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14 year old rape victim from Warsaw denied abortion!


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mafketisThreads: 17
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Joined: Mar 31, 08 		  Jun 7, 08, 05:04 /  #
very quick, sloppy translation (link to original below):

14 year old rape victim denied abortion!

A 14 year old rape victim came to a Warsaw hospital to terminate her preganancy.
But her every step was followed by a priest and pro-life activists. They accuse the mother of inciting a minor to have the abortion, prosecutors are examning the evidence. The operation did not take place....

side note: Polish law allows for abortion on demand in cases of rape within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy. The current pregnancy is in the 10th or 11th week. The church is transparently trying to throw up legal roadblocks until the pregancy is 'too advanced' to terminate.

For those who can read Polish:
http://wiadomosci.gazeta.pl/Wiadomosci/1,80273,5288282,Odmowili_aborcj i_zgwalconej_14_latce.html
tehbThreads: -
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welcome to poland...
trublustuukThreads: 2
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Joined: Apr 26, 08 		  Jun 7, 08, 05:39 /  #
Same thing happened in the Republic of Ireland, can't remember how long ago, maybe ten years ago, but the church wouldn't let her abort it even though she was raped by a family member I think and only bout 13/14. Religion can be so backwards at times.
SeanusThreads: 22
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Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  Jun 7, 08, 06:43 /  #
That's just wrong. I'm sorry but rape is rape, she shouldn't have to carry the burden of this baby. Babies should be loved and nurtured, not foisted on u in such a fashion.

Sorry to say it, but I just saw here how anal this aspect of Catholicism is. Any Catholic against this kind of abortion should hang their head in shame and get the hell off of their high horse/holier than thou ways. Morals don't stem only from religion as it happens.
osiolThreads: 59
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mafketis:
pro-life activists

What kind of life is one spent chasing distressed teenage rape victims?
WroclawThreads: 77
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mafketis:
side note: Polish law allows for abortion on demand in cases of rape within the first 12 weeks of pregnancy.


Obviously not.
SeanusThreads: 22
Posts: 30,158
Joined: Dec 25, 07 		  Jun 7, 08, 06:51 /  #
Exactly!! The police should have sprayed them with pest control chemicals, u know, those tank like things they have at football games. How dare they, how dare they? I'm pro-life but it doesn't mean that I'm not pro-decency either. Poor young girl, spare a thought!!

I've said it b4, one of the biggest shortcomings of humanity is not to see it truly from the position of the sufferer. Yeah, we harp on about principles but let's try and put ourselves in her shoes (verstehen approach). These priests need to have a large carrot shoved up their jacksies, keep them happy, if only for a short time. Sods!!
trublustuukThreads: 2
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"Ireland's constitution was altered by national referendum in 1983 to give unborn children equal rights to life as mothers. In 1992, a teenager aged 14, who became pregnant through being raped, was refused permission to travel abroad in order to get an abortion. The case eventually went to the supreme court in Ireland where, because she was considered to be at risk of suicide, the decision was finally made to allow her to leave the republic for the operation. Since 1992, four governments have refused to introduce legislation confirming the supreme court's judgment, and instead tried to get public support for a more restricted move. During 2002, a constitutional amendment which was designed to remove the threat of suicide as legal grounds for an abortion was narrowly defeated in a national referendum."

Just found that while looking for the thing I was referring to. The bold part is quite scary, these people would rather have the girl kill herself (and killing the baby effectively and comitting a huge sin in suicide) than have her kill an unborn child :/

Other things I found during my search were a 17yo girl being denied her gradution as she was 6 months pregnant and had to stay in her seat during the ceremony and was only told this 20 mins before it.

Churches are so backward and need to move forward sometimes. I'm not sure if Poland is more catholic than Ireland (I think it is tbh) but I'd like to hope they arn't as anal about it as the irish are.
SeanusThreads: 22
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To be sure, to be sure
lesserThreads: 7
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Joined: Oct 19, 07 		Edited by: lesser   Jun 7, 08, 07:15 /  #
Why do you draw a link between Catholic church religion and abortion? Out of ignorance of this matter I suppose. This case have nothing to do with religion. Catholic church and many atheists agree that human life should be protected.
trublustuukThreads: 2
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lesser:


Why do you draw a link between Catholic church religion and abortion?


mafketis:
But her every step was followed by a priest and pro-life activists.


mafketis:
The church is transparently trying to throw up legal roadblocks until the pregancy is 'too advanced' to terminate.


You with the programme yet? A lot of Pro Life campaigners are from christian backgrounds and the fact that abortion is a big nono in the catholic church and that Poland and Republic of Ireland (both strong catholic countries) have had instances where young teenagers have been raped and denied abortions kinda draws a link.
lesserThreads: 7
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I'm A Catholic with a clue so, you don't need to post some links to explain me what is position of the church. The problem is that you still don't understand their motivation.

Tell me this, when an atheist oppose abortion, why he/she is doing so?
ukpolskaThreads: 51
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lesser:
Why do you draw a link between Catholic church religion and abortion? Out of ignorance of this matter I suppose. This case have nothing to do with religion. Catholic church and many atheists agree that human life should be protected.

If you read the link there it is quite a lot of evidence that states the Catholic church hounded the poor girl, even searching her out in Warsaw after she was refused an abortion in Lublin, due to the priests intervention.
I will never understand these Neanderthal decisions made by a "so-called" loving organisation as the Catholic church.
This can be witness time and time again, even to the extent of lying to children in schools saying condoms do not work.
KatieKasiaThreads: 4
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Joined: Apr 30, 08 		  Jun 7, 08, 08:08 /  #
Wow wow wow. So, can someone just make it clear to me, is it illegal to have abortions here? and only legal in the case of a rape?
ukpolskaThreads: 51
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KatieKasia:
Wow wow wow. So, can someone just make it clear to me, is it illegal to have abortions here? and only legal in the case of a rape?

and if it is detrimental to health, but you will still have an uphill battle to prove your case.
lesserThreads: 7
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ukpolska:
If you read the link there it is quite a lot of evidence that states the Catholic church hounded the poor girl, even searching her out in Warsaw after she was refused an abortion in Lublin, due to the priests intervention.


This article is biased, this newspaper advocating abortion on demand from many years. It seems that this girl is under pressure of her mother as well but they failed to notice it. This girl simply need a psychologist.

ukpolska:
I will never understand these Neanderthal decisions made by a "so-called" loving organisation as the Catholic church.


I suppose there are many more of things that you don't have ability to understand.

ukpolska:
This can be witness time and time again, even to the extent of lying to children in schools saying condoms do not work.


BS
ukpolskaThreads: 51
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Joined: Oct 23, 06  Gold Member MEMBER 		Edited by: ukpolska   Jun 7, 08, 08:17 /  #
lesser:
BS

I had a lesson with a group of Matura students and we were discussing illnesses around the world, and the subject focused on Africa and the problem of AIDS there. One student said that maybe if they were allowed to use condoms then this problem would be reduced, another student said that condoms do not stop sexual diseases and was quickly rebuffed and asked them to proof it.
She replied that she had been told that condoms were no use at all by her priest, because sperm and sexual diseases can penetrate through the pours of the condom. Another student said that she had seen a film that was shown to her by her priest that showed sperm and sexual diseases penetrating through the pours of the condom.
lesser:
I suppose there are many more of things that you don't have ability to understand.

After eight years of living here I understand more than I would like to sometimes.

lesser:
This article is biased, this newspaper advocating abortion on demand from many years. It seems that this girl is under pressure of her mother as well but they failed to notice it. This girl simply need a psychologist.

I hope and prey that your daughter never gets raped and you are in this situation, because the mindless stupidity that you are portraying is just plain sad.
I live in Pulawy near Lublin and everyone in this area is sickened with the churches actions in this matter, and this will only alienate the church from the people its meant to serve further.
lesserThreads: 7
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Joined: Oct 19, 07 		Edited by: lesser   Jun 7, 08, 08:35 /  #
The church object condoms because of different reason thus whether this is effective or not does not matter from their perspective. Brits know nothing about CC but they are the first to lecture them. Why not to read something about the subject before you jump with blind criticism?

ukpolska:
I hope and prey that your daughter never gets raped and you are in this situation, because the mindless stupidity that you are portraying is just plain sad.


Perhaps you should back off with this personal attack and provide some arguments to this discussion? I'm ready for an interesting debate on proper level.
ukpolskaThreads: 51
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lesser:
I suppose there are many more of things that you don't have ability to understand.

lesser:
Brits know nothing about CC but they are the first to lecture them.

lesser:
Why not to read something about the subject before you jump with blind criticism?

lesser:
Perhaps you should back off with this personal attack

Pot calling the kettle black in my eyes...and this isn't personal, my daughter and wife are Catholic, and I agreed for her to grow up in this religion; however, if something is wrong its just plain wrong, whatever brush you paint it with, and I will continue to criticize the church if it takes away the civil and humanistic values that make us who we are.
lesserThreads: 7
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Still you failed to provide an argument.
dtaylorThreads: 15
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Joined: Sep 15, 07 		Edited by: dtaylor   Jun 7, 08, 09:33 /  #
The Catholic church still is behind in the times on many issues. Seems to me that they spend far too much time preying into people's sex lives, rather than dealing with the actual needs of it's followers.
osiolThreads: 59
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If you disagree with a law like this one, what is a better response: to campaign, to preach and to persuade others including the powers that be that the law is wrong, or those who follow the law?

What will the church do to actually help this girl when she finally does have the baby? Criticise her even more for having a child out of wedlock?

How many times will this girl have to be a victim?
MrBubblesThreads: 13
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Joined: Nov 13, 07 		  Jun 7, 08, 10:24 /  #
lesser:
The church object condoms because of different reason thus whether this is effective or not does not matter from their perspective.


But you agree that the church exploits ignorance and spreads disinformation to further its own policies? The condom video mentioned above is a classic example. You've also given no reason why the church should take such an aggressive astance on abortion.
dtaylorThreads: 15
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Joined: Sep 15, 07 		Edited by: dtaylor   Jun 7, 08, 10:28 /  #
lesser:
Still you failed to provide an argument.


So have you, whats your moral arguement without taking it from that special book?
SeanusThreads: 22
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The key thing is that the church isn't the legislature. They try to be the judiciary but, sorry, there are more ably appointed people for such matters.

Lesser, please don't tell me that u r denying her the right to abortion. Really, as guys we should be making a bigger effort to understand what it'd be like to have an unwanted baby inside u. What a harsh reminder!! I'm not a contemptuous person but priests are beginning to make me that way.
dtaylorThreads: 15
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Joined: Sep 15, 07 		  Jun 7, 08, 11:15 /  #
The bigger problem is, that with all the delaying caused by the pro-life and church brigades, in one more week, it WILL be illegal. I wonder how much support she will get then?
SeanusThreads: 22
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Mr Tusk, take a stand!!
VaFunkooloThreads: 7
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How sad that in the 21st century some people still allow the church to influence and control their lives above all other
SeanusThreads: 22
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I wanna say 'sheep' but just can't bring myself to say it, Lemmings, that's a better way!!
dtaylorThreads: 15
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Seanus:
Lemmings


And they all also need to jump of a cliff;) :D
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