No Irish Need Apply - Polish Builders get their own back

ladykangaroo:

- there isn't a single photo or even a company name which can prove that the whole story is true. No names, no details, not even a particular city being mentioned, not for even one of those signs which "started to appear". If I saw similar sign I would take a photo straightaway, even with my old mobile phone, and I'm not even a journalist.
- Polish construction sites do not advertise jobs on their hoardings, as pointed out by Wroclaw. Also the slowdown in construction industry (due to the economy but also to the winter, as many sites are at least partly closed during winter months) usually results in a temporary lay-offs for at least half of the staff. They come back to work as soon as it gets warmer, March or April. Recruiting in any form in December / January would be really strange, as there isn't much going on on the sites and as soon as the work starts in Spring the people who had already worked for the company will be available to work for it again.

moonlightThreads: 7 Posts: 115 Joined: Nov 10, 08	Jan 2, 09, 06:31 / #
Article today in the Irish Independent: [i]'No Irish need apply' - the signs are already going up on building sites abroad in the throwback to the grim days of the last century. But this time they are starting to appear in Poland as that country takes its revenge for the way in which some unscrupulous Irish contractors treated their countrymen during the years of the Celtic Tiger.[i][/i]Trade Union Official Michael Kilcoyne - also president of Consumers Assoc of Ireland - said it had recently been brought to his attention that the [/i]'No Irish' signshad appeared on a couple of Polish building sites where workers were being sought. Mr. Kilcoyne said: "The reality is that our international reputation as employers has been sullied. Many foreign people who have worked here, especially during our boom years, have had bad experiences. "The evidence of thsi is in the number of Labour Relations Commission over the last year or two in respect of unpaid wages or holiday money that was not paid. "Irelands good name as a good place to work has been badly damaged by such contractors who held onto the money of their workers." Mr. Kilcoyne revealed that he had personally won 14 such cases in Galway, while he belived there were hundreds, if not thousands, of similiar awards made countrywide against employers and in facour of non-national workers who had been short-changed. I am not surprised by this story.... I have heard a lot of disturbing stories about the way some workers have been treated.....What goes around comes around - but I think the contractors who caused this wont be the ones the suffer.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,726 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Jan 2, 09, 07:31 / #
moonlight: I think the contractors who caused this wont be the ones the suffer. I sincerely hope that these crooks (and they are crooks) are forced to pay and compensate. I think there is nothing worse than working and not being paid, especially in a foreign country, things are bad enough with the lay offs and I bet these swines are still driving their Hummers or 08' BMW's "Sorry lads, I can't afford to pay you". This unscrupulous behaviour should not be tolerated by anyone, anywhere.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Jan 2, 09, 08:09 / #
moonlight: 'No Irish need apply' - the signs are already going up on building sites abroad in the throwback to the grim days of the last century. But this time they are starting to appear in Poland as that country takes its revenge surely this is racist and illegal. what does the eu have to say regarding this?

PatGuideThreads: - Posts: 1 Joined: Jan 2, 09	Jan 2, 09, 08:13 / #
I was born in Cork, Ireland and lived in there until I was 24 when I emigrated to England. I moved back to Cork a few years agao after reading about all the work that was there. It was the biggest mistake of my life. Because my accent had changed and became a little British sounding - I couldn't get work and when I did it was on very low and even then it was a struggle to get paid. I eventually left and vowed never to return to Ireland. The whole experience gave me a whole new perspective on Ireland and my fellow countrymen and women. I can understand and appreciate what some of the Poles went through in Ireland and their position to refuse to hire Irish people. To the Irish people I say - you reap what you sow.

ladykangarooThreads: - Posts: 187 Joined: Jan 2, 09	Jan 2, 09, 09:11 / #
moonlight: But this time they are starting to appear in Poland As far as I know the only reports about such signs come from Northern Ireland and relate to Polish companies operating there. This makes the NINA signs not only illegal but also extremely far away from any form of common sense.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,726 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Edited by: SeanBM Jan 2, 09, 09:24 / #
time means: surely this is racist and illegal. Of course and Polish people as we all know work in Ireland legally and as such are/should be protected from such thievery. PatGuide: I can understand and appreciate what some of the Poles went through in Ireland and their position to refuse to hire Irish people. To the Irish people I say - you reap what you sow. I am sorry for your troubles, do you really blame all Irish people? ladykangaroo: As far as I know the only reports about such signs come from Northern Ireland and relate to Polish companies operating there. moonlight: Mr. Kilcoyne revealed that he had personally won 14 such cases in Galway, while he belived there were hundreds, if not thousands, of similiar awards made countrywide against employers and in facour of non-national workers who had been short-changed. It is clear where he is talking about and very shameful. ladykangaroo: the NINA signs not only illegal Of course it is illegal, the only thing I am having trouble with is, does this mean that Polish builders in Poland are using this sign?, it is hardly in Ireland? Here is the link

moonlightThreads: 7 Posts: 115 Joined: Nov 10, 08	Jan 2, 09, 09:53 / #
PatGuide: Because my accent had changed and became a little British sounding I understand this...I was born in UK but I have lived in Ireland since I was 2, my parents are Irish, I have an Irish passport, I dont have an english accent but I dont sound typical Irish. On a recent holiday with a group of friends and some others, my passport was stolen, when I was reporting it stolen I had to state my birth country....the look of disgust on some of my "friends" faces when I said England. I was told by some of them if they had known they would not have spoken to me. When I am out I have Irish guys speak to me in broken english because they think I am not Irish, on a couple of occassions what was said to me I would never repeat to anyone...(but this is another topic) Anyway, my point is some people are just a**holes regardless... they will be like that to whoever you are or where ever you are from. SeanBM: do you really blame all Irish people? No you cant say all Irish are the same, good and bad in all countries. I would certainly not like to be judged based on these people. SeanBM: surely this is racist and illegal. yes it is both

ArcticPaulThreads: 49 Posts: 245 Joined: Apr 7, 08	Jan 2, 09, 09:54 / #
Blazing Saddles "We'll take the niggers and the chinks but we don't want the Irish!" In my own experience I have found the Irish to be far less prejudiced than the Brits. But I've never been to Ireland so maybe I;ve only known the better types.

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Jan 2, 09, 09:55 / #
moonlight: some of my "friends" faces when I said England. I was told by some of them if they had known they would not have spoken to me. sound like a nice bunch

moonlightThreads: 7 Posts: 115 Joined: Nov 10, 08	Jan 2, 09, 10:08 / #
ArcticPaul: But I've never been to Ireland so maybe I;ve only known the better types. The Irish you meet outside Ireland are more friendly than most who live here. Its very strange.

ladykangarooThreads: - Posts: 187 Joined: Jan 2, 09	Jan 2, 09, 13:47 / #
SeanBM: Can you post the link from the Belfast Telegraph, please? http://www.mojawyspa.co.uk/artykuly/23113/Polscy-budowlancy-mowia-No-I rish http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/no-irish-need-ap ply-polish-builders-get-their-own-back-14126902.html The text is the same as Irish Independent one, as both newspapers are published by the same company, Tom O'Reilly's Independent News & Media and probably used the same source document.

Deise 07Threads: 4 Posts: 91 Joined: Jul 30, 07	Jan 2, 09, 20:36 / #
While I dont believe that this has happened (yet!) it probably will - our world has turned full circle - we're back where we started boys Its like Deja Vu all over again.... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DDGDvtOGKV4

FrankThreads: 27 Posts: 1,342 Joined: Aug 14, 06	Jan 3, 09, 08:49 / #
The old adage applies................don't believe all you read..............

HAL9009Threads: 2 Posts: 329 Joined: Mar 13, 07	Jan 3, 09, 19:15 / #
@signage Bad news and vibes tend to be exaggerated in the interests of a "good" story. Generally employees will always be exploited by a certain element of employers if the employers think they can get away with it. SeanBM: [quote=moonlight] throwback to the grim days of the last century Er think 1950s England! I look forward to the next generation of Irish/Pole mix.[/quote] Tak mówimy wszyscy - So say we all :)

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Jan 2, 09, 10:09 / #
moonlight: When I am out I have Irish guys speak to me in broken english because they think I am not Irish, What the hell do they think you are? As for "broken English" I have yet to meet an Irish person whose English is less than perfect... moonlight: the look of disgust on some of my "friends" faces when I said England. I was told by some of them if they had known they would not have spoken to me. I also find that strange - I have Irish friends and have visited Ireland, never had a problem...these people you went on holiday with are retards... I think it's pretty disgusting if these signs are going up in Poland - Im sure the marjoirty of the millions of Poles that came to Ireland over the last few years have been treated fairly - sounds like an excuse to keep jobs for Polish people only!!!

time meansThreads: 9 Posts: 2,306 Joined: Apr 21, 08	Jan 2, 09, 10:12 / #
ShelleyS: sounds like an excuse to keep jobs for Polish people only!!! a very good point. how would the poles have treated such a large influx of people if the boot was on the other foot?

Grzegorz_Threads: 81 Posts: 6,213 Joined: Nov 16, 06	Jan 2, 09, 10:50 / #
moonlight: But this time they are starting to appear in Poland as that country takes its revenge for the way in which some unscrupulous Irish contractors This is some nonsense... which Irish construction worker would like to work in Poland anyway ?

WroclawThreads: 77 Posts: 7,404 Joined: Apr 1, 06 [Moderator]	Jan 2, 09, 11:00 / #
moonlight: 'No Irish need apply' - the signs are already going up on building sites abroad in the throwback to the grim days of the last century. I've never seen a sign at or near a building site in Poland that offers work. The only sign I've seen, which is always yellow, shows: main investor, emergency numbers etc. I have to agree with Grzegorz_ too.

Wroclaw Boy	Jan 2, 09, 11:54 / #
ArcticPaul: "We'll take the niggers and the chinks but we don't want the Irish!" LOL, no offence to Irish people but that cracked me up.

ladykangarooThreads: - Posts: 187 Joined: Jan 2, 09	Edited by: ladykangaroo Jan 2, 09, 13:13 / #
SeanBM: Here is the link Having googled a bit I must say that it was probably my mistake. The first site I saw the information on was mojawyspa.co.uk quoting Belfast Telegraph. As mojawyspa generally covers UK / Ireland stories only I assumed that was also the case. Apparently not. However I still would like to point a couple of things: - there isn't a single photo or even a company name which can prove that the whole story is true. No names, no details, not even a particular city being mentioned, not for even one of those signs which "started to appear". If I saw similar sign I would take a photo straightaway, even with my old mobile phone, and I'm not even a journalist. - Polish construction sites do not advertise jobs on their hoardings, as pointed out by Wroclaw. Also the slowdown in construction industry (due to the economy but also to the winter, as many sites are at least partly closed during winter months) usually results in a temporary lay-offs for at least half of the staff. They come back to work as soon as it gets warmer, March or April. Recruiting in any form in December / January would be really strange, as there isn't much going on on the sites and as soon as the work starts in Spring the people who had already worked for the company will be available to work for it again. ShelleyS: sounds like an excuse to keep jobs for Polish people only!!! Yes. And for all these Belarusians, Ukrainians, Russians, Vietnamese and Chinese who are already there and are expected in 2009 :D

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,726 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Edited by: SeanBM Jan 2, 09, 13:26 / #
ladykangaroo: - there isn't a single photo or even a company name which can prove that the whole story is true. No names, no details, not even a particular city being mentioned, not for even one of those signs which "started to appear". If I saw similar sign I would take a photo straightaway, even with my old mobile phone, and I'm not even a journalist. - Polish construction sites do not advertise jobs on their hoardings, as pointed out by Wroclaw. Also the slowdown in construction industry (due to the economy but also to the winter, as many sites are at least partly closed during winter months) usually results in a temporary lay-offs for at least half of the staff. They come back to work as soon as it gets warmer, March or April. Recruiting in any form in December / January would be really strange, as there isn't much going on on the sites and as soon as the work starts in Spring the people who had already worked for the company will be available to work for it again. Good points. Can you post the link from the Belfast Telegraph, please? I think your quires warrant more investigation. Also why would Polish builders have a sign (presumably in Polish) on a Polish building site for Irish people? There is not that many of us here. I am sure this type of thing has gone on, I just find it difficult to believe that so many people had their rights violated.

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Jan 2, 09, 15:01 / #
You can see the logic in a country trying to look after their own first, something the UK never seem to do. I would never condone the "no (insert unwanted foreigners here) need apply" approach, but I can understand it if that makes sense.

FlynnerThreads: 1 Posts: 1 Joined: Jan 2, 09	Jan 2, 09, 15:20 / #
I was working a bit of construction last summer and I noticed all the Polskis work much harder than the Irish. They never stop either I'd be there at 8 and go home at 4:30 but these lads were in before me and out after me.

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Jan 3, 09, 06:27 / #
Flynner: I was working a bit of construction last summer and I noticed all the Polskis work much harder than the Irish. They never stop either I'd be there at 8 and go home at 4:30 but these lads were in before me and out after me. Was this in Poland ? Deise 07: While I dont believe that this has happened (yet!) it probably will - our world has turned full circle - we're back where we started boys Its like Deja Vu all over again.... We reap what we sow.

SeanBMThreads: 41 Posts: 8,726 Joined: Mar 10, 08	Jan 3, 09, 06:51 / #
ladykangaroo: The text is the same as Irish Independent one, as both newspapers are published by the same company, Tom O'Reilly's Independent News & Media and probably used the same source document. How can we clarify these accusations?. I am not saying that an Irish person would not do such a thing and that a Polish person wouldn't stick up such a sign but I don't believe it is happening as much as they are suggesting. Flynner: Polskis work much harder than the Irish. I have noticed how lazy Irish people have become, this is a very new phenomena, Irish people used to work very hard in tough conditions. I thought that was one of the reason Irish and Polish got on well or at least why we respect them. Deise 07: Its like Deja Vu all over again.... I think many many Irish songs could be translated into Polish. In so many ways the Poles are the same as the Irish. Missing you Mister H: We reap what we sow. Very true. I have lived in Poland on and off for 6 years and since the Poles have legally been allowed to work in Ireland I have been constantly inquiring about how the Poles are treated in Ireland. My friends and family have been telling me that they are great. Then I started thinking that they might just be saying that because I live here and they are polite but most of them have been here and all of them loved it, a few of them have learned a fair amount (well past "hello,goodbye, thank you") in Polish and all of them have Polish friends. The Poles are known for thier work ethic and not complaining, saving money and sending it back home. These are all things Irish people have done for century's. The only negative thing I could find was that in the tabloids Poles are being blamed (more than neccasay) for car accidents, which is ridiculious because in Ireland you do NOT need a full licence to drive on the road. I have been very well treated and received by Polish people here in Poland. And i sincerely hope that most Polish people can say the same back in Ireland. I see that in some ways this forum is like a tabloid, we love to see the worst and talk things down. I would love to hear the success stories but these times in Ireland are hard, so I think there will be less success stories and more people being laid off. The only plus side is that Ireland and Poland have met and nobody can change that, I look forward to the next generation of Irish/Pole mix.

JethroThreads: 1 Posts: 61 Joined: Dec 18, 08	Jan 4, 09, 06:14 / #
ShelleyS: What the hell do they think you are? As for "broken English" I have yet to meet an Irish person whose English is less than perfect... LOL! I never met one that I could understand. Fecking,Acting the maggot,Eijit,Eat the head off,Jacks,Stocious. WTF?

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,158 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Jan 4, 09, 06:29 / #
English evolves, Jethro (I'm listening to Jethro Tull, you're not Ian Anderson, are you?). Gotta get used to it. The Irish are easy to understand for me. No Irish Need Apply, that's blatant discrimination. I can't imagine many Irish workers wanting to work here but, who knows, builders are actually paid reasonably here. In relative terms, in some places, very handsomely indeed. I know from discussions and answers to Callan Method questions.

JethroThreads: 1 Posts: 61 Joined: Dec 18, 08	Jan 4, 09, 06:43 / #
Irish racism is nothing new. I just googled this. Free land did not lure them. They rejected the land for the land had rejected them; yet even so they always spoke reverently of the old sod in Ireland. All major cities had their "Irish Town" or "Shanty Town" where the Irish clung together. Our immigrant ancestors were not wanted in America. Ads for employment often were followed by "NO IRISH NEED APPLY." They were forced to live in cellars and shanties, partly because of poverty but also because they were considered bad for the neighborhood...they were unfamiliar with plumbing and running water. These living conditions bred sickness and early death. It was estimated that 80% of all infants born to Irish immigrants in New York City died. Their brogue and dress provoked ridicule; their poverty and illiteracy provoked scorn. The Chicago Post wrote, "The Irish fill our prisons, our poor houses...Scratch a convict or a pauper, and the chances are that you tickle the skin of an Irish Catholic. Putting them on a boat and sending them home would end crime in this country."

HAL9009Threads: 2 Posts: 329 Joined: Mar 13, 07	Jan 4, 09, 18:25 / #
Yes, the Irish tended to be regarded as somewhat disposable, like many other groups.

ArcticPaulThreads: 49 Posts: 245 Joined: Apr 7, 08	Jan 5, 09, 10:46 / #
Grzegorz_: which Irish construction worker would like to work in Poland anyway ? When I did a two week Polish language course in Krakow, last October, one of the students was an Irish construction worker/investor who had moved from Ireland to UK to Poland. He seemed to believe that the investment of money plus time, sweat and know-how would yeild healthier returns in Poland than he was now expecting in UK or Ireland. He was a great guy but he really struggled to make progress with the Polish. Stayed the entire length of the course and just kept trying. Tenacity.