder that Putin has been able to exploit nostalgia for Soviet "greatness" Arkady Ostrovsky "The Kremlin and the KGB—now renamed the FSB and recovering much of its lost power—were deadly serious. To be sure, demand for a serious tone did exist. But the sad fact is that this demand was met not by the liberal intelligentsia, but by the ideologues of Putin's regime. As Russian troops moved into Georgia, Russian television presenters talked with straight faces and straight voices about the hand of the west behind Georgia's attack on its separatist region of South Ossetia." http://www.prospect-magazine.co.uk/article_details.php?id=10356

loco polacoThreads: 3 Posts: 421 Joined: Aug 5, 08	Sep 26, 08, 09:37 / #
I HATE PUTIN AND I THINK RUSSIANS ARE STUPID TO BE GOING ALONG WITH HIS TRIP. Please post in lower case otherwise you're shouting.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 26, 08, 09:50 / #
loco polaco: I THINK RUSSIANS ARE STUPID TO BE GOING ALONG WITH HIS TRIP. What choice do they really have?

DekameronThreads: 1 Posts: 289 Joined: Sep 11, 08	Sep 26, 08, 10:03 / #
celinski: What choice do they really have? The goverment is the synthesis of the people, Russians are while very cultured not very civilized.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Sep 26, 08, 10:29 / #
Dekameron: Russians are while very cultured not very civilized. It seems every time someone seeks to change the politics they are arrested, killed or vanish. Seems the uncivilized are rewarded and paid high wages.

loco polacoThreads: 3 Posts: 421 Joined: Aug 5, 08	Edited by: loco polaco Sep 26, 08, 10:30 / #
loco polaco: Please post in lower case otherwise you're shouting. you got a rule about that yet? btw. please get over it. No rule so far but does there have to be? Most people would tell you it's politeness not to type in capital letters on a forum. celinski: What choice do they really have? they can change things if they really want to. they'd have to start with kicking putin and his goons out and actually electing someone who isn't so domeneering. they shouldn't stand for the whitewashed press and all the other things the old commies are pulloing over them.

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Sep 26, 08, 15:53 / #
celinski: It seems every time someone seeks to change the politics they are arrested, killed or vanish. Seems the uncivilized are rewarded and paid high wages. In Europe and America people at power are more civilized. They simply block access to mainstream media to all their opponents. I also don't understand why Kremlin is so stubborn with this outdated strategy.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Sep 26, 08, 21:37 / #
You are all very foolish in your views of Putin...Putin has been a great RUSSIAN leader, the best of the past 100 years...He is not a communist, he has restored respect and honor for the Russian Orthodox church, he has straightened out the Russian economy, and he has done what he can to make life better for ordinary Russians...Why do you hate him?...Compare his acheivements with George W. Bush, Tony Blair, Kozcynski, Merkel, Sarkozy, anyone...He is the best of the lot...And he faces MANY enemies, who seek to again reduce the Russians to the level of 'kulaks' and serfs, and want to steal the resources and rights of the Russian people...You all remind me of the fools here in the US, some of whom still believe George Bush is an 'American' and some who believe the bull **** artists Obama and McCain offer any hope...America is now, through the stupidity and foolishness of the average American and their refusal to face the reality of the gangster nature of their 'public servants' and 'banksters', thoroughly ruined as the America most of us knew and loved...In fact, only a 'Putin like' president could lead America out of the mess it's in now.

Wahldo	Edited by: Wahldo Sep 26, 08, 22:05 / #
..and Putin would be a good leader for the US how? Eradicating free press? He's a good leader for "them". I respect him. He's not a yokel. They've come a long way.

z_dariusThreads: 22 Posts: 5,091 Joined: Oct 18, 07	Sep 26, 08, 22:24 / #
Wahldo: and Putin would be a good leader for the US how? Eradicating free press? Nah, screw the press. He would scoop Standard Oil like he did Yukos

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Sep 27, 08, 03:14 / #
Putin is decisive, Medvedev will merely carry out his instructions. He plays the political game wonderfully well. He also serves as a check on US hegemony. The incursion into Georgia showed that they were not afraid to incur the wrath of certain powers. Putin is a strategist, one who loves calculated risk. He is from the no1 chess nation in the world.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Edited by: Administrator Oct 9, 08, 06:32 / #
Seeing as how Putin is writing his own history for education alterations, he needs to control the movie media next to spread his version. "Putin Promises Moviemakers Billions" At least 4.3 billion rubles per year will be allocated annually to support the Russian film industry, Prime Minister Vladimir Putin promised today at a meeting on that subject in St. Petersburg. It was decided to allot at least 2 billion rubles for those purposes immediately. The decision was made in light of the need to form values that correspond to the interests of society and the strategic interests of the country. http://www.kommersant.com/page.asp?id=-13360

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Oct 10, 08, 07:46 / #
joepilsudski: Some things that happened in the past, like Katyn, were the work of many evil hands, not Putin's... How the past is remembered is very much connected to the one that feeds information as truth from a place of power. If Putin were not altering the school books to pretty up Stalin it would not be such an issue. Or maybe if a few Russians from Russia verbally confronted Putin's historical memory. Sorry but IMO leaving "Katyn" and lies of the past are asking for history to repeat itself.

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Oct 11, 08, 07:39 / #
Joe even though I can't thoroughly share your notion on putin's personality I will anyway say I agree with you, just because I generally like the way you think. No matter if putin will turn out the worst scab or a nice chap... I against the background of some other comments agree with you. Thanks. 2loco: mak is harmful while taken intravenously.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Sep 27, 08, 02:22 / #
Wahldo: ..and Putin would be a good leader for the US how? Eradicating free press? He's a good leader for "them". I respect him. He's not a yokel. They've come a long way. Going after Jewish/Khazar media magnate/gangster Berezovsky?...Berezovsky is 'free press'?...A good leader for 'them'?...Are you a Khazar?...Come to the US...We have a 'free press' that you would love...the 'Khazarian Free Press'.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Oct 9, 08, 21:46 / #
Putin has been able to exploit nostalgia for Soviet "greatness" The title of the thread could be something that come out of the 'controlled' Western press...Read between the lines with the 'controlled'...Putin has no nostalgia for the Soviet system...Remember he worked in it: in fact, he started as a desk clerk for the KGB in East Germany, and he wasn't happy with what he saw...Putin is a Russian...If you don't like Russians, or want a war with them, well that is a form of insanity...Some things that happened in the past, like Katyn, were the work of many evil hands, not Putin's...Time to move on.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Oct 11, 08, 00:04 / #
There will be no repeat if the Polish remain strong, aware and independent...You confuse alliances with the US with Polish independence...You are a 'cyber warrior' for the Polish people, and make many good points, but you have your blind spots......Sto Lat

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Edited by: celinski Oct 11, 08, 07:24 / #
joepilsudski: Polish remain strong, aware and independent Is this not what all people should be. Or were you joking? "but you have your blind spots" please point them out?

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Edited by: Sasha Oct 11, 08, 08:19 / #
UPD: Firstly, most of people are either not so interested in politics or don't really need freedom of speech. "Freedom" or "right" is only important if you know how to use it. Unless you know you need it like a hole in the head. Secondly, if you call american media free then I'm a supreme pontiff. Thirdly... back to Poles... why don't you guys solve you own problems and mind your own business? Missile shield was the most reckless move in your new history. Did your "freedom" help you to resist bsh!tting of your gov? Nope. Then do you really need it [freedom]? Finally, the major criterion for people is their personal material wellbeing. With all my dislike towards putin, he's done it better than others. On the last elections walking to the polling station I met an old woman living in the neighbourhood. I asked her who was she planning to vote for. She said for putin, then I asked why... her response was "you see... I'm the WW2 veteran at eltsyn's precidency I got 3000 roubles (100$) pension now I've got 16 000 roubles (~640$) and it gets 15% higher annually". I had no more question and couldn't blame this woman for her choice. There're lots of people like her in Russia who haven't seen their salaries for half a year at eltsyn's... Loco I would like to see you speaking about freedom after at least one week with no food.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Oct 11, 08, 08:39 / #
Sasha: I would like to see you speaking about freedom after at least one week with no food. So Putin buys votes. LOL Vote for me or no food?

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Oct 11, 08, 08:49 / #
celinski: So Putin buys votes. LOL Vote for me or no food? I don't mind speaking in futile manner but I thought we were talking seriously. :) So why don't you want to talk about american informless media or let's say... your trillionth external debt that you're not going to pay out... or let's talk about victims of "democratic" regime?

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Oct 11, 08, 08:51 / #
Sasha: or let's talk about victims of "democratic" regime? Sorry I did not see that thread, I was looking at "Putin has been able to exploit nostalgia for Soviet "greatness"

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Oct 11, 08, 08:57 / #
celinski: Sorry I did not see that thread, I was looking at "Putin has been able to exploit nostalgia for Soviet "greatness" No problem. You still have a chance to create it.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Oct 11, 08, 11:29 / #
celinski: but you have your blind spots" please point them out? You hate Russians and refuse to understand that the Russia of today is not the Soviet Union...You are obsessed with actions of the Red Army in WWII, including Katyn...That was bad, but consider what the Allies did to Dresden and other German cities...Consider what the Germans did to ethinc 'minorities' when they invaded the Soviet Union (and Poland)...Consider what the USA did to the Japanese people at Hiroshima and Nagasaki...Tell me which was the worst evil? Sasha: UPD: Firstly, most of people are either not so interested in politics or don't really need freedom of speech. "Freedom" or "right" is only important if you know how to use it. Unless you know you need it like a hole in the head. Secondly, if you call american media free then I'm a supreme pontiff. Thirdly... back to Poles... why don't you guys solve you own problems and mind your own business? Missile shield was the most reckless move in your new history. Did your "freedom" help you to resist bsh!tting of your gov? Nope. Then do you really need it [freedom]? Finally, the major criterion for people is their personal material wellbeing. With all my dislike towards putin, he's done it better than others. On the last elections walking to the polling station I met an old woman living in the neighbourhood. I asked her who was she planning to vote for. She said for putin, then I asked why... her response was "you see... I'm the WW2 veteran at eltsyn's precidency I got 3000 roubles (100$) pension now I've got 16 000 roubles (~640$) and it gets 15% higher annually". I had no more question and couldn't blame this woman for her choice. There're lots of people like her in Russia who haven't seen their salaries for half a year at eltsyn's... Loco I would like to see you speaking about freedom after at least one week with no food. Very, very good points...And yes: just compare Putin with Eltsyn, and ask the average Russian what they think.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Oct 11, 08, 11:37 / #
Good points Joe. Furthermore, it's not like all Russians were completely independent thinkers who took it upon themselves to kill Polish officers. It was a STATE policy, an initiative of Stalin's. As for the atomic bombs, well, that was largely a retaliatory measure for sth that could've been averted. More and more sources are coming forward which point to the US govt having forewarning of this assault at Pearl Harbour but doing nothing. I don't know what REALLY happened but there is plausible and decent evidence to support the above conclusion. Also, more pertinent to the thread is the idea that people should make up their own minds. Exploiting nostalgia is hardly a capital crime. Questioning people can dismiss the glorification of what the likes of Stalin did.

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Oct 11, 08, 11:47 / #
Seanus: Also, more pertinent to the thread is the idea that people should make up their own minds. Exploiting nostalgia is hardly a capital crime. Questioning people can dismiss the glorification of what the likes of Stalin did. I am certainly no expert on Russia...Most of what I know, I have learned from books, although I did study the Russian language in school...90% of the 'Russians' in my city are Jewish, and they have a different mind set than Russians...I also have listened to 'Voice of Russia' (formerly 'Radio Moscow') for about 20 years, and if you listen to the programming now, in 2008, the content is very different from what it used to be...You have programs lke 'The Christian Message from Moscow', many programs devoted to Russian history, much music (mostly classical, but some amazing Russian jazz ensembles), and a lot of folklore...Plus the always excellent 'Moscow Mailbag'...Is this programming just nostalgia?...I think not...Rather, after the 'burying' of true Russian culture and history during the Commnist years, the Russians are becoming re-aquainted with their own rich cultural tradition, and feelng good about themselves...How can this be bad?...And, when they talk about Stalin, the talk is almost 100% negative...And one last thing: Voice of Russia can be picked up on short-wave, with a good signal, about 3/4 of the year...In ten years, I have only been able to pick of Polish Radio about 2 or 3 times...Most short-wave has shifted to the Internet, but I can't even get Radio Poland on the net very often....BBC used to be the very best on short-wave, but now they are completely o the Internet.

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Edited by: lesser Oct 11, 08, 11:48 / #
Sasha: Missile shield was the most reckless move in your new history. Did your "freedom" help you to resist bsh!tting of your gov? Nope. Then do you really need it [freedom]? Maxim of every state should be "as much freedom as possible, as much coercion as necessary". How people will be different from other animals if only food would be on their horizon? Of course demands of people should depend from character of state which happened to occupy their country. I would advice tactic of little steps, so successful in political intrigues on the so called 'west'. Obviously democracy guarantee nothing, this is totalitarian system itself. Only this liberal element (so called 'liberal democracy') make this system somehow livable. Today political establishment has this 'liberalism' on target. This is absolutely possible for a dictator to provide more personal freedom.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Oct 11, 08, 11:53 / #
Nice Maxim lesser, I agree with it. Am I a socialist now?

SashaThreads: 2 Posts: 1,597 Joined: Apr 19, 08	Oct 11, 08, 13:52 / #
lesser: How people will be different from other animals if only food would be on their horizon? I didn't want to say food was the only thing one needed but this at least imprudent to speak about "freedom" which essentially nobody ever seen whilst one has nothing to eat. Now we have... but it may take a lot to make a further step. I personally want to see the future of our country in true liberal blossom but it's only my will. If I at once don't take into consideration other's people opinion can I be called a follower of liberal ideas? I guess no.

celinskiThreads: 83 Posts: 2,800 Joined: Nov 14, 07	Oct 11, 08, 15:10 / #
joepilsudski: You hate Russians and refuse to understand that the Russia of today is not the Soviet Union... I do not hate Russian's. I ask that the records be released from Russian files that hold them and that Russian's do not glorify "Stalin's" actions.