Widespread Sex Abuse By The Catholic Church, Is Poland Next ?

joepilsudski:

the Church can solve some of this problem by simply allowing priests to marry

Asexuality (also known as nonsexuality[1]) in its broadest sense, describes lack of sexual attraction,[2][3] or interest in or desire for sex.[4] Sometimes, it is considered a lack of a sexual orientation.[5] One commonly cited study placed the incidence rate of asexuality at 1%.[6] Asexuality is distinct from celibacy, which is the deliberate abstention from sexual activity.

theblueenigmaThreads: 7 Posts: 215 Joined: Aug 20, 08	Edited by: theblueenigma May 26, 09, 01:40 / #
A report recently published outlines the extent of child sex abuse in Ireland by members of the Catholic Church. I’ve read some of it and it makes for very harrowing reading, especially considering how the Catholic Church attempted to cover it up for so long. Not only that but they fought the survivors through every court of law they could before finally having to apologise and compensating thousands with millions of Euro, although the final compensation figure will be closer to E1,000,000,000. Considering such widespread abuse has been exposed in Ireland over the last decade, could Poland be next? How might that affect the Catholic Church in Poland ? http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/video/Ireland-church-orphanages-abuse -report-published/Video/200905315285073?lpos=video_Article_Related_Con tent_Region_1&lid=VIDEO_15285073_Ireland_church_orphanages_abuse_repor t_published_ http://news.sky.com/skynews/Home/World-News/Ireland-Child-Abuse-Enquir y-To-Report-Evidence-From-Ryan-Commission-That-Could-Rock-Catholic-Chu rch/Article/200905315285008

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	May 26, 09, 11:32 / #
theblueenigma: Considering such widespread abuse has been exposed in Ireland over the last decade, could Poland be next? How might that affect the Catholic Church in Poland ? It's not going to have much effect on the Catholic church in Poland. The first reason is the lack of opportunity: in Ireland the Catholic perverts had several decades to abuse children (and made full use of that time); in Poland the Catholic perverts tended to be kept away from vulnerable children by communist authorities. The second reason is the lack of seperation of church and state here: the Catholic church here is dug in far stronger than the church in Ireland; to put it bluntly, they have the power to make sure that sh!t here is covered up and forgotten about.

theblueenigmaThreads: 7 Posts: 215 Joined: Aug 20, 08	Edited by: theblueenigma May 26, 09, 14:53 / #
Harry: in Poland the Catholic perverts tended to be kept away from vulnerable children by communist authorities. Good point, but there were thousands of Children in Ireland raped and abused as altar boys / girls by Catholic priests. There were thousands more abused in primary / high schools, it wasnt at all confined to correctional institutions. Harry: The second reason is the lack of seperation of church and state here: the Catholic church here is dug in far stronger than the church in Ireland; to put it bluntly, they have the power to make sure that sh!t here is covered up and forgotten about. There was never a seperation between church and state in Ireland until the victims of abuse had the courage to speak out. Since the truth has emerged the catholic church has lost all respect and authoritive power in Ireland. In fact nowhere in the world were the Catholic church more powerful in matters of the state than they were in Ireland. You must remember Ireland is a country that you couldnt buy contraceptives in less than 10 years ago, divorce has only been legalised 5 yrs ago. They managed to keep the abuse concealed for almost a century, denying it, lying about it and moving paedophile priests from parish to parish. I personally know of three childhood friends that were raped by Catholic priests, and it all took place in their schools. Sadly I knew nothing about it until recently. Harry: they have the power to make sure that sh!t here is covered up and forgotten about. They may think they have power to cover it up, but not anymore. Their power has crumbled in Ireland and sadly so has the faith of the people who oncle looked up to them. All it takes is for those abused to have the courage to speak out, then thousands will follow and once the gates open thats it. I myself was educated throughout my life by the Catholic church as all the schools in Ireland were run by it. Although I was fortunate enough not to have been sexually abused, I was beaten unconscious as a child by members of the clergy, and still have scars on my body from the beatings and torture I endured. I would be amazed if the same abuse hasnt taken place in Poland as it has in Ireland and elsewhere in the world. The common consensus here is that 'Poland is next !' and its not a matter of 'if' but more 'when'

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 7, 09, 01:14 / #
Ian Paisley would enjoy this thread. I've done a lesson where students have to evaluate the prestige of certain jobs. To my amazement, quite a few students attacked priests, though never the Pope, and said that they were sleazy and controversial. Hmm...

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Edited by: joepilsudski Dec 7, 09, 19:16 / #
Yes, Poland is next...Pope Benedict is personally coming to Poland to rape young boys, accompanied by marauding homos from the Curia. BTW, the Church can solve some of this problem by simply allowing priests to marry, as there is nothing in the Bible that prohibits this...The Catholic Church agonizes over sex, and spreads superstitious mumbo jumbo that makes these problems worse...95% of parish priests are decent men, and get tarred with he same brush as a small amount of perverts...Then the lawyers rake in the cash on lawsuits.

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 7, 09, 20:25 / #
joepilsudski: 95% of parish priests are decent men, Sorry but decent men are honest about needing to have a shag now and again: Catholic priests are not that honest.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Dec 7, 09, 21:30 / #
Yeah, but some priests duck the age of consent requirements so best not be too honest ;) ;)

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09	Dec 7, 09, 21:32 / #
Harry: to put it bluntly, they have the power to make sure that sh!t here is covered up and forgotten about. good point. I though that the were some cases of abuse by church already discovered. I don't understand why the OP is thinking that it is otherwise. The difference is the media. Western media always give a lot of attention in order to make profits, Polish media are not like that yet. BTW, has anybody hear about the father of a little girl who vanished, but the two abusers (government officials) of her daughter were found dead in Latvia or another Baltic former republics?

ArienThreads: 6 Posts: 1,604 Joined: Oct 20, 08	Dec 7, 09, 22:30 / #
theblueenigma: How might that affect the Catholic Church in Poland ? All I will say is that the youth has the future. I will simply leave it up to them to decide what feels right for them and what doesn't. I know they will open their eyes and smell the stench sooner or later, I have no doubts about that. Harry: the Catholic church here is dug in far stronger than the church in Ireland; to put it bluntly, they have the power to make sure that sh!t here is covered up and forgotten about. ..and then there was internet. ;)

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Dec 7, 09, 22:35 / #
Harry: Sorry but decent men are honest about needing to have a shag now and again: Catholic priests are not that honest. All depends on the priest, Harry...Shall we discuss rabbis and their sexual proclivities?

ArienThreads: 6 Posts: 1,604 Joined: Oct 20, 08	Edited by: Arien Dec 8, 09, 00:28 / #
joepilsudski: 95% of parish priests are decent men, and get tarred with he same brush as a small amount of perverts... I wouldn't tar them with the same brush, but this doesn't change the fact that 95% of these decent men - as you've put it - present their absolute truths to people, convincing a lot of these people of all kinds of ideas - which aren't proven to be truthful - which can be spiritually, psychologically, mentally and eventually physically harmful ideas, if you carry such burdens for a long time. pawian: Of course there are. But let me answer you with the quote from Joe: So tell me, do you have any idea how many people live their lives in total terror, isolation, anger, misery, bitterness and hopelessness, simply because they believe in something they've been told by these decent men? I'm sorry, but I don't think there's anything decent about teaching someone to hate his or herself, simply for being a healthy human being with needs and desires. I'm not using this thread to bash Catholics, because this applies to most religions who use the boogieman concept. (Sorry if that sounds disrespectful to you, but I obviously don't believe in a Satan, and see no reason to believe in a Satan either, so you'll just have to deal with that.) I hope that one day, you'll find out you're scaring yourself half to death, and that this really isn't necessary. You should embrace your life, and you shouldn't ask any questions which really don't need answering. (Because if those questions needed an answer, we all would've found our answers a long time ago!) You should feel free to be the person you know you are deep down, because there's absolutely nothing wrong with that. It's how you were made, and so it can't ever be your fault, or even wrong. :) Alright, feel free to move this post to random if you must. (I know it's slightly off-topic, but I wanted to explain why I say what I say.) I'm not saying this out of hatred, or because I want to slander certain people. I'm saying this because I wish I could help certain people to liberate themselves from all this negativity, hatred and fear-mongering. I really do. I know I can come across as hateful sometimes. It's not that, it makes me angry when I see people who suffer such a great deal, both mentally and physically, and people who make other people suffer, all because of a terrible lie they believe in. So no, I don't hate them. Actually, I feel sorry for them, because I know exactly how it feels to hurt inside. Also, I do realize that reading this post must be boring for most of you, but perhaps it can make a difference for someone else. :)

TymoteuszThreads: 7 Posts: 694 Joined: Jul 25, 09	Dec 8, 09, 00:36 / #
Can I sue them for not molesting me? I mean, What do you think that does to my self-esteem. I have just never been good enough..... (sigh)

joepilsudskiThreads: 44 Posts: 2,529 Joined: Apr 27, 07	Dec 8, 09, 18:02 / #
Harry: We can if you want, although given that you're a raging anti-semite it probably wouldn't be a good idea. Yes, I can understand your being hesitant... Here is Joe, without the hat, conducting a pogrom in Philadelphia

PlasticPoleThreads: 10 Posts: 5,429 Joined: May 28, 09	Dec 8, 09, 19:41 / #
joepilsudski: Here is Joe, without the hat, conducting a pogrom in Philadelphia Maybe that was Joe thirty years ago?

ArienThreads: 6 Posts: 1,604 Joined: Oct 20, 08	Dec 7, 09, 22:44 / #
Harry: Sorry but decent men are honest about needing to have a shag now and again: Catholic priests are not that honest. Only now and again? I guess I'm really a paragon of decency then.. ;)

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,387 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Dec 7, 09, 22:53 / #
theblueenigma: Considering such widespread abuse has been exposed in Ireland over the last decade, could Poland be next? How might that affect the Catholic Church in Poland ? Poland is not Ireland by any means. The things described took place in Ireland while Poland was a communist country and priests were under a close surveillance of communist secret services. What is more, there weren`t any orphanages run by clergy then. They were run by state institutions. Today, in Poland, priests who play indecent games are prosecuted. 2008 cases http://www.dziennik.pl/wydarzenia/article156118/Ksiadz_aresztowany_za_ molestowanie_i_pornografie.html http://kidprotect.pl/2008/06/27/ksiadz-aresztowany-za-wykorzystywanie- 13-latki/ 2003 case http://szczecin.gazeta.pl/szczecin/1,34959,1508411.html In all these and a few other cases priests were arrested and charged with molesting and sex with a minor.

aphrodisiacThreads: 22 Posts: 3,998 Joined: Apr 15, 09	Dec 7, 09, 23:18 / #
pawian: In all these and a few other cases priests were arrested and charged with molesting and sex with a minor. there you go, I knew there were some cases. Thanks Pawian.

AmathystThreads: 30 Posts: 3,967 Joined: Nov 10, 06	Dec 7, 09, 23:24 / #
pawian: The things described took place in Ireland while Poland was a communist country Wrong, these things have been happening in Ireland for a lot longer than the 1940s! http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magdalene_Asylum

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,387 Joined: May 30, 08	Edited by: pawian Dec 7, 09, 23:27 / #
aphrodisiac: there you go, I knew there were some cases. Thanks Pawian. Of course there were. But let me answer you with the quote from Joe: joepilsudski: 95% of parish priests are decent men, and get tarred with he same brush as a small amount of perverts... Amathyst: Wrong, these things have been happening in Ireland for a lot longer than the 1940s! Good luck in looking for Polish archives covering the time. :):):):)

NathanThreads: 33 Posts: 1,846 Joined: Feb 13, 09	Edited by: Nathan Dec 8, 09, 00:39 / #
joepilsudski: the Church can solve some of this problem by simply allowing priests to marry Agree with you, Joe. This is the only solution. Asexuality (also known as nonsexuality[1]) in its broadest sense, describes lack of sexual attraction,[2][3] or interest in or desire for sex.[4] Sometimes, it is considered a lack of a sexual orientation.[5] One commonly cited study placed the incidence rate of asexuality at 1%.[6] Asexuality is distinct from celibacy, which is the deliberate abstention from sexual activity. It means that 99% of priests have sexual desires like any other mortal out there and not so many have enough will to abstinate. Besides replacing a man's control headquarters from a woman to a church, which is an understandable reason of any power, it resulted in total fall back in regards to physical needs of the majority of the priests. I want again to mention the Orthodox church, which permits marriage and priesthood and there is no such cases as ones occurring in Ireland or Poland. You cannot fight laws of physics: F = -F!

CaffeinewreckThreads: - Posts: 12 Joined: Dec 4, 09	Edited by: Caffeinewreck Dec 8, 09, 00:58 / #
Now that the former-anglican priests are allowed to stay married or marry again, I figure its only a matter of time before other priests are gonna be asking for that same right. As for child molestation, we'll I have never heard about anything like that in poland, allthough I can see from the articles that such tragedies have transpired. Where my family is from its rumoured that two of the children from the village are the priests iligitimate kids, so

BzibziohThreads: 6 Posts: 3,657 Joined: Oct 15, 08 [Suspended]	Dec 8, 09, 04:46 / #
Caffeinewreck: As for child molestation, we'll I have never heard about anything like that in poland, allthough I can see from the articles that such tragedies have transpired. Where my family is from its rumoured that two of the children from the village are the priests iligitimate kids, so Child molestation and priests having children are two different stories. Too much coffee?

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 8, 09, 14:23 / #
joepilsudski: Shall we discuss rabbis and their sexual proclivities? We can if you want, although given that you're a raging anti-semite it probably wouldn't be a good idea. Bzibzioh: Child molestation and priests having children are two different stories. Although a priest having sex with a child and a priest having sex with a woman are both apparently the same as far as the church is concerned (judging from their past actions).

HarryThreads: 62 Posts: 8,508 Joined: May 2, 07 [Suspended]	Dec 8, 09, 19:43 / #
joepilsudski: Here is Joe, without the hat, conducting a pogrom in Philadelphia How classically racist Pole: must be at least two-on-one odds and at least one weapon is essential if the odds are worse than four on one.

terzievThreads: - Posts: 55 Joined: Nov 17, 09	Dec 8, 09, 23:15 / #
joepilsudski: BTW, the Church can solve some of this problem by simply allowing priests to marry, as there is nothing in the Bible that prohibits this surprisingly many people dont know that it is compulsory for an orthodox priest to be married. seems like a really healthy thing to me. but you should think why such abuse scandals or some weird sexual violence are happening mostly in northern countries considering spain and italy are also very catholic. also i cant stop wondering how could a polish priests insist on teaching and and giving advices to young couples about marriage.

tornado2007Threads: 20 Posts: 3,497 Joined: Jul 11, 07	Dec 8, 09, 23:48 / #
Ok so i'm going to ask the obvious question, is this happening in Poland, if so to what extent?? are we talking Ireland proportions here or just the odd case (not that even one case is acceptable) The problem has been identified in Ireland, that does not mean Ireland is the worst offender, it just might mean they are willing to face their problem (as it has been discovered) I don't want to jump to conclusions but i would take a guess that in 3rd world countries this sort of thing happens as much as it does in the developed world, surely then the Catholic Church as a whole needs to be looked at??

pawianThreads: 90 Posts: 5,387 Joined: May 30, 08	Dec 9, 09, 00:22 / #
tornado2007: are we talking Ireland proportions here or just the odd case (not that even one case is acceptable) Why don`t you read the posts above?

tornado2007Threads: 20 Posts: 3,497 Joined: Jul 11, 07	Dec 9, 09, 00:25 / #
pawian: Why don`t you read the posts above? to be honest because i find that people's own figures never add up :)

Mr GrunwaldThreads: 34 Posts: 2,358 Joined: Dec 16, 08	Dec 9, 09, 03:26 / #
tornado2007: surely then the Catholic Church as a whole needs to be looked at?? Okey... When 100 kids get raped in country A and 1 kid get's raped in country B it gotta be religion since they all got raped by a member of the clergy. Honestly tell me, how large % of ALL priests do this thing hmm? It's like hearing about 70% of criminals have a immigrant backround. DOES THAT MEAN THAT ALL IMMIGRANTS ARE CRIMINALS? NO! L2R statistics

dtaylor5632Threads: 49 Posts: 4,459 Joined: May 2, 09	Dec 9, 09, 03:54 / #
Mr Grunwald: When 100 kids get raped in country A and 1 kid get's raped in country B it gotta be religion since they all got raped by a member of the clergy. Honestly tell me, how large % of ALL priests do this thing hmm? Not really, Poland is a much more proud country than Ireland with their religion. I think it would only increase the amount of child abuse due to more people turning the blind eye not wanting to be seen as against the church.