If USA and EU can, why Russia wouldn`t spread democracy? What Poles think?

joepilsudski:

Russia has no real democracy to spread...Democracy is a misused term anyway...How about we talk 'civilized culture'?...Russia has some tradition in this, but unfortunately, it is still Khazar infested at many strategic points...Khazars are traditionally hostile to Russian culture, both in it's traditional and Christian forms...This is Russia's biggest problem...Communism retarded the Russian culture & development by many years.

jwojcieThreads: 3 Posts: 816 Joined: Jan 3, 09	Sep 28, 09, 11:43 / #
Boris Yeltsin drowned democracy in Russia in a glass of vodka... Putin era is a hangover treated by another shot. Russia is addicted to autocracy, because last time they've tried democracy they've got anarchy. Simple put, Russia cann't spread something it doesn't have.

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 28, 09, 12:23 / #
Seanus: Joe and Pawian both have good points, Crow. Beware of excessive idealism of course, they have good points. But, i never said that Russia represent perfect example of democratic society. What is interesting in Russian approach to Balkan- we can say that Russian stance always supported democratic development, progressive processes and freedom. So, it is clear that Russia has democratic potentials, no matter that itself isn`t enough democratic `by definition`. On the other side- what`s the `definition` of democracy? Joe nicely said, realy nice. Comments like that make this complete forum worth for visiting. If somebody seeks for definitions or truths according to standards of ruling EU or/and USA establihment he should simple follow BBC, CNN, AL JAZEERA or DEUTSCHE WELLE news. Thanks Joe :) joepilsudski: Russia has no real democracy to spread...Democracy is a misused term anyway...How about we talk 'civilized culture'?...Russia has some tradition in this, but unfortunately, it is still Khazar infested at many strategic points...Khazars are traditionally hostile to Russian culture, both in it's traditional and Christian forms...This is Russia's biggest problem...Communism retarded the Russian culture & development by many years. this is best in above post >>> 'civilized culture' i have no words to describe how is this comment worth. Yes, simple 'civilized culture' is what this world needs. Take example of China. You can insist on `democracy` by some standards or definitions and you can easely destabilize country and, millions of people can pay such a transition with their lives. But what for? Why? to satisfy some standards and definitions or to satisfy ambitions of some greedy circles? It is obvious that EU and USA functioning on the base of principle `controled chaos`. Those Empires, are masters of `crisis control` and they easely and without hesitation creating crisic and cathastropic all arround the globe. They then appear as some `deux ex mahina` offering their (!) solutions, their (!) services and their (!) definitions of democracy. Yugoslavia was (!) good example. That prosperious country received EU and USA cure and died in bloody agony. After the clash of EU/USA and Yugoslav pollitical doctrine, Yugoslavia needed to wanish. Serbs didn`t listen and they are literary forbbiden ethos. There was (is) serious attempt of ruling EU and USA circles to erase Serbians as pollitical, militarely, cultural and even as bilogical factor on Balkan. One don`t need bigger analizes then to see what happened in Bosnia-Herzegovina and on Kosovo-Metohija, after retreat of Serbian influence and phisical presentse (people and armed factor). What happened? Just one aspect of consequences- Simple, EU/USA (NATO) populated mujaheedines (from Arabic countries, Albania) in those regions. Why? for democracy? well, maybe by the definition of sharia law. For what and which interests? i don`t know, you tell me.

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08	Sep 28, 09, 13:12 / #
Crow: Yugoslavia needed to wanish. Yugoslavia was already vanishing from the moment it was formed. WW2 didn't do it much good and the only reason why it survived as long as it did was Tito. And indeed, after his death you see the country disintegrating pretty fast and Milosevic did nothing to reverse the situation. There have been internal issues throughout Yugo's existance (I know first-hand). EU and US were definitively not responsible for the disintegration of Yugoslavia. They are responsible for this themselves. M-G (tired)

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08	Edited by: Mr Grunwald Sep 28, 09, 14:46 / #
szczeciniak: on the scale of 1 to 10?(10 is soviet Russia) so i would give 7.5 What on earth are you talking about? 8.5 to SU and 10 to Tzar Russia the Tzar didn't even aknowledge Poland!! Soviet union did! It's a reason why Pilsudski let the whites bleed! Crow "forget about prejudices about Russians. If you are Polish, i understand you" I just love Crowie first time I ever heard that from anyone foreign! And from a Serb! It's allmost bloody impossible to imagine

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Sep 28, 09, 15:53 / #
Crow, look at it this way. If there is a flourishing democracy, it is the people who voted the leaders in. Well, the majority anyway. The Mujas killed Serbs for voting for Milosevic's regime. In Russia, it is autocratic largely. You know that the leaders made the decisions and you cannot really blame the people for that. There should be hit squads to take out the leaders as the people have done nothing wrong. You see my point?

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 28, 09, 15:55 / #
MareGaea: They are responsible for this themselves. absolutely wrong and, i would later elaborate that matter MareGaea: M-G (tired) Tired? Well, you are out of bussines then That`s how it is in my world Seanus: Crow, look at it this way. yes, i follow Seanus: If there is a flourishing democracy, it is the people who voted the leaders in. Well, the majority anyway. but there is always opened guestion of public media and who controls it Seanus: The Mujas killed Serbs for voting for Milosevic's regime. you can say that way by anology but, it can be also said- mujas killed Serbs because local Bosnian Serbs resisted to sharia law announced in Islamic declaration of Bosnian muslim leader Alija Izetbegovic, before civil war started. Seanus: In Russia, it is autocratic largely. possible Seanus: You know that the leaders made the decisions and you cannot really blame the people for that. Stalin is good example while Hitler realy reflected position of masses. Again, take power of media in consideration here. Who was behind powerfull Hitler`s media is crucial question. Often, some bussines people are behind media. Would you be surprised if i tell you that even famous USA Kenedy family had interesting bussines connections with Nazi regime. There was even scandal at the time about it. Seanus: There should be hit squads to take out the leaders as the people have done nothing wrong. Serbs are honest people, believe me. That`s why they gave one Gavrilo Princip to the Europe. Seanus: You see my point? i trying, i trying. Am i good?

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08	Sep 28, 09, 16:19 / #
Crow: absolutely wrong and, i would later elaborate that matter Of course it's wrong: everybody knows there were European and American agents in Yugoslavia active with one objective in mind: the destruction of Yugo and more specific, of Serbia. But, I don't see you elaborate on that point. Crow: Tired? Well, you are out of bussines then That`s how it is in my world I was physically tired after not sleeping very well, not of the discussion. Crow: Serbs are honest people, believe me. That`s why they gave one Gavrilo Princip to the Europe. Gavrilo Princip was actually a Bosniak :) And it's kinda cynical that he killed the one person who was going to give the ppls of Austria-Hungary what they wanted. Some form of self-rule. M-G (not so tired anymore)

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Edited by: Crow Sep 28, 09, 16:25 / #
MareGaea: I was physically tired after not sleeping very well, not of the discussion. it doesn`t count in bussines. You are in or you are out MareGaea: Gavrilo Princip was actually a Bosniak :) ? MareGaea: And it's kinda cynical that he killed the one person who was going to give the ppls of Austria-Hungary what they wanted. Some form of self-rule. you are realy naive. Are you Polish? no wonder that Poles waited so long to gain independance. You needed Serbians to start to roll things. Next time, don`t be so naive MareGaea: M-G (not so tired anymore) just stay close to Serbs

MareGaeaThreads: 45 Posts: 5,527 Joined: Feb 6, 08	Sep 28, 09, 17:08 / #
Crow In my line of business it does matter: the fact I had a good night sleep or didn't sleep well is determining if I give my boys and girls a hard time or not :))) Well even though he may have been a Serb, he was born in Bosnia, but I was only kidding anway. Crow, my nationality is fairly well known on this forum. No, I am not Polish but Dutch, but I graduated on Serbia in the last century and Serbian nationalism and insecurity. So I may assume to know something about the subject. I have some Serb friends yes. Some of them girlies are pretty hot ;) M-G (nah)

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Edited by: lesser Sep 28, 09, 21:02 / #
Crow: If USA and EU can, why Russia wouldn`t spread democracy? So I understand that you liked how the US (and its allies) 'spreading democracy' in Serbia? SeanBM: I think we need to re-establish democracy It was never established in the first place... Marek11111: U.S. and E.U. oh and Russia spreading democracy, just like Hitler was spreading democracy. Hitler wanted united Europe, just like the EU. Those crazy socialists... :)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Sep 28, 09, 21:17 / #
lesser: Hitler wanted united Europe, just like the EU. Hmmm.....there wouldn't had been a polish potatoe head being able to boycott and to demand and to throw all around tantrums I think.... Always funny how you guys compare the EU to Hitler! :):):)

Bratwurst BoyThreads: 11 Posts: 14,563 Joined: Apr 2, 07	Sep 28, 09, 21:27 / #
lesser: Poor minds think alike :) Well....now that you tell me...looks around ruins to polish slave laborer This similiarity is eerie...

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Sep 28, 09, 22:19 / #
Bratwurst Boy: looks around ruins to polish slave laborer The same goals, different methods. This time all European nations are on target. If Hitler could have an opportunity to run the EU propaganda machine at that time, there is serious possibility that he would be considered today a great hero of united Europe of workers. :)

szczeciniakThreads: 5 Posts: 119 Joined: Sep 8, 09	Sep 29, 09, 07:37 / #
but they do continuity spreading democracy!!!(Russian way democracy) Russia has built an alliance of dictators, alliance of the most unbridled forces and regimes.” Extremists of all kinds serve the purpose of breaking the peace, damaging Western economies, and setting the stage for a global revolution in which the balance of power shifts from the United States and the West to the Kremlin and its Chinese allies.there is the idea of diffusion,It is not that the Kremlin should strive for territorial expansion and the dissemination of its [political] model. The critical thing is power and the fulcrum of an overall strategic context. In that case, even if the Americans appear influential in the post-Soviet countries, Moscow remains in charge.Russian has successfully expanded Moscow’s position beyond and above the old Soviet position in Africa and Latin America.What prevails,is Moscow’s “assertiveness and determination without fear of a reaction from the West.In other words, the West has already been outmaneuvered. The KGB and the Russian General Staff have taken our measure, and they are laughing at us. Our leaders do not realize the sophistication of their enemy. They cannot see or understand what is happening. They blink, they turn away, continuing to use concepts gifted to them long ago by Soviet agents of influence. As a nation we are confused and disoriented, believing that the world is beholden to the West’s money power – and therefore, peace can be purchased. words of Marina Kalashnikova: a Moscow-based historian, researcher and journalist The Kremlin has activated a network of extremists in the Third World,” wrote Kalashnikova. “[At the same time] Russia has managed to shake off nearly all international conventions restricting the expansion of its military power.” In this situation, the only counter to Russian power is American power. Yet the American president is preparing to surrender that power in a series of arms control agreements that will leave the United States vulnerable to a first strike. Placing this in context, nuclear weapons are ultimate weapons, so that the West’s superiority in conventional weapons is therefore meaningless. Whoever gains strategic nuclear supremacy will rule the world; and the Russian strategic rocket forces are in place, ready to launch, while America’s nuclear forces are rotting from neglect. so did they stop? or what?

lesserThreads: 7 Posts: 2,014 Joined: Oct 19, 07	Edited by: lesser Sep 28, 09, 21:22 / #
Bratwurst Boy: Always funny how you guys compare the EU to Hitler! :):):) Poor minds think alike :)

CrowThreads: 367 Posts: 7,316 Joined: Feb 14, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 6, 09, 01:58 / #
Scott Ritter on Europe

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 6, 09, 13:47 / #
Scott Ritter is one of the best commentators out there. He is more of an authority on Iran and WMD's but he has a broader awareness. I've said it before, Crow, Kasparov is the man that you want to listen to. He did an interview with David Frost a year ago yesterday. It's on Youtube. He represents the main opposition. If you want to become more aware of the blocks to the establishment of democratic process, ask Sasha. If I remember correctly, he is involved in such work and is a cool Russian guy.