35,000 Drop In Eastern European Workers In The UK Workforce

Ja Przybylem:

I can't say that newsclips are extensive research, but from what I've read, it's spun as the British are entitled to the jobs in their own country, which is wrong.

Sorry to have generalized it.

Ja Przybylem:

I can't comment much here. Every Pole in the States is here for the opportunity to make money and to make a better life for themselves and their children. It's the general story of all immigrants. Your loyalty rests to your family.

MrBubblesThreads: 13 Posts: 768 Joined: Nov 13, 07	Edited by: MrBubbles Feb 15, 09, 19:49 / #
"The ONS statistics published on Wednesday show that there was a drop of 35,000 workers from the eight eastern Europe Member States EUA8... This is a drop of 7% of the workers from the EUA 8 compared with a drop of 0.7% in the total UK workforce.....One reason for the drop may be the poor wages paid to this group of migrant workers who may now be looking for a better deal elsewhere in the EU now that those states are open to these workers. Official ONS statistics for 2008 show that the median wage for the EUA8 was £290 per week. This compares with a median figure for the total UK workforce of £436 per week. ... Only those born in Pakistan and Bangladesh on a median of £292 per week had a similar EU8 median figure." http://www.gmb.org.uk/Templates/PressItems.asp?NodeID=98206, 13 Feb 2009 Interesting...

Ja PrzybylemThreads: - Posts: 46 Joined: Feb 11, 09	Feb 15, 09, 20:25 / #
I don't think that this comes as a shocker. It's basic economics. In pre-EU times, the dream was to come to America as it's the land of opportunity. With the formation of the EU and the declining U.S. dollar, the opportunities were closer to home. With no paperwork required to obtain entry to Great Britain (i.e., visa, etc.), they went there for work. With many of the good jobs taken by the pioneers, and with the current global recession, the opportunities in Great Britain aren't what they once were, so you move elsewhere. What baffles me is since this is a newer concept to Great Britainers (migration and jobs lost to others who want it more than they do), they target the Poles and other Eastern Europeaners with disdain. Economic migration has always been a part of mankind. Latinos do a great deal of the work that your average american would refuse to do, along with many other immigrant nationalities, yet americans quip that there are no decent jobs out there. In Great Britian, you'll have Eastern European immigrants leading the charge for half the cost to an employer. As a business owner, I'd be dumb to pay a national double the wage when an immigrant will work for half the pay but twice as hard. Just like Americans, I've heard too many stories of Great Britainers bitch about these sorts of things. Get off of your lazy behind, put your arrogance and ego aside, and become competitive as opposed to complain about what you're entitled to, which, is nothing. The marketplace always determines these things, as opposed to a socio-group.

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Feb 16, 09, 00:10 / #
Ja Przybylem: In Great Britian, you'll have Eastern European immigrants leading the charge for half the cost to an employer. The average British employee has much higher out-goings than your average migrant worker. If you have a mortgage to pay and a wife and children to support, then you need a higher income than somebody living 10 to a room. I'm sure that many British workers would drop their rates IF they could afford to do so. Ja Przybylem: Get off of your lazy behind, put your arrogance and ego aside, and become competitive as opposed to complain about what you're entitled to, which, is nothing. It's rather lazy if you ask me to label the British as all being a bunch of lazy whingers. Ja Przybylem: As a business owner, I'd be dumb to pay a national double the wage when an immigrant will work for half the pay but twice as hard. So much for loyalty to your country of residence.

Ja PrzybylemThreads: - Posts: 46 Joined: Feb 11, 09	Edited by: Ja Przybylem Feb 16, 09, 01:49 / #
Mister H: If you have a mortgage to pay and a wife and children to support, then you need a higher income than somebody living 10 to a room. True, but much of this falls on how good someone is with the money that they earn and the lifestyle that they live. My dad is a blue collar immigrant from Poland in the States. He's never come close to six figures in a single year, but his wife hasn't worked in decades, and his 4 kids had their education funded by his hard work. Our polish parents beat it into our brains since infancy that it's NEVER about how much you make - it's all about what you with it once you've earned it. You'd never guess that anyone in our family has money from the lifestyle that we live. There is 0 flash, and we all still penny pinch and brown bag. Frugality is a lifestyle. Mister H: It's rather lazy if you ask me to label the British as all being a bunch of lazy whingers. Not all. Just the ones that I read about in the news and online that talk about the influx of immigrants that are taking their jobs. This stuff happens all over the world, and isn't anything new. I can't say that newsclips are extensive research, but from what I've read, it's spun as the British are entitled to the jobs in their own country, which is wrong. Sorry to have generalized it. Mister H: So much for loyalty to your country of residence. I can't comment much here. Every Pole in the States is here for the opportunity to make money and to make a better life for themselves and their children. It's the general story of all immigrants. Your loyalty rests to your family.

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Feb 16, 09, 12:46 / #
Ja Przybylem: Frugality is a lifestyle. You have a good point there. Much of what people are experiencing now is born out of greed for a lifestyle they can neither afford nor really need. Ja Przybylem: I can't say that newsclips are extensive research, but from what I've read, it's spun as the British are entitled to the jobs in their own country, which is wrong. Sorry to have generalized it. Apology accepted, but I think that it is reasonable for someone that is British through their birth to be entitled to the CHANCE of a decent job. I don't mean anyone being owed a living, but the chance of a decent job and not being unfairly undercut by someone from somewhere else. Ja Przybylem: I can't comment much here. Every Pole in the States is here for the opportunity to make money and to make a better life for themselves and their children. It's the general story of all immigrants. Your loyalty rests to your family. From what you say, I'm assuming you are an American born citizen of Polish parents ? If that is the case, then you have a loyalty, as someone that can provide employment, to your fellow Americans. You shouldn't be dismissing them simply because it's cheaper not to give them the jobs (unless your business is on the skids). If you are Polish, but living and working in America, then I think you should have a desire to help unemployed Americans, rather than migrant workers. Migrant workers had the choice to go or stay, but those that already live in America don't always have such a choice.

Ja PrzybylemThreads: - Posts: 46 Joined: Feb 11, 09	Edited by: Ja Przybylem Feb 23, 09, 06:31 / #
Mister H: I'm assuming you are an American born citizen of Polish parents ? If that is the case, then you have a loyalty, as someone that can provide employment, to your fellow Americans. I understand what you are saying, but it's very complicated and would be a long post for me to explain, but I'll try to explain briefly. I was born in America, but I consider myself a polak - I don't consider myself to be an american. My entire childhood up until 11 was polska - my family life, the traditions, my first language is polish, I would visit family in polska every other year (still do, but not as often), my friends were all kids of polish immigrants, etc. Nothing american in my life other than grade school, but I was also in polish school every saturday. Take a town from poland and transplant it into another country (Chicago, IL, USA in this case), and this is where I was raised, and who I was among. At 11, per my mom's desire for numerous reasons that would be lengthy to explain, my family moved away from Chicago to upper-middle class suburbia. The sole reason this was done was the school system - they moved us here so we would be molded to succeed. My siblings & I, especially me, struggled with this (I'm the oldest - they were a little younger), but assimilated, and succeeded as students, making american friends, etc., and eventually in acquiring great jobs in respectable professions. After goals were met, I detached from americans after I grew up into a mature adult. My childhood came to surface and I realized who I really was. My siblings experienced a similar journey once they matured into adults. I can write a book on this matter, but I think you can understand on a high level. Again, I understand what you are saying, but my childhood, my upbringing, my feelings, etc., trump rational logic here. I was at my cousin's wedding in Poland about 7 months ago, and quite a few of the people that I were there were heading to the UK within a few months time to land a job and make some money. A few I keep in touch with via e-mail weekly. I'm a complicated bag here on this topic.

TrevekThreads: 33 Posts: 2,155 Joined: May 21, 08	Feb 23, 09, 22:52 / #
Here's something interesting.... http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1152307/Eastern-Europe-arrival s-fall-15-families-immigrant-workers-face-ban-jobs-crackdown.html?ITO= 1490

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Mar 1, 09, 12:36 / #
Ja Przybylem: I was born in America, but I consider myself a polak - I don't consider myself to be an american. Then you can't be too surprised when people have doubts about immigration. Ja Przybylem: Take a town from poland and transplant it into another country (Chicago, IL, USA in this case), and this is where I was raised, and who I was among. Wanting to live in a "Little Poland" in another country is often the reason why there is tension between communities. It's fine to want to be in touch with your culture and your roots, but take it too far and it comes across as a "two fingered salute" to the rest of us (although I'm talking from my viewpoint as someone that is British and what happens here). Ja Przybylem: After goals were met, I detached from americans after I grew up into a mature adult. And you still live in America because ? Ja Przybylem: I can write a book on this matter, You should ! Seriously ! Ja Przybylem: I'm a complicated bag here on this topic. That is what makes us all interesting. We all have a story.