Poles claim UK benefits after working only one year instead of going home

tretos:

You know what sucks ?

I am Polish living in the UK, working here 3 years. Now get redundant and I got the job now, however, I was claiming JBA for 2 months and what they said at the end ?
You are not entitled to Income Based JBA. This is because we have decided that you do not meet the requirements for the right to reside test and therefore for benefit purposes you are not considered to be habitually resident in the uk...

Kasia501:

All the Polish people I know are hard working and their rate of pay is quite low, some can claim child benefit and do so for children back home in Poland.

VerbaVeritatis:

You should be happy about our presence in UK, we are actually fighting your recession.

time means:

Having worked here for three years you have contributed in taxes a lot more than quite a few, indeed a lot of indigenous people i know.

VerbaVeritatisThreads: - Posts: 26 Joined: Apr 15, 09	Apr 15, 09, 19:54 / #
glaswegians: British people have been paying national insurance for their whole lives, polish newcomers pay a pittance and ride out the recession on the british tax payers expense I don't think so. I'm actually spending money shopping here (my own POLISH money), my boyfriend pays taxes here, we don't use our rights to take benefits even if we are entitled to. We are both young and heathy and if we catch a cold we buy aspirin in Tesco, lol, so we don't consume your public services AT ALL. Most Poles here are healthy, young and hard-working, that's why they came here: TO WORK not to claim benefits !!! And that probably goes for the majority of us. You should be happy about our presence in UK, we are actually fighting your recession.

derek trotterThreads: 12 Posts: 252 Joined: Apr 10, 09	Apr 15, 09, 21:00 / #
tretos: You are not entitled to Income Based JBA. This is because we have decided that you do not meet the requirements for the right to reside test and therefore for benefit purposes you are not considered to be habitually resident in the uk... wow !!! You definitely can go with this case to the EU court then

IronsE11Threads: 2 Posts: 799 Joined: Mar 3, 08	Edited by: IronsE11 Apr 15, 09, 21:53 / #
Tretos Did you register to work in the UK?

eddie61Threads: - Posts: 2 Joined: Apr 16, 09	Apr 16, 09, 03:05 / #
I for one must stand up for the Poles who came to Ireland looking for work, yes they got work in the construction industry, but their wives, sisters took meanial tasks in cleaning industry which my fellow Irishmen/women decided was below there standards. Granted that the Child Benefit system here being paid to those fathers who were working here at a rate nearly nine times the money the mother was receiving in Poland..That was one EU law that should have been looked at more closely...I think Polish women are totally gorgeous and stunningly beautiful..I love the name Beata

freebirdThreads: 3 Posts: 638 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Apr 16, 09, 04:33 / #
PolskaDoll: The UK also invests in who they hope will be the future of the country No one else will love your country more than your own people. This applies to all countries not just UK and that's why I wouldn't expect too much from foreigners. If I decide to live in another country, I will respect it, pay my taxes etc. but not love it enough to give a damn about the future of that country. OK maybe as long as I live but that's about it.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Apr 16, 09, 10:28 / #
freebird: No one else will love your country more than your own people. This applies to all countries not just UK and that's why I wouldn't expect too much from foreigners. If I decide to live in another country, I will respect it, pay my taxes etc. but not love it enough to give a damn about the future of that country. OK maybe as long as I live but that's about it. Whats about USA why dont you talk about something you are familiar with? because of that kind of approch Yanks are not liked much.

Kasia501Threads: - Posts: 1 Joined: Apr 16, 09	Apr 16, 09, 12:18 / #
There are people of all nationalities abusing the system. I don't agree with it, but I can see how it happens. There are plenty of british people claiming disability for faked illnesses and getting away with not working, or working on the side whilst claiming benefits. There are plenty of Pakistani's and Africans claiming for kids they don't actually have. It's up to the government to curb the rules, but with the EU continually setting the laws in our own country it is difficult. All the Polish people I know are hard working and their rate of pay is quite low, some can claim child benefit and do so for children back home in Poland. You have to look at it this way, if life was good in Poland, (money wise, job wise) then they'd all be over there, working. Instead some have to spend their lives apart from their children to make a better life for them. I would die without my children. I'm sure I would have done the same in similar circumstances. So Polish people can claim benefits, so can a lot of other people too, and is it their fault or is it part of EU rules?

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Apr 16, 09, 12:32 / #
fabryka: They do this by employing migrant labour to keep industry afloat Not really, we don't have much in the way of industry or are you talking about the "service" industry? Which historically was serviced by students, we would find a way to manage, the country functioned before all the A8 countries joined the EU, I suspect we would manage if they were not here. I dont mean that to sound harsh but it's a fact. wiesiek: Glaswegians are you noimmigration in disguse ? God, you're quick ;0) wiesiek: Below is a picture from London a couple of weeks ago it is about Britons protesting. Ask yourself if Poles are the problem Actually it was a couple of years ago, the photos have been re-circulated. time means: indeed a lot of indigenous people i know. All my friends work and pay a lot of tax and NI and have done for many years...so don't give me that **** with the "lots" of indigenous people are lazy blah blah blah...... VerbaVeritatis: we are actually fighting your recession. How? By losing menial jobs and claiming JSA and all the other benefits you can? derek trotter: You definitely can go with this case to the EU court then He can't go anywhere, they make the rules up as they go along, it's a down to how they feel on the day, there will always be a "good" excuse to why they didn't pay him.

VerbaVeritatisThreads: - Posts: 26 Joined: Apr 15, 09	Apr 16, 09, 14:12 / #
ShelleyS: VerbaVeritatis: we are actually fighting your recession. How? By losing menial jobs and claiming JSA and all the other benefits you can? I'm not working here dear ShelleyS :) I have a family business in Poland and right now, I'm spending money earned in Poland in the UK. I came here to be with my boyfriend who is working on contract as a software programmer. And NO - he didn't come here because he couldn't find proper work in Poland. He came here to polish his English and to take part in an interesting project. We both have master degree and our families are quite well off so we don't send any money to Poland. I think we make considerable contibution to your economy (in cash, taxes and skills) instead. We're not claiming any benefits in the UK, we are not beggars. I have my proud, I wouldn't claim benefits even if I could. I'd rather work my ass off than do so. I have many Polish friends working here in the UK and every one of them pay taxes and have a decent job (IT sector). Do you really think every Polish person here sweep streets??? Hmmm, NO they don't ! They pay taxes, spend money here etc. Sounds better?

szarlotkaThreads: 14 Posts: 3,340 Joined: Feb 20, 07	Apr 16, 09, 14:17 / #
VerbaVeritatis: They pay taxes, spend money here etc. Sounds better? Ah the words of truth. In my professional life the Poles I have met, and worked with, certainly fit this bill. Maybe some Poles abuse our benefits system but not the ones I know.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Apr 16, 09, 14:23 / #
I think, to be honest, that it was the initial wave in the immediate aftermath of May 2004's accession to the EU that lured the turnips to the UK. Thereafter, a more diverse crowd flocked across and occupied different positions.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Apr 16, 09, 14:36 / #
Exactly, Mister H. There are horror stories about unpaid returns on years of NI contributory payments. The British government has stuffed up quite a few cases where legitimate claims were made a hash of. This is why I was loathe to give them anything, I see no tangible gains. About the allowance, quite right too. I was made to furnish newspaper clippings and websites of places I had contacted. I felt quite silly being 3 times as qualified as the clerk. To hell with begging! Nothing is given on a plate these days (well, only to top brass schysters). On the third point, very true. The expression of the century was 'voodoo economics' by plk123. Superb!! Many Poles are up-to-their-eyeballs in debt. On the dole? Well, I don't know about that but you seem to be privy to that kind of info, Mister H, so I'll bow down to that. Finally, proportionality is a fine idea but it doesn't always work in practice.

szarlotkaThreads: 14 Posts: 3,340 Joined: Feb 20, 07	Apr 16, 09, 14:51 / #
firkegaard: Or maybe it's the incompetent representatives elected in a democratic process? Lol, The trouble with democracy is that any old looney can stand for election and with voter apathy only has to secure about 25 votes to be elected. There are hundreds of examples in the House of Commons. Benign dictatorship seems attractive at times.

fred_chopin	Apr 16, 09, 14:54 / #
szarlotka: Benign dictatorship seems attractive at times. Who gets to choose the dictator though?

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Apr 16, 09, 14:24 / #
tretos: You know what sucks ? I am Polish living in the UK, working here 3 years. Now get redundant and I got the job now, however, I was claiming JBA for 2 months and what they said at the end ? You are not entitled to Income Based JBA. This is because we have decided that you do not meet the requirements for the right to reside test and therefore for benefit purposes you are not considered to be habitually resident in the uk... You got benefits after only working here for three years - think yourself lucky that you got anything at all. Some people have lived and worked here all their lives and get told that they don't meet various requirements for this, that and the other. Be grateful for what you did get. Kasia501: All the Polish people I know are hard working and their rate of pay is quite low, some can claim child benefit and do so for children back home in Poland. That's a joke. It's a choice to come here, maybe not an easy one, but a choice nonetheless and we shouldn't be paying for their children too - whether they are here or not. When will people realise that at this rate, there will be no money left. What will people do then ? VerbaVeritatis: You should be happy about our presence in UK, we are actually fighting your recession. How do you work that out ? I work with very few Polish people (very few foreigners at all in fact) with the majority of people I work with being British born people. I work for a bank in collections and most of the customers I seem to speak to that are all up to their eyeballs in debt and on the dole are foreign - and yes, many are Polish. time means: Having worked here for three years you have contributed in taxes a lot more than quite a few, indeed a lot of indigenous people i know. That's always thrown around. I work with mainly British people and we pay plenty of tax and I've been paying tax for almost 20 years. If you want to make this into a competition, come back when you have been paying UK tax and NI in at least another 10 years or so.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Apr 16, 09, 14:24 / #
ShelleyS: How? By losing menial jobs and claiming JSA and all the other benefits you can? Well two of my friends invested about 20.000 £ each and opened sucesfull bisnesses there ...and they are not only ones.

firkegaardThreads: - Posts: 16 Joined: Mar 30, 09	Apr 16, 09, 14:45 / #
Is it the Poles who make law in Britain?? Or maybe it's the incompetent representatives elected in a democratic process? I think its the later ( the same here in Poland :) )

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Apr 16, 09, 14:49 / #
Seanus: I think, to be honest, that it was the initial wave in the immediate aftermath of May 2004's accession to the EU that lured the turnips to the UK. Thereafter, a more diverse crowd flocked across and occupied different positions. I think that the age-old issue of money and class as a lot to do with how and where people end up when they move to another country looking for this much talked about "better life". Someone with some cash and a good education behind them, that has been able to learn a decent amount of English to land themselves a decent job is often going to do better than someone that hasn't. The bank I work for employs quite a few foreigners largely down to the fact that their native language will help in dealing with the huge numbers of customers that can barely say their address in English. It's their ability to communicate in both English and their mother-tongue that has got them a decent job with some prospects. It's sad that part of their job involves speaking to their fellow countrymen that have barely a penny to their name and having to explain how the credit card that they have been carrying around really works and why they are up to their necks in the brown stuff. Poorly managed immigration has created an immigrant under-class and these people are probably those that would often have had sod all anyway. They just have nothing here instead of where they came from. Those that make it, make it because they had the education to give them a fighting chance.

firkegaardThreads: - Posts: 16 Joined: Mar 30, 09	Apr 16, 09, 14:59 / #
fred_chopin: Who gets to choose the dictator though? You don't choose dictators nor kings. They become rulers themselves.

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Apr 16, 09, 15:11 / #
VerbaVeritatis: And NO - he didn't come here because he couldn't find proper work in Poland. Okay if you say so, it's funny that most of the poles that have good jobs that I know left Poland because they were sick of the low wages. Ironside: Well two of my friends invested about 20.000 £ each and opened sucesfull bisnesses there ...and they are not only ones. Yeah because everyone has £20k to spare... ;0)

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Apr 16, 09, 15:15 / #
Seanus: Many Poles are up-to-their-eyeballs in debt. On the dole? Well, I don't know about that but you seem to be privy to that kind of info, Mister H, so I'll bow down to that. Yes, I'm afraid so although obviously it's not purely down to one specific nationality, but it's very common these days for people whose English is pretty basic to be offered credit cards, loans and overdrafts, without really understanding what they are taking on. How do you explain that a credit card cash advance is one of the worst ways to borrow money to someone that doesn't speak the same language ? I think at some stage banks were told not to allow such people to have anything other than a basic bank account so that they can be paid and have direct debits. Somewhere along the line, that has been totally ignored and banks have been throwing credit at people like the Polish and not really being interested in any consequences. I work in the department where we pick up the pieces because they can't pay. They don't owe a few hundred, they all owe thousands, some tens of thousands and when you consider that a good proportion (maybe as much as 35-40%) of the people I deal with are from the "New EU", it's safe to say that this is a big problem. I think that many Polish people that stay here are trapped here in a spiral of debt, the work has dried up and all that's left is the dole queue.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Apr 16, 09, 15:22 / #
It's rather sad to see as they get free education in Poland. It's this over-exaggerated sense of self-worth that compounds the problem. I see Brits paying back course fees, usually English due to the system there, over a number of years. They have an excuse but some Poles? Many brag about their education but it gets shallow when nothing follows. Many of my Polish friends say the same. Western prices but Polish wages :(

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Edited by: Ironside Apr 16, 09, 15:27 / #
Mister H: That's always thrown around. I work with mainly British people and we pay plenty of tax and I've been paying tax for almost 20 years. If you want to make this into a competition, come back when you have been paying UK tax and NI in at least another 10 years or so. what do you want a medal?All people I known are paying taxes. My greatparents and parents were paying taxes whats it has to do with anything? You have been paying tax for almost 20 years very good Mr H buy do you have children? are you saying that you never or your children have used public servises? Secondly what foreigners can do about the rules in YOUR country are you saying that they should take over your government? Its your country if you dont like the way your government is working do something. Sure is easier ranting about f* foreigners than take control of your own government. Working for bank? are you bowing to the bosses who screw all? saying yes sir thank you sir? Too scared to blame the bosses, too busy to do something, find scapegoat that easy and who is perfect scapegoat - f* foreigners.

ShelleySThreads: 18 Posts: 3,647 Joined: Jun 26, 07	Apr 16, 09, 15:28 / #
Mister H: I think that many Polish people that stay here are trapped here in a spiral of debt, the work has dried up and all that's left is the dole queue. Actually they do have an option, they can go home, that's not an option for your average Brit with family and a mortgage!

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Apr 16, 09, 15:39 / #
ShelleyS: Yeah because everyone has £20k to spare... ;0) Whatever Ironside: Well two of my friends invested about 20.000 £ each and opened sucesfull bisnesses there ...and they are not only ones. Its true

freebirdThreads: 3 Posts: 638 Joined: Jun 8, 07	Edited by: freebird Apr 16, 09, 15:48 / #
Ironside: Whats about USA why dont you talk about something you are familiar with? because of that kind of approch Yanks are not liked much. Maybe you misunderstood what I was trying to express. Talking about love to your own country, I meant that I wouldn't do many things for another country that I would do for my own like for example to go to the war and risk my life, pay more taxes if needed (if I lived somewhere else and that would happen I would just go back home), to make it short, I wouldn't sacrifice as much as I would for the USA. If you feel different about your own country then I guess, I must be wrong about Brits and their point of view to this subject.

Mister HThreads: 11 Posts: 845 Joined: Jan 4, 08	Edited by: Mister H Apr 16, 09, 15:49 / #
Ironside: what do you want a medal?All people I known are paying taxes. My greatparents and parents were paying taxes whats it has to do with anything? I'm just trying to put it into context when people start saying "I've been paying tax for two years and therefore I'm entitled to......." Bollux are they entitled. It should be based upon what you've paid in and a couple of years is nothing. Ironside: Secondly what foreigners can do about the rules in YOUR country are you saying that they should take over your government? Its your country if you dont like the way your government is working do something. Sure is easier ranting about f* foreigners than take control of your own government. scapegoats. There is little we can do apart from elect a different Government, which will probably do nothing different. I'm not ranting. Ironside: Working for bank? are you bowing to the bosses who screw all? saying yes sir thank you sir? Too scared to blame the bosses, too busy to do something, find scapegoat that easy and who is perfect scapegoat - f* foreigners. I keep my head down and I get on with my job. Have you ever worked for a big corporate giant ? If not, then you won't appreciate the fact that it's a very hard place to be critical of anything, even when justified. It's just not worth the aggro you get in return. I don't scapegoat anyone, I merely state the facts as I see them and the facts are that a lot of foreigners are in deep sh!t when it comes to debt. ShelleyS: Actually they do have an option, they can go home, that's not an option for your average Brit with family and a mortgage! I doubt that many can afford the plane ticket now and those that can have done a bunk and left a trail of unpaid bills.

fred_chopin	Apr 16, 09, 15:54 / #
Mister H: Bollux are they entitled. It should be based upon what you've paid in and a couple of years is nothing. So, if a young UK born lad graduates from University, works for lets say... 2 years, and finds himself a victim of the economy, he shouldn't be entitled to benefits. After all, only two years of "paying in" to the system doesn't really count.

SeanusThreads: 22 Posts: 30,160 Joined: Dec 25, 07	Apr 16, 09, 15:55 / #
Plus, there were those who russled up the funds to go home and were met with a wall of disappointment. They needed help from their families to look afresh in the UK.

IronsideThreads: 56 Posts: 6,196 Joined: Feb 26, 09	Edited by: Ironside Apr 16, 09, 15:56 / #
Mister H: Bollux are they entitled. It should be based upon what you've paid in and a couple of years is nothing. I agree it should but..... Mister H: I'm not ranting. ImSorry Mister H: I keep my head down and I get on with my job. Have you ever worked for a big corporate giant ? If not, then you won't appreciate the fact that it's a very hard place to be critical of anything, even when justified. It's just not worth the aggro you get in return. I know its not easy