Turkey, Russia and their place in Europe?

Quoting: Matyjasz, Post #13

Quoting: LoneStranger, Post #1
Turkey has always been very much involved in European history. They claim to be European... and they do have a part of their land in Europe.

Russia is 80% in Asia and 20% in Europe. Russia has always been more active with Asia than Europe (relatively). They play more important roles in Asia, and attend all their major conferences.... is always in their affairs....and all its major (meaningful) partners and neighbours are Asian. However... its history with Europe is nevertheless very old and recognised.

The important thing here isn't their history link to Europe but their current status. In my opinion Turkey's government maybe becoming western, but vast majority of it's people aren't. Perfect example is their German Diaspora. As for Russia, I don't think they even want to access EU. That would mean starting to listen to it's peoples voices. Why would Putin want that?

LoneStranger	Jan 26, 07, 14:46 / #
These two countries are always very interesting to many minds. Turkey has always been very much involved in European history. They claim to be European... and they do have a part of their land in Europe. Russia is 80% in Asia and 20% in Europe. Russia has always been more active with Asia than Europe (relatively). They play more important roles in Asia, and attend all their major conferences.... is always in their affairs....and all its major (meaningful) partners and neighbours are Asian. However... its history with Europe is nevertheless very old and recognised. So what you all think.....where are they ....and where should they be really be called from?... Opinions? :P

LoneStranger	Jan 26, 07, 14:56 / #
Russia seeks to become a member of EAS. (East Asia Summit) Go To : answers.com/topic/east-asia-summit It is interesting if it becomes now.

KowalskiThreads: 12 Posts: 619 Joined: Sep 13, 06	Jan 26, 07, 14:59 / #
I'm for Turkey to be recognized and accepted as European state. They would be perhaps on periphery of Europe but still. As for Russia I'd build a 8 feet wall and wait 20 years to melt them down i. e. let the Ruskies determine whether they are for democracy or kingdom (tsarism???) These guys can't figure it out and need more time. Turks are OK IMHO although I know how much **** they are getting from everywhere.

globetrotterThreads: 4 Posts: 129 Joined: Jan 8, 07	Jan 26, 07, 15:02 / #
Quoting: LoneStranger, Post #1 Russia is 80% in Asia and 20% in Europe. Are we talking about Russia or the CIS here?

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,202 Joined: Jan 4, 07	Jan 26, 07, 15:11 / #
I think etihter russia or turkey should be members to the European family. What good have they done to Europe? spreading communism and islamism to Europe.....

i_love_detroitThreads: 1 Posts: 92 Joined: Nov 13, 06	Jan 26, 07, 15:20 / #
What do you mean by the European family? The EU? If so Russia is definitely not ready for that kind of comitment. They need to understand that having a kind of oligarhy they have right now is not good for economy, and is profitable only for mafia, and some rich Moscowians. Turkey have also many thinks to consider. They need to admit to some obvious crimes they've done in past, as for example killing ormians in 1917 (not sure of date). Also I am not sure whether the influence of their huge country would be positive on the old Europe.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 26, 07, 15:27 / #
Quoting: LoneStranger, Post #1 Russia is 80% in Asia and 20% in Europe. But vast majority of people live in a European part.

miranda	Jan 26, 07, 17:14 / #
Quoting: Kowalski, Post #3 I'm for Turkey to be recognized and accepted as European state. They would be perhaps on periphery of Europe but still. As for Russia I'd build a 8 feet wall and wait 20 years to melt them down i. e. let the Ruskies determine whether they are for democracy or kingdom (tsarism???) that's a good one

esra84	Jan 26, 07, 18:41 / #
Quoting: David_18, Post #5 I think etihter russia or turkey should be members to the European family. What good have they done to Europe? spreading communism and islamism to Europe..... spreading islamism?! what r you talkin about?! muslim people, never force people to convert them.. even in Quran its not allowed to force people.. it says dont force but offer islam.. and nothing is wrong about it!!.. so think twice before u write something. cos what u're saying is totally wrong!!!

David_18Threads: 111 Posts: 1,202 Joined: Jan 4, 07	Jan 26, 07, 20:50 / #
Ok then... Can you explain for me what JIHAD is?? and why thousand of muslims blow them selfs up, just becuse they think they are doing a good thing when they are killing christians (Jihad) and will come to the paradise.

LoneStranger	Jan 27, 07, 02:37 / #
Quoting: David_18, Post #10 JIHAD I'm a Polish and a obviously not a moslem. But once in this forum i tried to give a different perspective in this matter. Obviously moslems are wrong. But the 'blowing selves up' might be as a result of suffocation. Think about it... we as Polish know how it is like to be dominated. The dominator can never be enough kind. Self respect and prestige is gone. I hope they get Palestine back... and also Kashmir. They are really a helpless bunch without anything which is really their own... right now.

DecoratorThreads: 5 Posts: 412 Joined: Aug 26, 06	Jan 27, 07, 03:18 / #
Correct me if i'm wrong but only 10% of Turkey is in Europe. As far as i'm concerned they should nnot be admitted to the European Union. Short but sweet!! Morning everyone..

Maxxx PayneThreads: 2 Posts: 283 Joined: Oct 11, 06	Jan 27, 07, 10:22 / #
Quoting: Grzegorz_, Post #19 Quoting: Maxxx Payne, Post #18 What I think is weird is that Polish think Russians are more similar What do you mean ? excuse me G , i meant to fill the sentence: "Polish think that Russians are more similar to Finnish than the Polish are similar to Russians. And Finnish think vice versa. I remember a lady in Poland who thought I could be speak Russians because we are neighbours and have the "sauna" in common. Actually it is not weird it is more fun No offense here it fun how these "pre-conceptions" work...

esra84	Jan 27, 07, 14:33 / #
Quoting: Maxxx Payne, Post #18 The problem is that you can define any war to be Jihad and that you are defending Muslim people. Christianity condemns war as whole. What about Crusades?! I hope u didnt mean that christians never war. cos thats obviously untrue..

LoneStranger	Jan 27, 07, 02:33 / #
Quoting: globetrotter, Post #4 Are we talking about Russia or the CIS here? I am talking of the current day Russia. I gave a link, please follow it and see for yourself. Quoting: Grzegorz_, Post #7 But vast majority of people live in a European part. Vast majority is in the Asian part.

MatyjaszThreads: 2 Posts: 1,786 Joined: Jul 20, 06	Jan 27, 07, 03:13 / #
Quoting: LoneStranger, Post #1 Turkey has always been very much involved in European history. They claim to be European... and they do have a part of their land in Europe. Russia is 80% in Asia and 20% in Europe. Russia has always been more active with Asia than Europe (relatively). They play more important roles in Asia, and attend all their major conferences.... is always in their affairs....and all its major (meaningful) partners and neighbours are Asian. However... its history with Europe is nevertheless very old and recognised. The important thing here isn't their history link to Europe but their current status. In my opinion Turkey's government maybe becoming western, but vast majority of it's people aren't. Perfect example is their German Diaspora. As for Russia, I don't think they even want to access EU. That would mean starting to listen to it's peoples voices. Why would Putin want that?

LoneStranger	Jan 27, 07, 04:24 / #
Quoting: Matyjasz, Post #13 As for Russia, I don't think they even want to access EU. as for the current situation... your point sounds more correct. Russia has already applied to become a member of the ASEAN. Which should mean that they are a part of Asia and its biggest organisation of member states. And Russia never showed interest to be European (its government i am talking about). And now, seems like, it is officially trying to be more Asian in every standards. Quoting: Decorator, Post #14 only 10% of Turkey is in Europe Yes, you are right. But only if we judge on only a few views of the map. In a more close study, if you see the position of Georgia and Armenia... you will find that if they can be European... then Turkey's plea is not very unjustified. Also, Turkey has always been interested more (almost all) in Europe. Their involvement in Asia is very small relatively.

esra84	Jan 27, 07, 07:22 / #
Quoting: David_18, Post #10 Can you explain for me what JIHAD is?? and why thousand of muslims blow them selfs up, just becuse they think they are doing a good thing when they are killing christians (Jihad) and will come to the paradise. Jihad doesnt mean that killing non muslim people!! if there s a war u've gotta defend urself. this is what we call jihad in islam. and in Quran the biggest sin is to kill someone innocent even if he/she is muslim or not.. yes u'Re right that some people blow themself up, and they really think they r doing something good. but that doesnt mean they are right. there is no such thing in Quran. they are doing it because they are uneducated..

Maxxx PayneThreads: 2 Posts: 283 Joined: Oct 11, 06	Jan 27, 07, 10:05 / #
Quoting: Matyjasz, Post #13 Quoting: LoneStranger, Post #1 Turkey has always been very much involved in European history. They claim to be European... and they do have a part of their land in Europe. Russia is 80% in Asia and 20% in Europe. Russia has always been more active with Asia than Europe (relatively). They play more important roles in Asia, and attend all their major conferences.... is always in their affairs....and all its major (meaningful) partners and neighbours are Asian. However... its history with Europe is nevertheless very old and recognised. The important thing here isn't their history link to Europe but their current status. In my opinion Turkey's government maybe becoming western, but vast majority of it's people aren't. Perfect example is their German Diaspora. As for Russia, I don't think they even want to access EU. That would mean starting to listen to it's peoples voices. Why would Putin want that? The Russians as people are very nice, but their governments have been more or less brutal. Maybe their country is too big to be governed in the western way. Putin is better for Russia than that drunk Yeltsin, worst mafiosos are in jail etc

Maxxx PayneThreads: 2 Posts: 283 Joined: Oct 11, 06	Jan 27, 07, 10:11 / #
What I think is weird is that Polish think Russians are more similar Quoting: esra84, Post #16 Quoting: David_18, Post #10 Can you explain for me what JIHAD is?? and why thousand of muslims blow them selfs up, just becuse they think they are doing a good thing when they are killing christians (Jihad) and will come to the paradise. Jihad doesnt mean that killing non muslim people!! if there s a war u've gotta defend urself. this is what we call jihad in islam. and in Quran the biggest sin is to kill someone innocent even if he/she is muslim or not.. yes u'Re right that some people blow themself up, and they really think they r doing something good. but that doesnt mean they are right. there is no such thing in Quran. they are doing it because they are uneducated.. The problem is that you can define any war to be Jihad and that you are defending Muslim people. Christianity condemns war as whole.

Grzegorz_Threads: 80 Posts: 6,102 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 27, 07, 10:17 / #
Quoting: Maxxx Payne, Post #18 What I think is weird is that Polish think Russians are more similar What do you mean ?

andalaThreads: - Posts: 26 Joined: Mar 13, 06	Jan 27, 07, 15:05 / #
I don't think that the decision whether to grant Turkey access to the EU should be based on religious issues. Does Islam equal terrorism? Crimes justified by religion have taken place all around the world and in the name of all Gods. What should rather be considred is possible benefits EU would get accepting Turkey and/or Russia. Personally as a Pole, I'm in favour of Turkey rather than Russia as the former never accepted our occupation by the three empires whilst the latter was one of our occupants and is responsible for sheding our blood throughout ages.

LoneStranger	Jan 27, 07, 15:09 / #
Quoting: andala, Post #23 EU would get accepting Turkey and/or Russia Russia dont seem even interested to be a part of europe. They seem like more interested in Asia.....looking forward to ASEAN. Go To : answers.com/topic/east-asia-summit Some friend...and people i meet....although want Russia to be in EU more than Turkey. While it has always seemed to me that Turkey is more interested in Europe than Russia!...so I was wondering what Poles in this forum think.... which one they prefer, given the current circumstances

LoneStranger	Jan 27, 07, 15:10 / #
...and why they prefer it...

andalaThreads: - Posts: 26 Joined: Mar 13, 06	Jan 27, 07, 15:13 / #
Quoting: LoneStranger, Post #24 it has always seemed to me that Turkey is more interested in Europe than Russia! You've got a point there. Quoting: LoneStranger, Post #24 I was wondering what Poles in this forum think.... which one they prefer, given the current circumstances You know where I stand on this one. However, talking to people in Poland I must say they are generally rather against either of them joining the EU.

Maxxx PayneThreads: 2 Posts: 283 Joined: Oct 11, 06	Jan 28, 07, 10:21 / #
Quoting: esra84, Post #21 Quoting: Maxxx Payne, Post #18 The problem is that you can define any war to be Jihad and that you are defending Muslim people. Christianity condemns war as whole. What about Crusades?! I hope u didnt mean that christians never war. cos thats obviously untrue.. Teachings of Christ are all about pacifism and turning the other cheek. There is no justified reason in Christianity for war as there is in Islam (the Jihad). The Crusades were done regardless of Christ´s teachings not because of them.

AmathystThreads: 30 Posts: 3,898 Joined: Nov 10, 06	Jan 28, 07, 10:39 / #
I say no to Turkey being a memeber of the EU, since there will be hords of poor people coming to the UK.

AmathystThreads: 30 Posts: 3,898 Joined: Nov 10, 06	Jan 28, 07, 10:40 / #
Quoting: Maxxx Payne, Post #26 Teachings of Christ are all about pacifism and turning the other cheek. There is no justified reason in Christianity for war as there is in Islam (the Jihad). The Crusades were done regardless of Christ´s teachings not because of them. Lets not forget that the Crusades were a long time ago, maybe we are more civilised now unlike those who still carry out their Jihad's!

esra84	Jan 28, 07, 12:12 / #
Quoting: Amathyst, Post #28 maybe we are more civilised now unlike those who still carry out their Jihad's! you cant understand or u dont want to! Jihad is not killing people, jihad is defending ur own country.. The biggest sin is to kill someone in islam. so how can u expect jihad means to kill people.. i am sure if there would be a war in ur counrty u would fight too.. thats what we call jihad in islam.. hope u will get this time

LoneStranger	Jan 28, 07, 12:23 / #
Quoting: Amathyst, Post #27 I say no to Turkey being a memeber of the EU and whats ur opinion for Russia ?